Legitimate observation/question

[Vespidae]

If this is really what the AD finds acceptable.....he needs to get canned immediately. No one in their right might should consider 4-8 years of bad teams is acceptable in today's college football environment.

THIS is the plan. Seven year contract, operating the team in the toilet for the first 3 years and then … find a way to be competitive.

Why is anyone surprised at this? This is what he said he would do …

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Wow... And everyone is ok with this? We are going to range from abysmal to sub-par for YEARS in the hope that we might get better?
I guess we should all just go to sleep and wake up again in 3 years to see if anything has changed. Just wow...

I don't know that we have any choice in the matter. I've said before in another post, but I will restate it here. I don't know that we had much choice in the matter to begin with.

A majority here seem to labor under the assumption that there was no possible way TStan was going to hire another option coach to replace CPJ. It's entirely possible this was the case, but it really wouldn't have mattered if TStan HAD been willing to go that route. As it stands, there are really on a few option coaches out there to replace CPJ. Monken at Army, Coach N at Navy, Bohannon at Kennesaw and maybe Fritz. After watching the hell CPJ underwent during his tenure here, which one of these coaches was coming to GT. Monken and Coach N have gigs where they can stay as long as they want and the expectations for them aren't nearly what they would be with our delusional fans. You can't hire Bohannon from KSU because he's entirely too raw to put in this role. Fritz is little better than Bohannon in that same regard. There simply aren't a lot of option coaches available, and ALL of them would be a clear step down from CPJ in terms of mastery of the offense.

That leaves transforming the offense as the only real option, pardon the pun. Knowing that we would have to change completely, the best coach was found to begin that process. In the end, CGC was hired and like it or not, here we are. If there is any real blame to be had, it probably should be laid at the feet of DRad for hiring CPJ. I know I predicted when he was hired, that when the time came to revert the offense, we'd be looking at 3-8 years before we were back to normal. As CPJ would say "it is what it is."

Now, I was as big a CPJ fan as anyone here, and I have a LOT of reservations about the current staff, but I also believe that we need to be honest about where we are and what it will take to get where we want to be. CGC is our coach, and, IMO, he deserves our support for at least three years. Time will tell if he can recruit and coach. Until then, all we can do is support our team. Griping about it won't help anyone.

 

[SoMsJacket]

If this is really what the AD finds acceptable.....he needs to get canned immediately. No one in their right might should consider 4-8 years of bad teams is acceptable in today's college football environment.

Exactly who would you have hired to transition from the 3O to a modern offense that would appeal to the majority of today's HS seniors? The 3O is dead and a major detriment to recruiting. Its about the Jimmys and Joes. If you don't believe that, you are totally out of touch with today's P5 programs.

 

[stech81]

I don't know that we have any choice in the matter. I've said before in another post, but I will restate it here. I don't know that we had much choice in the matter to begin with.

A majority here seem to labor under the assumption that there was no possible way TStan was going to hire another option coach to replace CPJ. It's entirely possible this was the case, but it really wouldn't have mattered if TStan HAD been willing to go that route. As it stands, there are really on a few option coaches out there to replace CPJ. Monken at Army, Coach N at Navy, Bohannon at Kennesaw and maybe Fritz. After watching the hell CPJ underwent during his tenure here, which one of these coaches was coming to GT. Monken and Coach N have gigs where they can stay as long as they want and the expectations for them aren't nearly what they would be with our delusional fans. You can't hire Bohannon from KSU because he's entirely too raw to put in this role. Fritz is little better than Bohannon in that same regard. There simply aren't a lot of option coaches available, and ALL of them would be a clear step down from CPJ in terms of mastery of the offense.

That leaves transforming the offense as the only real option, pardon the pun. Knowing that we would have to change completely, the best coach was found to begin that process. In the end, CGC was hired and like it or not, here we are. If there is any real blame to be had, it probably should be laid at the feet of DRad for hiring CPJ. I know I predicted when he was hired, that when the time came to revert the offense, we'd be looking at 3-8 years before we were back to normal. As CPJ would say "it is what it is."

Now, I was as big a CPJ fan as anyone here, and I have a LOT of reservations about the current staff, but I also believe that we need to be honest about where we are and what it will take to get where we want to be. CGC is our coach, and, IMO, he deserves our support for at least three years. Time will tell if he can recruit and coach. Until then, all we can do is support our team. Griping about it won't help anyone.

I wish someone would tell my wife griping don't help , wait it does cause I give in the get her to stop.

 

[GTFLETCH]

THIS is the plan. Seven year contract, operating the team in the toilet for the first 3 years and then … find a way to be competitive.

Why is anyone surprised at this? This is what he said he would do …

Hopefully the AD can fire CGC before year 4 instead of after... And we can find the next Georgia Oleary... I am schocked that so many are ok with tanking for 3 years just to win 6 or 7 games in year 4 or 5

 

[stech81]

Hopefully the AD can fire CGC before year 4 instead of after... And we can find the next Georgia Oleary... I am schocked that so many are ok with tanking for 3 years just to win 6 or 7 games in year 4 or 5

Tanking no , but you have to give any coach 3 years as long as you don't go back. The problem is this is only his first recruiting class that is all his.

 

[GTFLETCH]

Exactly who would you have hired to transition from the 3O to a modern offense that would appeal to the majority of today's HS seniors? The 3O is dead and a major detriment to recruiting. Its about the Jimmys and Joes. If you don't believe that, you are totally out of touch with today's P5 programs.

Willie Fritz
Craig Bohl
Bob DeBesse
Bill Stewart
Jeff Mullen
Les Koenning

Just to name a few

 

[cyclejacket]

If this is really what the AD finds acceptable.....he needs to get canned immediately. No one in their right might should consider 4-8 years of bad teams is acceptable in today's college football environment.

No, what would have been unacceptable would have been for the AD to try to continue the 3O until GT football simply fell into total irrelevance. If Paul Johnson, for all his brilliance and skill, couldn't sustain it as a viable offense then none of the others who currently run it would have been able to either. There is no reason to think that GT has to have a stylized, unique brand to be successful. There are plenty of programs around the country who are relevant without it, none of whom have the tradition of Georgia Tech or the recruiting base of Atlanta and the Southeast.

We do need top notch coaching because we are not an athletic factory, and due to the fact we have a relatively small alumni base, financial resources, and fewer majors. With the current level of financial resources available we couldn't afford to hire a "sure thing", so ADTS picked someone with excitement and a plan for the transition. I am not sold on CGC or this staff, but I am sold on the fact that the transition had to be made and that we should support him until he's had enough time to prove he was the wrong choice. And that amount of time certainly extends beyond one season and a couple of head scratching losses.

 

[GTFLETCH]

Tanking no , but you have to give any coach 3 years as long as you don't go back. The problem is this is only his first recruiting class that is all his.

My issue is the piss poor coaching and undisciplined play on the field...There's zero excuse for a delay on the first snap. Zero. Telling us constantly how we are getting better in all phases of the game every day ? C'mon. You're in the 10th game and this was our worst performance - I say that over the Citadel game because we've had 6 more games and additional weeks of practice.

I am worried once he has his 3 star recruits who so going to coach em up so we do not see this product( undisciplined play) on the field?

 

[Jim Prather]

I don't know that we have any choice in the matter. I've said before in another post, but I will restate it here. I don't know that we had much choice in the matter to begin with.

A majority here seem to labor under the assumption that there was no possible way TStan was going to hire another option coach to replace CPJ. It's entirely possible this was the case, but it really wouldn't have mattered if TStan HAD been willing to go that route. As it stands, there are really on a few option coaches out there to replace CPJ. Monken at Army, Coach N at Navy, Bohannon at Kennesaw and maybe Fritz. After watching the hell CPJ underwent during his tenure here, which one of these coaches was coming to GT. Monken and Coach N have gigs where they can stay as long as they want and the expectations for them aren't nearly what they would be with our delusional fans. You can't hire Bohannon from KSU because he's entirely too raw to put in this role. Fritz is little better than Bohannon in that same regard. There simply aren't a lot of option coaches available, and ALL of them would be a clear step down from CPJ in terms of mastery of the offense.

That leaves transforming the offense as the only real option, pardon the pun. Knowing that we would have to change completely, the best coach was found to begin that process. In the end, CGC was hired and like it or not, here we are. If there is any real blame to be had, it probably should be laid at the feet of DRad for hiring CPJ. I know I predicted when he was hired, that when the time came to revert the offense, we'd be looking at 3-8 years before we were back to normal. As CPJ would say "it is what it is."

Now, I was as big a CPJ fan as anyone here, and I have a LOT of reservations about the current staff, but I also believe that we need to be honest about where we are and what it will take to get where we want to be. CGC is our coach, and, IMO, he deserves our support for at least three years. Time will tell if he can recruit and coach. Until then, all we can do is support our team. Griping about it won't help anyone.

So you have put together a reasoned argument, but let me propose some alternate hypotheses and counter arguments:

1. Had we remained with the spread option (which I agree T Stansbury was getting too much political pressure against to keep) :
Ken N will never leave Navy -- not a viable candidate
Jeff Monken -- Even the Army boosters expected him to take the GT job once is came open.. I think you dismissed this choice too quickly.
Brian Bohannon - Not including this season, he has 5 years as a head coach and 20 years as an assistant coach. I'm not convinced that you can dismiss him as too raw when our current head coach only has 2 years as a head coach and also has 20 years as an assistant coach.
2. Had we gone with a shotgun based option offense: (this would have been my choice)
Willie Fritz - you also consider him too raw, but he has 23 years as a head coach and has already presided over a transition away from a spread option offense.
If instead you want to go young, go look at someone who runs Urban Meyer's offense - which is a spread option offense out of the shogun.
3. Standard NCAA offense -- No matter who you chose, you are looking at multi-year roster re-build.

At this point you have concluded "That leaves transforming the offense as the only real option".

Here I disagree in scope. Had we gone with a shotgun based option offense as opposed to our current strategy, which as best as I can tell is "blow it all up and start over", we would have had some drop off (which is natural in any coaching transition) but would have also been competitive while the roster was transitioned to a more traditional profile. Even if that coach did not work out, we would have had 3-4 competitive years (which, given the choices that have been made, we are already conceding we are not going have ), and could have then transitioned to a traditional NCAA offense without the pain of a lost 1/3 to 1/2 decade.

 

[stech81]

Willie Fritz
Craig Bohl
Bob DeBesse
Bill Stewart
Jeff Mullen
Les Koenning

Just to name a few

But did they want the job, I really don't remember anyone coming out and acting like they wanted it. I seem to remember a few before we hired CPJ say they would like to talk. But we could have and not heard about it.

 

[GTFLETCH]

No, what would have been unacceptable would have been for the AD to try to continue the 3O until GT football simply fell into total irrelevance. If Paul Johnson, for all his brilliance and skill, couldn't sustain it as a viable offense then none of the others who currently run it would have been able to either. There is no reason to think that GT has to have a stylized, unique brand to be successful. There are plenty of programs around the country who are relevant without it, none of whom have the tradition of Georgia Tech or the recruiting base of Atlanta and the Southeast.

We do need top notch coaching because we are not an athletic factory, and due to the fact we have a relatively small alumni base, financial resources, and fewer majors. With the current level of financial resources available we couldn't afford to hire a "sure thing", so ADTS picked someone with excitement and a plan for the transition. I am not sold on CGC or this staff, but I am sold on the fact that the transition had to be made and that we should support him until he's had enough time to prove he was the wrong choice. And that amount of time certainly extends beyond one season and a couple of head scratching losses.

Spot On!!!?

 

[GTFLETCH]

But did they want the job, I really don't remember anyone coming out and acting like they wanted it. I seem to remember a few before we hired CPJ say they would like to talk. But we could have and not heard about it.

AD interviewed two guys... Ken Wisenhunt and Geoff Collins... You would have to ask him why he only interviewed two candidates...

 

[ibeattetris]

Had we gone with a shotgun based option offense as opposed to our current strategy

Our base play is read option, and multiple times we ran triple option against VT. We have plenty of spread triple in our playbook, we are just more multiple now and aren’t trying to focus only on running.

 

[stech81]

My issue is the piss poor coaching and undisciplined play on the field...There's zero excuse for a delay on the first snap. Zero. Telling us constantly how we are getting better in all phases of the game every day ? C'mon. You're in the 10th game and this was our worst performance - I say that over the Citadel game because we've had 6 more games and additional weeks of practice.

I am worried once he has his 3 star recruits who so going to coach em up so we do not see this product( undisciplined play) on the field?

I didn't say we are getting better . all I said was you have to give a coach 3 years or it's not fair to them.
I look at this different than most, you have about 82 players on scholarship and you want to sign 25 but only about 11 are seniors. So that means you have to tell some bye I would think they know who they are and even if we don't hear about it the players talk. Only takes a few to cause a problem and if that is the problem all you can do is wait to get them off the team. This is not a CGC it happens to all first year coaches . it happen to Ross just have to wait till they get their players

 

[Jim Prather]

Our base play is read option, and multiple times we ran triple option against VT. We have plenty of spread triple in our playbook, we are just more multiple now and aren’t trying to focus only on running.

That is true, it is in our play book, but there is a big difference between having the play in the repertoire, and being committed to running the system.
Of course, we could always go with the knee jerk reaction that perhaps our coaches just don't know how to teach it correctly...

 

[Technut1990]

Why should we expect a significant improvement in OL play next year. Freshmen need a couple of years and the remaining linemen from this year are still making mistakes after 10 games. I don't see much improvement with the O next year. Same OC , same linemen, and same QB's. What changes?

In all fairness its a different kind of lineman. Our OL spent 90% of the time run blocking, now they are expected to get into pass blocking sets. I would imagine it takes time to figure things out and recruit to that style. We wont be as bad next year

 

[Technut1990]

AD interviewed two guys... Ken Wisenhunt and Geoff Collins... You would have to ask him why he only interviewed two candidates...

do we really know that ?

 

[1BearJACKET]

So here’s my question: TStan played at Tech. Do you think he’s impressed or ... drinking heavily?

Maybe he was just really fond of the early Bill Curry era and wanted to be able to reminisce.

 

[tmhunter52]

Willie Fritz
Craig Bohl
Bob DeBesse
Bill Stewart
Jeff Mullen
Les Koenning

Just to name a few

It would be interesting to know who, if anyone, turned down the job before Coach Collins accepted it...