Lineup for this season?

[MiracleWhips]

Might be a rough year. Our starting roster only has 1 ACC-starting-caliber player IMO and 1 that we know nothing about but could be an ACC starter (Devoe). I think the rest have the potential to be ACC starters, but we'll have to see the output of their summers. Gueye was a lot better last year than the year before, hopefully he makes an even bigger leap this summer.

"ACC starter"..I feel like this is a very loose term that gets thrown around. What make one an ACC starter?

 

[orientalnc]

Just for the sake of kicking in...

G - Jose/Devoe/Phillips
G - Devoe/Phillips/Jose/Alston
Wing - Haywood/Phillips/Alston/Moore
Stretch 4/Jumbo Wing - Cole/Wright or Sjolund/Sjolund or Wright/Moore
Post - AD/Cole/Vess

Something to note - Pastner has said Moses is either going to be a Top 3 player on our team at some point or he's going to be 12th best. I don't expect a breakout season for him production wise, but I'd like to see the goal set for him to play in a consistent, level-headed manner.

I think we will play small a lot this year, hoping we can create mismatch situations on offense. Jose/Devoe/Phillips/Alston have to play smart at the 1-2-3 when that lineup is on the floor, and I expect this order to be the priority for minutes.

I would be surprised if Haywood doesn't see a lot of minutes at the 4, but he should be our starter at the 3. Sjolund and Moore are big question marks for me. Both have nice upside potential, but I think we will see their minutes diminish after Christmas. Cole and Wright showed flashes last year and I hope they can build on that experience. Neither played D adequately at any time, so that could be their limiting factor.

I think Cole may play the elbow a lot this year. AD never showed he could play away from the basket and I doubt it will change this year. But I expect him to start. Wright will have to learn how to play with his back to the basket or learn to play with more control facing it. I have never seen Vess do anything to warrant being on the team, so my expectations for him are very low.

And there is that still unidentified 13th player. If CJP does not find someone capable of playing, we will have 11 eligible players on scholarship, and one (Vess) who has never really been a contributor.

My normal lineup would be:

PG-Jose/Devoe
SG-Devoe/Phillips/Alston
SF-Haywood/Cole
PF-Cole/Wright
C-AD/Cole

My small ball lineup would be:

PG- Jose/Devoe
SG-Devoe/Phillips
SF-Phillips/Alston
PF-Haywood/Cole
C-AD/Wright


Another note: I think Banks' presence in practice could make AD and Cole and Wright better players.

 

[MiracleWhips]

I think we will play small a lot this year, hoping we can create mismatch situations on offense. Jose/Devoe/Phillips/Alston have to play smart at the 1-2-3 when that lineup is on the floor, and I expect this order to be the priority for minutes.

I would be surprised if Haywood doesn't see a lot of minutes at the 4, but he should be our starter at the 3. Sjolund and Moore are big question marks for me. Both have nice upside potential, but I think we will see their minutes diminish after Christmas. Cole and Wright showed flashes last year and I hope they can build on that experience. Neither played D adequately at any time, so that could be their limiting factor.

I think Cole may play the elbow a lot this year. AD never showed he could play away from the basket and I doubt it will change this year. But I expect him to start. Wright will have to learn how to play with his back to the basket or learn to play with more control facing it. I have never seen Vess do anything to warrant being on the team, so my expectations for him are very low.

And there is that still unidentified 13th player. If CJP does not find someone capable of playing, we will have 11 eligible players on scholarship, and one (Vess) who has never really been a contributor.

My normal lineup would be:

PG-Jose/Devoe
SG-Devoe/Phillips/Alston
SF-Haywood/Cole
PF-Cole/Wright
C-AD/Cole

My small ball lineup would be:

PG- Jose/Devoe
SG-Devoe/Phillips
SF-Phillips/Alston
PF-Haywood/Cole
C-AD/Wright


Another note: I think Banks' presence in practice could make AD and Cole and Wright better players.

Well said, although I don't see Cole at the 5 unless he got a lot stronger in the off season, going off last year alone he would get bullied by just about all ACC centers. I'd be surprised to see the 4 guard line up again after the results it got us last year. We sacrificed a lot of rebounds with it.

 

[lv20gt]

PG- Jose/Devoe
SG-Devoe/Phillips
SF-Phillips/Alston
PF-Haywood/Cole
C-AD/Wright

That starting lineup would be destroyed on the boards. Haywood is not a PF even in a small ball line up. He doesn't create the mismatch at the 4 spot and isn't physical enough defensively to make up for it. Phillips and Alston also don't provide enough offense to warrant a small ball lineup.

 

[orientalnc]

That starting lineup would be destroyed on the boards. Haywood is not a PF even in a small ball line up. He doesn't create the mismatch at the 4 spot and isn't physical enough defensively to make up for it. Phillips and Alston also don't provide enough offense to warrant a small ball lineup.

I don't really disagree, but that is where we are this season. Our front court is our weak spot and we have try to get our five best players on the court together as much as possible.

 

[lv20gt]

I don't really disagree, but that is where we are this season. Our front court is our weak spot and we have try to get our five best players on the court together as much as possible.

Back court depth is also a weak spot. You go small ball when you have a physical SF who can slide to the 4 and enough back court depth to warrant it. We have neither. Our best 4 are Alvarado, Devoe, Haywood, and Gueye. After that we don't have anyone who stands out enough to warrant going away from a normal style line up. Alston, as we saw last year, is borderline useless in a small ball line up. Phillips is a defense oriented guard who if you play in a small ball line up negates his biggest impact by forcing someone else, Haywood likely, into a position he can't guard as well. On offense his benefit is another ball handler and if both JA and Devoe are on the court that point isn't as big a deal, and he is a mediocre shooter. We just don't have a small ball team.

 

[orientalnc]

Back court depth is also a weak spot. You go small ball when you have a physical SF who can slide to the 4 and enough back court depth to warrant it. We have neither. Our best 4 are Alvarado, Devoe, Haywood, and Gueye. After that we don't have anyone who stands out enough to warrant going away from a normal style line up. Alston, as we saw last year, is borderline useless in a small ball line up. Phillips is a defense oriented guard who if you play in a small ball line up negates his biggest impact by forcing someone else, Haywood likely, into a position he can't guard as well. On offense his benefit is another ball handler and if both JA and Devoe are on the court that point isn't as big a deal, and he is a mediocre shooter. We just don't have a small ball team.

We don't have the size to play big either, but staff will have to do some experimenting. As for Phillips role in a small lineup, he hit 37% from behind the arc in his two seasons at Tennessee. I think that qualifies as a sharpshooter at Tech!

In a small lineup you almost always have a size mismatch at the 4. What you hope is that the mismatch works in your favor as well. And playing the zone (I cannot see group playing much M2M unless our coaches are a ton better teachers than I thought) that size issue at the 4 won't matter as much.

 

[MiracleWhips]

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[MiracleWhips]

Back court depth is also a weak spot. You go small ball when you have a physical SF who can slide to the 4 and enough back court depth to warrant it. We have neither. Our best 4 are Alvarado, Devoe, Haywood, and Gueye. After that we don't have anyone who stands out enough to warrant going away from a normal style line up. Alston, as we saw last year, is borderline useless in a small ball line up. Phillips is a defense oriented guard who if you play in a small ball line up negates his biggest impact by forcing someone else, Haywood likely, into a position he can't guard as well. On offense his benefit is another ball handler and if both JA and Devoe are on the court that point isn't as big a deal, and he is a mediocre shooter. We just don't have a small ball team.

I agree, I feel like we would see Wright Cole and Gueye on the court at the same time before we see that small ball line up again.

 

[slugboy]

Really? I look at not having Ben as good thing. Not taking Ben's play lightly but not having him allows us to run and gun. We weren't able to utilize our athleticism the way I believe we could have. Having Evan and Moses in will be so much better for our offense, might even allow us to run 5 out if both have improved their shooting. Wright proved to be a pretty good defender down low, especially against bigger post guys due to his length. If you factor in the fact he will be putting on weight as well, should be very promising.

Having Lammers never prevented us from playing anything. The issue was not having shooters.
If we had him this year, we’d give him 10-15 minutes of rest in a game instead of 2, but we’d still play the heck out of him


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[YlJacket]

The discussion just points out the need for one of the projects we have at the 4 to actually hit this year (throw Moore in there as well). As I am assuming DeVoe will score as advertised (no small assumption but a requirement), then the development of these projects for both the 4 and 5 are likely to determine how the team does. Would also be great if Gueye can stay on the court for more than 20 min but I am not counting on that one.

FWIW I have no doubt we will see some small ball this year and may even do it with Wright/Cole at the 5. Go total 5 out. Sans Alston that is our best 4 offensive players and we may find matchups where we don't get killed - or need to do it for small stretches to change tempo or bridge foul trouble. But it will depend on whether most likely Cole or Wright make the leap to legit ACC player. Or we get a huge surprise from Moore or Sjolund.

 

[orientalnc]

The discussion just points out the need for one of the projects we have at the 4 to actually hit this year (throw Moore in there as well). As I am assuming DeVoe will score as advertised (no small assumption but a requirement), then the development of these projects for both the 4 and 5 are likely to determine how the team does. Would also be great if Gueye can stay on the court for more than 20 min but I am not counting on that one.

FWIW I have no doubt we will see some small ball this year and may even do it with Wright/Cole at the 5. Go total 5 out. Sans Alston that is our best 4 offensive players and we may find matchups where we don't get killed - or need to do it for small stretches to change tempo or bridge foul trouble. But it will depend on whether most likely Cole or Wright make the leap to legit ACC player. Or we get a huge surprise from Moore or Sjolund.

This is a great point. AD has trouble staying in games. He had 4 or more fouls in 16 games last year and played fewer than 5 minutes in five games where had less than 4 fouls. He is OK when we have someone one the elbow to keep the low post open, but he cannot be the one on the elbow. I would like to see Cole become a legit small ball 5. That is the lineup we could use to keep the court open for our cutters. And with Jose and Devoe in together, that could be our best offense.

But, let's not forget, we lost 43 ppg to graduation/NBA. We are likely to have serious issues on both ends of the court.

 

[lv20gt]

We don't have the size to play big either, but staff will have to do some experimenting. As for Phillips role in a small lineup, he hit 37% from behind the arc in his two seasons at Tennessee. I think that qualifies as a sharpshooter at Tech!

In a small lineup you almost always have a size mismatch at the 4. What you hope is that the mismatch works in your favor as well. And playing the zone (I cannot see group playing much M2M unless our coaches are a ton better teachers than I thought) that size issue at the 4 won't matter as much.

Playing a normal lineup isn't playing big. We have Gueye/Wright/Cole to rotate between the two spots, as well as Ogbonda for depth at the 5, and even Sjolund at the 4 wouldn't be playing small, although it would be light.

Phillips shot 37% on 1.5 attempts per game. That's not a sharpshooter even at GT. To put that in perspective that's about what Alston was for us last year. Neither of them have the offensive tools to warrant play in a small ball line up. Small ball line ups rely on having a physical if undersized SF playing the 4 spot. It's not just throw whatever wing play you got there. Haywood isn't a physical enough defender or good enough rebounder for that role. As far as mismatches created who is creating mismatches at the 4 spot going small? Neither Alston nor Haywood provide that.

Zone already has issues with rebounding and going even smaller hurts that. You also want length in a zone to disrupt passing lanes.

 

[YlJacket]

But, let's not forget, we lost 43 ppg to graduation/NBA. We are likely to have serious issues on both ends of the court.

We lost over 50% of our PPG, RPG, min per game, pretty much any statistic you want to look at. That amount was a bit higher due to injuries to Haywood and Alvarado but by any analysis JO, Lammers and Tadric were the core of last year's team. We have a lot more raw talent next year IMHO but so many open questions that have to hit right for us to make any progress. I expect the pre ACC season to be nothing but a large experiment in different lineups and approaches to offense and defense. I am hoping we find answers before getting into the ACC or it could be ugly.

Again, I think we have more overall talent this year than last, but we may be a year away from comfortably fitting into the get old stay old category.

 

[jbix80]

Good article about Devoe’s floor general ability on ramblinwreck.com. Seems like an extremely versatile player. Plus, the new Adidas shoes look great in the pic.

 

[jcktseed]

Good article about Devoe’s floor general ability on ramblinwreck.com. Seems like an extremely versatile player. Plus, the new Adidas shoes look great in the pic.

So GT best recruit in years was identified by the one coach that was fired. I'm a little worried our recruiting.

 

[whitegoldsphinx]

So GT best recruit in years was identified by the one coach that was fired. I'm a little worried our recruiting.

Not sure how you come to that conclusion from the quote below. LaBarrie was simply recruiting the area assigned to him. Identifying top talent is not rocket science.

"As a junior at Oak Ridge High School in Orlando, he averaged 22.4 points, 6.9 rebounds and 4.8 assists as his role evolved. As a sophomore, he put up 18.9 points, 6.8 assists and 3.6 rebounds, and, he said, former Jackets assistant coach Darryl LaBarrie“locked in on me from there.”

 

[Jumpman]

Not sure how you come to that conclusion from the quote below. LaBarrie was simply recruiting the area assigned to him. Identifying top talent is not rocket science.

"As a junior at Oak Ridge High School in Orlando, he averaged 22.4 points, 6.9 rebounds and 4.8 assists as his role evolved. As a sophomore, he put up 18.9 points, 6.8 assists and 3.6 rebounds, and, he said, former Jackets assistant coach Darryl LaBarrie“locked in on me from there.”

Recruiting the area assigned to him? That’s not how college basketball recruiting works and it’s especially not how it happened in DLaB recruiting Devoe.

 

[whitegoldsphinx]

Recruiting the area assigned to him? That’s not how college basketball recruiting works and it’s especially not how it happened in DLaB recruiting Devoe.

So trying to read between the lines since you left no details, LaBarrie is completely responsible for discovering DeVoe, and he would never have signed with Tech if it weren't for LaBarrie? I would have thought a player starting on the national championship high school team would not have to be discovered, but I could be wrong. Would appreciate an explanation of how recruiting works, because I've heard certain coaches are associated with or have experience or history in certain areas, but obviously that is not the primary focus from what you are saying.

 

[Jumpman]

DLaB is the reason why Devoe signed with Tech. Go read the Devoe recruiting thread for background info. None of the coaches are limited to a certain geographic area. They all recruit the entire country and go after the best talent they can find. Some coaches might have stronger contacts in a certain area
But that doesn’t mean that the other coaches can’t try to recruit a player in that area. Recruiting is more about relationship building with players when they are younger and maybe not the star player that they might grow into. That’s why having assistant coaches with a good eye for young raw talent is necessary for a program to be successful.