Locker room issues?

[Northeast Stinger]

Clemson, uga, Ole Miss, Miami, and UNC have better talent than us- UCF is a better program - That leaves 6 games vs teams with equal or lesser talent on the schedule. 6 wins would be a step in the right direction

6 wins would have been a step in the right direction in 2021.

I think UNC and Miami are rebuilding this year and we seem to play them closely or beat them almost every year.

But by year four we should not be nitpicking our opponents. It’s supposed to be about our having gotten much better. We can’t be getting better if we keep explaining why we are supposed to lose a bunch of games. We should even expect us to be competitive against the best opponents on our schedule.

 

[Madison Grant]

Clemson, uga, Ole Miss, Miami, and UNC have better talent than us- UCF is a better program - That leaves 6 games vs teams with equal or lesser talent on the schedule. 6 wins would be a step in the right direction

UNC had better talent than us this year, and we beat them. Miami and Clemson were games we could have won. We've beaten Miami when they had better talent in the past. Also, I don't know how you can say UCF is a better program than us, and not say Pitt is too. Pitt accomplished more than UCF this year.

 

[Oakland]

In yesterday's Locked On podcast that Byrce Koon does he talked a lot about issues with players (primarily from CPJ recruits but some CGC recruits) not being bought in and causing major issues in the locker room. He also mentioned that most if not all the guys that were not bought in have now left the program.

If this is the case, which Bryce seems to be certain is it, then that likely contributed to many of the issues we had last year especially on D. I felt like most of the defensive play calls were not bad but broke down cause of miscommunication or players being out of position. If the players don't believe/trust in the coaching staff then they will likely do their own thing and end up out of position.

Thought I would start this thread to see what others thought about Bryce's comments and also to see if anyone here had any further insights into what is/was actually going on. Please don't turn this into a CPJ vs CGC or Fire CGC debate. The focus is more on the player dynamic not the coaches.

Is this a podcast that you have to pay for or can I hear it for free? I don't recall if I've heard the reporter ask questions during CGC pre and post game interviews. Maybe he does.

 

[slugboy]

Don't understand how 6 wins is the magic number many are throwing around with respect to win total for CGC staying.

6 is a joke, it's garbage. This will be year 4, a 6 will year is a fire-able offense after 3 years of 3 wins.

TL;DR: 6 wins isn't a perfect goal to judge by, but it's close enough for most purposes.

The question to answer now and especially in 2023 is "can Collins get this program turned towards growth and improvement and being a perennially top-tier team?". The 6 wins goal is a proxy.

At the end of the year, if we win 5 games, but it's apparent to anyone with a pulse that we're going to compete for a title in 2023 and that Collins has the program headed in the right direction, then Collins is staying. If we win 7 games but 2023 doesn't look like it will be a step up from 2022, then 6-win-goal or not it's still time to make a change.

We're discussing locker room culture in this thread. It's almost all speculation. I'm not sure what insight Bryce Koon has. If you're in the AA and you see the players walking in and out on a daily basis, you should be able to tell if they have their heads on straight, if they're go-getters on the field and in the classroom, if they have an entitled attitude, and so forth. You can do some "management by walking around".

Six wins and making a bowl is important, but it'd be foolish to abandon the rest of your judgment.

Is this a podcast that you have to pay for or can I hear it for free? I don't recall if I've heard the reporter ask questions during CGC pre and post game interviews. Maybe he does.

"LockedOn" podcasts are free.

 

[CEB]

But by year four we should not be nitpicking our opponents. It’s supposed to be about our having gotten much better. We can’t be getting better if we keep explaining why we are supposed to lose a bunch of games. We should even expect us to be competitive against the best opponents on our schedule.

Right here. Take away our bias and look at how we stack up. 12 of 13 teams in our conference are flat out better than we are by objective results. They are winning more games and finishing ahead of us. We’re going to have to beat those people if we are a better / improving team. This is why you can’t put a number on acceptable wins.
Someone also posted that 10 ACC teams had 6 wins last season. How many of those teams would’ve had losing records and missed a bowl if we didn’t spot them a win? Just saying; we have a pretty big say in how good a lot of these teams look on paper.

 

[4shotB]

Coaches can be wrong about who should play, and most coaches make a lot of mistakes about who they should play, but they usually just play it straight and put the player out there that they think gives them the best chance to win. The family you know has a better insight into the locker room than I do, but from the cheap seats where I am I’d wager that CGC isn’t playing 9-dimensional chess—he’s just playing the players that he thinks will give him the best team now.

I think the transfer portal sort of verifies this, both for GT and college FB in general. Look at transfer portal data overall. The transfers like Joe Burrows, Jalen Hurts and Jamhyr Giggs get the headlines but the data suggests most of these guys fade into oblivion. I saw a post or article on another Tech site that tracked recent GT transfers and most of these guys are NOT really making an impact or if they are, it is down a level. The conclusion that I have come to from this data is that, for the most part, if you are second string at any school, there is a reason for that. Notable excpetions being the guys like Burrows when he was at OSU or Hurts when he was at Bama. Those guys were second string behind first round NFL draft picks. I think our incoming transfers these last few years have also supported this. We have not seen anyone perform higher than what we had expected. In fact, a few of them have NOT been what we had expected although injuries may have been an issue. I am hoping that the two incoming OL from Bama and Clemson happen to be guys who were trapped behind NFL talent. But history doesn't support this hope,

The TL;DR version - when it comes to who plays and who doesn't, I trust the people with skin in the game (coaches) over fans, parents and the media.

 

[bobongo]

At the end of the year, if we win 5 games, but it's apparent to anyone with a pulse that we're going to compete for a title in 2023 and that Collins has the program headed in the right direction, then Collins is staying.

I think it's possible but highly unlikely that very many circumstantial 5 win-seasons are going to persuade either fans or the Big Money that we're going to compete for any titles in 2023. Also, the guy would be in his 4th year and still losing? There's a time element involved here.

Six, absolute bare minimum. The time for excuses has passed and the time for winning is nigh. I hope he makes it to six and beyond, but six is a hard number for me (FWIW).

 

[bobongo]

6 wins would have been a step in the right direction in 2021.

I think UNC and Miami are rebuilding this year and we seem to play them closely or beat them almost every year.

But by year four we should not be nitpicking our opponents. It’s supposed to be about our having gotten much better. We can’t be getting better if we keep explaining why we are supposed to lose a bunch of games. We should even expect us to be competitive against the best opponents on our schedule.

The schedule is reasonably rigorous, but not overly so, on the whole. It only looks that way from the vantage point of a three-win team.

 

[roadkill]

The schedule is reasonably rigorous, but not overly so, on the whole. It only looks that way from the vantage point of a three-win team.

Folks, there is another 343-page thread to discuss the minimum number of wins needed to keep or fire CGC. I was interested in the discussion around this thread's title. Oh well.

 

[CEB]

Folks, there is another 343-page thread to discuss the minimum number of wins needed to keep or fire CGC. I was interested in the discussion around this thread's title. Oh well.

We already tackled the locker room issues... take a look back a couple pages. Now we’re on to cocktails and current events. But by all means, please raise another locker room issue and we’ll get back to work.

 

[4shotB]

We already tackled the locker room issues...

We did but it was still 5 pages. If the first two or three posters (at maximum) would wrap up when they tackle an issue, there wouldn't be as many PAC's (posts after contact). What is it about GT that prevents us from being good tacklers? It starts while we are in school apparently.

 

[CEB]

We did but it was still 5 pages. If the first two or three posters (at maximum) would wrap up when they tackle an issue, there wouldn't be as many PAC's (posts after contact). What is it about GT that prevents us from being good tacklers? It starts while we are in school apparently.

We’re not good enough yet to tackle these issues 1 on 1. We have to “swarm” and gang tackle. I guess I’d rather risk some late hits than have guys pull up before the whistle...

 

[bobongo]

I don't know whether the initial claim of locker room dissension is accurate, but one thing I do know is that Collins' attitude toward the previous regime could certainly cause or exacerbate resentment among the old guard. I've seen this at work in the workplace. A good manager knows that it costs nothing to treat the outgoing administration with respect. I'm sure Collins tried to do this in his way, but he came off as haughty and condescending. It's a sure-fire recipe for discontent.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

We’re not good enough yet to tackle these issues 1 on 1. We have to “swarm” and gang tackle. I guess I’d rather risk some late hits than have guys pull up before the whistle...

 

[CEB]

I don't know whether the initial claim of locker room dissension is accurate, but one thing I do know is that Collins' attitude toward the previous regime could certainly cause or exacerbate resentment among the old guard. I've seen this at work in the workplace. A good manager knows that it costs nothing to treat the outgoing administration with respect. I'm sure Collins tried to do this in his way, but he came off as haughty and condescending. It's a sure-fire recipe for discontent.

See... ref let it go and he’s streaking down the sideline. They’re not gonna get him... replay will show that he was on top of a defender and the knee never touched. Play to the whistle!

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I don't know whether the initial claim of locker room dissension is accurate, but one thing I do know is that Collins' attitude toward the previous regime could certainly cause or exacerbate resentment among the old guard. I've seen this at work in the workplace. A good manager knows that it costs nothing to treat the outgoing administration with respect. I'm sure Collins tried to do this in his way, but he came off as haughty and condescending. It's a sure-fire recipe for discontent.

Well, he absolutely ragged on the offensive linemen and some other players that didn’t have the right “juice.” Problem was he needed those players as starters. From the get go it seemed to me to be a strange way to build support for the program.

 

[bobongo]

Well, he absolutely ragged on the offensive linemen and some other players that didn’t have the right “juice.” Problem was he needed those players as starters. From the get go it seemed to me to be a strange way to build support for the program.

Yeah, not smart. Not smart at all. And it smacks of some kind of built-in excuse out of the gate.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I agree with the idea of your post as laid out in the last sentence but not sure Urban Meyer is a good model for how a coach should act. Sure he had a decent amount of success on the field but his programs were (and still are) surrounded by off the field issues and some serious allegations of misconduct.

Sure, but that was with the benefit of hindsight. Now he is admittedly about one step above, say, Hugh Freeze but then he was the most coveted, sought after coach in the game with a pristine reputation when he left Utah for Florida. Why do you think Florida AD Jeremy Foley went ahead and fired the hapless Ron Zook in midseason after he had the temerity to lose to Mississippi State? Zook's plane had no sooner left Starkville, and Foley had the wheels turning to get rid of him. It's a tough business.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

10 teams in the ACC this year won 6 games. It does feel like a pretty low bar to set. I think at this point everyone is just hoping for any improvement though.

Well, winning six games is double what we had been doing so there is that.

Is this a podcast that you have to pay for or can I hear it for free? I don't recall if I've heard the reporter ask questions during CGC pre and post game interviews. Maybe he does.

Referencing what Jacket 05 said about the podcast and players on defense not trusting the coaches and doing their own thing, since when is this sort of thing permitted by competent coaches? It is inexcusable to allow players to dictate what they will and will not do. Are they on a team or not?

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I think this explains an awful lot. I know the family of one player who has been here two years. They wonder why an older player is playing, even though “according to them”, their son is faster, stronger and better. If what they say is true, the only reason I can think CGC would do this was to prevent a full fledged revolt by the older players. Almost all of the older players will be gone next year, so we will see.

"Revolt"? Let them revolt and the Devil take the hindmost. Coach Collins should have used this as an excuse to clean house of malcontents and players that were not buying into the program. Be good or be gone needs to be the order of the day.