Locker room issues?

Backstreetbuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
519
I think this explains an awful lot. I know the family of one player who has been here two years. They wonder why an older player is playing, even though “according to them”, their son is faster, stronger and better. If what they say is true, the only reason I can think CGC would do this was to prevent a full fledged revolt by the older players. Almost all of the older players will be gone next year, so we will see.
 

bke1984

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,424
So if this has indeed been a problem then the staff did a terrible job dealing with it. The way these things work is you give the guys time to buy in. If they don’t after they’ve been given plenty of time then you sit them down and have a talk - “you need to get on board or you won’t play - we need you to be a leader” etc. Then, when they don’t get on board you sit them down for a younger guy that is on board.

If you’re going to be bad then you might as well be bad playing a guy that has bought in and is just going through growing pains rather than a guy that has a bad attitude and is on his way out the door.
 
iceeater1969

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
9,628
bikeseat said:
Fwiw, a lot of tail end CPJ guys/first year or two CGC (year or two older than Juanyeh Thomas) wouldn't piss on CGC if he was on fire.

The skinny on the whole "nobody can bench 225 20x" was apparently a farce. The day they "tested" was immediately after a max out day and nobody wanted to push it hard and blow a pec.

Also the OL weight stuff is just not true
Click to expand...
When u change a total staff and their specialized system , there will by definition be people problems.

When we bouught smaller companies , we had to make tough xecesions on people so that our company values and priorities were the only ones in the organization.

Perhaps Collins tried to nice his way thru the change over.



Imo, there were plenty of people problems before and there will be more in the future.

How did Collins let our defense become incompetent at the end of year 3. Only after it damaged the brand did he take action. That type of leadership will cause those following him to be less focused.
 
Northeast Stinger

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
10,711
bke1984 said:
So if this has indeed been a problem then the staff did a terrible job dealing with it. The way these things work is you give the guys time to buy in. If they don’t after they’ve been given plenty of time then you sit them down and have a talk - “you need to get on board or you won’t play - we need you to be a leader” etc. Then, when they don’t get on board you sit them down for a younger guy that is on board.

If you’re going to be bad then you might as well be bad playing a guy that has bought in and is just going through growing pains rather than a guy that has a bad attitude and is on his way out the door.
Click to expand...
⬆️ Thank you.
 
slugboy

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,473
Backstreetbuzz said:
I think this explains an awful lot. I know the family of one player who has been here two years. They wonder why an older player is playing, even though “according to them”, their son is faster, stronger and better. If what they say is true, the only reason I can think CGC would do this was to prevent a full fledged revolt by the older players. Almost all of the older players will be gone next year, so we will see.
Click to expand...
Well, my family definitely thought I was the best one on the field when I played. Maybe the family you know is right.

Coaches can be wrong about who should play, and most coaches make a lot of mistakes about who they should play, but they usually just play it straight and put the player out there that they think gives them the best chance to win. The family you know has a better insight into the locker room than I do, but from the cheap seats where I am I’d wager that CGC isn’t playing 9-dimensional chess—he’s just playing the players that he thinks will give him the best team now.

bke1984 said:
So if this has indeed been a problem then the staff did a terrible job dealing with it. The way these things work is you give the guys time to buy in. If they don’t after they’ve been given plenty of time then you sit them down and have a talk - “you need to get on board or you won’t play - we need you to be a leader” etc. Then, when they don’t get on board you sit them down for a younger guy that is on board.

If you’re going to be bad then you might as well be bad playing a guy that has bought in and is just going through growing pains rather than a guy that has a bad attitude and is on his way out the door.
Click to expand...

I've seen coaches make that cutover. Some make it pretty decisively, some put it off until they're just fed up, but I've seen coaches bench their stars and get better quickly.
 

CEB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,544
Backstreetbuzz said:
I think this explains an awful lot. I know the family of one player who has been here two years. They wonder why an older player is playing, even though “according to them”, their son is faster, stronger and better. If what they say is true, the only reason I can think CGC would do this was to prevent a full fledged revolt by the older players. Almost all of the older players will be gone next year, so we will see.
Click to expand...
“According to them” meaning the coaches or the family? I have a hard time believing at this level that anyone would sit behind an older player if the younger guy could make a greater contribution. If we were 10-0 and the seniors “got us there,” that would be one thing. We aren’t winning and we are needing answers. Play whomever makes a difference!
On the other hand, I’d love to find out that we played all the older guys out of loyalty and next year we’re going to trot out a team full of monsters... but I am skeptical of that...
 

TheTechGuy

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
922
Jacket05 said:
In yesterday's Locked On podcast that Byrce Koon does he talked a lot about issues with players (primarily from CPJ recruits but some CGC recruits) not being bought in and causing major issues in the locker room. He also mentioned that most if not all the guys that were not bought in have now left the program.

If this is the case, which Bryce seems to be certain is it, then that likely contributed to many of the issues we had last year especially on D. I felt like most of the defensive play calls were not bad but broke down cause of miscommunication or players being out of position. If the players don't believe/trust in the coaching staff then they will likely do their own thing and end up out of position.

Thought I would start this thread to see what others thought about Bryce's comments and also to see if anyone here had any further insights into what is/was actually going on. Please don't turn this into a CPJ vs CGC or Fire CGC debate. The focus is more on the player dynamic not the coaches.
Click to expand...
By Gawd, it must have been those dastardly CPJ recruits that convinced Gibbs to leave for Alabama too. Sounds like Bryce has cracked the case! Quick! Get Collins another extension!
 
Pointer

Pointer

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,801
TromboneJacket said:
I never said that he gets a free pass for any of this. He still needs to win 6 games minimum or he’s gone. Reasons and excuses aren’t the same thing. Even if the veteran players are causing problems, it’s his job to address those problems either through private conversations or disciplinary action. I’m just speculating on possible reasons that we struggled so much the past 3 years (that go beyond “Geoff Collins sucks lol”).
Click to expand...
Don't understand how 6 wins is the magic number many are throwing around with respect to win total for CGC staying.

6 is a joke, it's garbage. This will be year 4, a 6 will year is a fire-able offense after 3 years of 3 wins.
 

Heisman's Ghost

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,830
Location
Albany Georgia
Pointer said:
Don't understand how 6 wins is the magic number many are throwing around with respect to win total for CGC staying.

6 is a joke, it's garbage. This will be year 4, a 6 will year is a fire-able offense after 3 years of 3 wins.
Click to expand...
One three win season is understandable...three in a row becomes untenable. 6 win seasons in the Coastal are certainly nothing to brag about but kind of expected in the yearly contest to see who is the tallest midget in the room. That said, I don't pretend to know if there is some magic number of wins he needs to get so much as how the team looks. A repeat of last year's debacle is clearly not acceptable. This may be the year we see if being "Portal U" means anything.
 

Heisman's Ghost

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,830
Location
Albany Georgia
slugboy said:
Well, my family definitely thought I was the best one on the field when I played. Maybe the family you know is right.

Coaches can be wrong about who should play, and most coaches make a lot of mistakes about who they should play, but they usually just play it straight and put the player out there that they think gives them the best chance to win. The family you know has a better insight into the locker room than I do, but from the cheap seats where I am I’d wager that CGC isn’t playing 9-dimensional chess—he’s just playing the players that he thinks will give him the best team now.



I've seen coaches make that cutover. Some make it pretty decisively, some put it off until they're just fed up, but I've seen coaches bench their stars and get better quickly.
Click to expand...
I am told by my Florida friends that soon after Urban became coach he was upset by a starting cornerback that was not going to class and doing things he should not have been doing. When he called the player into his office and outlined a number of goals he expected all players to meet and a list of punishments for his particular infractions the player reacted by saying: "Do you know who I am?" Implying that he was critical to the team's success. "Sure, said the coach...you used to play football for the University of Florida" Sometimes players need to understand that there really isn't any "I" in "Team".
 
Jacket05

Jacket05

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
681
Heisman's Ghost said:
I am told by my Florida friends that soon after Urban became coach he was upset by a starting cornerback that was not going to class and doing things he should not have been doing. When he called the player into his office and outlined a number of goals he expected all players to meet and a list of punishments for his particular infractions the player reacted by saying: "Do you know who I am?" Implying that he was critical to the team's success. "Sure, said the coach...you used to play football for the University of Florida" Sometimes players need to understand that there really isn't any "I" in "Team".
Click to expand...
I agree with the idea of your post as laid out in the last sentence but not sure Urban Meyer is a good model for how a coach should act. Sure he had a decent amount of success on the field but his programs were (and still are) surrounded by off the field issues and some serious allegations of misconduct.
 
TromboneJacket

TromboneJacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
859
Location
Seattle, WA
Pointer said:
Don't understand how 6 wins is the magic number many are throwing around with respect to win total for CGC staying.

6 is a joke, it's garbage. This will be year 4, a 6 will year is a fire-able offense after 3 years of 3 wins.
Click to expand...
Because we’re not exactly overflowing with cash, and 6 wins shows enough improvement to give him another year. To counter, what makes you so sure we’ll be able to hire someone who will do well after firing a 6-win Collins? And do we really want to fire a coach that badly before the transfer portal calms down. I expect it will in a few years once it’s shown that it’s not a great option for every player and his cousin. But if we fire Collins this year, there’s a good chance we could lose ~17-20 players to the portal. Obviously if Collins isn’t getting it done he has to go, but do we really want to leave his replacement a program with a reduced budget and a roster with a chunk taken out of it if we can avoid that?
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,152
Pointer said:
Don't understand how 6 wins is the magic number many are throwing around with respect to win total for CGC staying.

6 is a joke, it's garbage. This will be year 4, a 6 will year is a fire-able offense after 3 years of 3 wins.
Click to expand...
10 teams in the ACC this year won 6 games. It does feel like a pretty low bar to set. I think at this point everyone is just hoping for any improvement though.
 
sgreer

sgreer

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
402
Pointer said:
Don't understand how 6 wins is the magic number many are throwing around with respect to win total for CGC staying.

6 is a joke, it's garbage. This will be year 4, a 6 will year is a fire-able offense after 3 years of 3 wins.
Click to expand...
Clemson, uga, Ole Miss, Miami, and UNC have better talent than us- UCF is a better program - That leaves 6 games vs teams with equal or lesser talent on the schedule. 6 wins would be a step in the right direction
 
Top