Last Year's UGA Game

dressedcheeseside

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I think the call could go either way...pass inc or fumble. JT thought it was a fumble before even before the mutts jumped on it. I think on replay you could argue the hand had stopped moving forward when the ball came out.
I agree 100%. I call those 50/50 calls, calls that could go either way, sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't. We got more than our share of these this year. The huge one in the GSU game comes right to mind. Then we had a few more in the Pitt game.
 

orange14

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after looking at the replay - the ball WAS moving forward. So was the hand. So, unless the refs are psychics......
 

Northeast Stinger

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after looking at the replay - the ball WAS moving forward. So was the hand. So, unless the refs are psychics......
And therein is the crux of the matter. Does anyone on this site know if the rule is iron clad or is there room for interpretation by the ref on the field? I ask because at the time of the play I thought, "Well, if they go by the letter of the law then this is an incomplete pass but it sure looked to me like he was changing his mind and the ball slipped out of what would otherwise look like a pump fake."
 

takethepoints

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I have made my point to several of my UGA buddies. How dumb was Richt for calling the time out with 4 seconds left on the play clock and Butker not even set. I've watched time and time again, we more than likely would have got a day of game penalty. That 5 yards takes him out of range.

Hindsight really is 20/20. I wasn't surprised when Richt took the timeout. Butker was already at the extreme of his accurate range. Giving him a minute or two to think about the kick in a very hostile environment actually follows the usual coaching book. I also wasn't surprised by the squib kick. If they kick it off and Golden gets a seam, then they could be looking at Tech at their 40. Their kick coverage had been no better then average all year.

Mind, I'm glad he made both decisions, but they could have worked favorably for the Dwags as easily as for us.
 

deeeznutz

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Hindsight really is 20/20. I wasn't surprised when Richt took the timeout. Butker was already at the extreme of his accurate range. Giving him a minute or two to think about the kick in a very hostile environment actually follows the usual coaching book. I also wasn't surprised by the squib kick. If they kick it off and Golden gets a seam, then they could be looking at Tech at their 40. Their kick coverage had been no better then average all year.

Mind, I'm glad he made both decisions, but they could have worked favorably for the Dwags as easily as for us.
Good point on the squib kick, lots of times those take a crazy bounce that sends them down to about the 20 or so where the coverage team gets all up in the returner's face right when he gets it. We were very fortunate it went right into Harrell's arms, he caught it cleanly, and was able to pick up a handful of yards on the run. We literally needed every single yard we got there at the end.
 

GlennW

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REGARDLESS of whether Justin's other play was an incomplete pass or a fumble, there was NO DOUBT the one at the goal line was either a TD for GA Tech, or he was barely stopped at the goal line and held there for nearly FIVE SECONDS before the ball was knocked out of his hands. Forward progress SHOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED well before the phantom fumble even if Justin wasn't given credit for crossing the goal line, which some TV angles showed he, in fact, had done.

With UGA being credited with that phantom recovery for a TD, THAT was a 14 point swing made by the SEC Refs, NOT by the players, like when our Defenders stopped UGA's rushers and legitimately caused fumbles we recovered. Also, both of Ray Drew's blocks of OUR kicks should have been, by RULE, illegal, because he was lined up directly over our Center and hit him as soon as the ball was snapped; running over him to make the blocks. Clear NCAA rule violation any rookie Ref should have made, yet the SEC Refs IGNORED both times.
 

Skeptic

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And therein is the crux of the matter. Does anyone on this site know if the rule is iron clad or is there room for interpretation by the ref on the field? I ask because at the time of the play I thought, "Well, if they go by the letter of the law then this is an incomplete pass but it sure looked to me like he was changing his mind and the ball slipped out of what would otherwise look like a pump fake."
I have to say that I would almost bet the mortgage, and I don't gamble, that Justin Thomas had no intention of passing the ball, none at all, and had nobody to throw it to, anyway, there being this big guy directly in front, intending to do him harm. That's why he was running. That fake was not even as good as his VT move just before hitting Smelter for a TD, one of those forearm only things. The official made a good call, Tech did not get jobbed. The kid fumbled trying to make a play. I'm good with it, and would have been had Butker missed.

How many days until real football comes back?
 

AE 87

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I have to say that I would almost bet the mortgage, and I don't gamble, that Justin Thomas had no intention of passing the ball, none at all, and had nobody to throw it to, anyway, there being this big guy directly in front, intending to do him harm. That's why he was running. That fake was not even as good as his VT move just before hitting Smelter for a TD, one of those forearm only things. The official made a good call, Tech did not get jobbed. The kid fumbled trying to make a play. I'm good with it, and would have been had Butker missed.

How many days until real football comes back?

I think, could be wrong, that nobody disputes most of this. There are some who believe that JD began the motion intending to hit a rx crossing in front of him but changed his mind. Others believe, like you, that the ball came out at the end of a pump fake. I don't think anyone believes that the ball came out as JT was still intending to pass.

Those arguing that incomplete pass was the correct call, iiuc, are saying the rules are written for refs to read actions not minds. As an action the ball came out while qbs arm was moving forward in a passing motion.
 

Northeast Stinger

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Those arguing that incomplete pass was the correct call, iiuc, are saying the rules are written for refs to read actions not minds. As an action the ball came out while qbs arm was moving forward in a passing motion.
That was my point.
So asking again if anyone on this thread knows the rule. Does the rule work like most rules and take the judgement out of the refs hands with regard to intentions or does this one allow the ref to make a best estimation of what the player was actually intending to do?
As I said before, that is the crux of the matter. I think Skeptic
missed my point. The question was not what we thought JT was trying to do. That is irrelevant. The only question is how much of the rule book is iron clad and is based simply on going by the motion of the hand and how much involves interpretation, what some have called "mind reading?"https://gtswarm.com/members/skeptic.2175/
 

Skeptic

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That was my point.
So asking again if anyone on this thread knows the rule. Does the rule work like most rules and take the judgement out of the refs hands with regard to intentions or does this one allow the ref to make a best estimation of what the player was actually intending to do?
As I said before, that is the crux of the matter. I think Skeptic
missed my point. The question was not what we thought JT was trying to do. That is irrelevant. The only question is how much of the rule book is iron clad and is based simply on going by the motion of the hand and how much involves interpretation, what some have called "mind reading?"
And I am saying, and I am done since it is a circular argument at best, that there is no way on God's green earth his arm motion had anything to do with a real forward pass, and the refs don't have to read his mind to see that.
 

deeeznutz

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In an interview during spring practice, Coach Johnson stated that the supervisor of officials called him about a month after the season to say that they erred on both calls and that he, the official, was more upset about the incomplete pass being ruled a fumble as it should've been overturned on review.
And yet I'm sure those refs got no punishment for blowing those calls. If anything they were probably scolded for not doing enough to help their boys win.
 

Skeptic

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In an interview during spring practice, Coach Johnson stated that the supervisor of officials called him about a month after the season to say that they erred on both calls and that he, the official, was more upset about the incomplete pass being ruled a fumble as it should've been overturned on review.
I would just say that I would think that such a story would have been all over the papers, and surely message boards, in the wake of all the bitter complaints, particularly about the 95-yard TD "return". Really: exploding all over them. Even now, someone would have posted a copy of said interview. Yet, this is the first time I've heard or seen anything, and the said confession would have ended this debate long ago. A bit too convenient for my taste. Can you point us to the site?
 

augustabuzz

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I would just say that I would think that such a story would have been all over the papers, and surely message boards, in the wake of all the bitter complaints, particularly about the 95-yard TD "return". Really: exploding all over them. Even now, someone would have posted a copy of said interview. Yet, this is the first time I've heard or seen anything, and the said confession would have ended this debate long ago. A bit too convenient for my taste. Can you point us to the site?
It was in an interview during spring practice. I can't recall who gave the interview.
 

forensicbuzz

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Less of an issue with the guys on the field. My beef is with the replay official. There were several calls that were obvious on review should have been overturned and weren't.

In the end, it only made the game more exciting. Not sure my heart can take so many of those, but in the end, the good guys won, yea!!!
 

tech_wreck47

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Less of an issue with the guys on the field. My beef is with the replay official. There were several calls that were obvious on review should have been overturned and weren't.

In the end, it only made the game more exciting. Not sure my heart can take so many of those, but in the end, the good guys won, yea!!!
The last fumble was a hard call. Originally it was called a fumble, so they reviewed the play. What's hard about that play is the fact that it was hard to tell if the ball came out while in throwing motion or if it was after he pump faked the throw imo it was on the border so there would not be enough disputable evidence to over turn and I would have wanted the play to stay if tech was on the other side of that play. The first one was to hard to tell if he had crossed the line, but his forward progress was definitely stopped and the whistle should have been blown. When it comes to replay I'm not sure they are allowed to change a forward progress being stopped play. I think the first one was most definitely the refs fault but the second one imo was the right call to not overturn it. Think about the Pitt game, the one where their wr fumbled was very borderline,and if it was called that he was down then the call more than likely would have stayed.
 
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