Kaepernick

[Whiskey_Clear]

Niners QB refusing to stand for national anthem and by golly not backing down. God bless our soldiers, marines, airmen, and all who have given their lives to defend this moron's 1st amendment right to do so. NFL isn't required to support that free speech however and I hope he stays suspended as long as this continues. Ditto any other player who does the same.

I'm sure the suspension won't last. When he resumes play you can bet your *** I'll be pulling for every defender to slobberknock the hell out of him. Some of those defenders have family that serve to protect our freedom. Bust his ***.

Honestly, if you feel this country is so "oppressive", please feel free to immigrate to a country you feel you can support in a patriotic manner.

 

[savjacket9]

I disagree with you on multiple. And I don't want to get into a shouting match with you. I can tell that this means a lot to you, and that standing during the national anthem is equivalent to respecting those who serve in the military. That's fair. However, does it not also means standing for American and its way(s) of life. If someone on the principle of conscience finds a certain aspect of what has come to be acceptable about a certain aspect of the American way of life to be against freedom, is it not morally and constitutionally his/her duty as Americans to stand (or in this case sit) in protest against it. Historically, this voice of descent has been a powerful and necessary aspect of the American way of life and has led to tremendous and positive change. Wishing someone ill-will because they find aspects of American culture as oppressive and against freedom, seems more un-American to me than what Kaepernick has done. He is not against American, if anything he wants to make American even better than it is.

 

[AE 87]

I disagree with you on multiple. And I don't want to get into a shouting match with you. I can tell that this means a lot to you, and that standing during the national anthem is equivalent to respecting those who serve in the military. That's fair. However, does it not also means standing for American and its way(s) of life. If someone on the principle of conscience finds a certain aspect of what has come to be acceptable about a certain aspect of the American way of life to be against freedom, is it not morally and constitutionally his/her duty as Americans to stand (or in this case sit) in protest against it. Historically, this voice of descent has been a powerful and necessary aspect of the American way of life and has led to tremendous and positive change. Wishing someone ill-will because they find aspects of American culture as oppressive and against freedom, seems more un-American to me than what Kaepernick has done. He is not against American, if anything he wants to make American even better than it is.

His stated reason was that America oppresses African Americans and other racial minorities which he explained in part by local municipalities granting due process to officers involved in alleged wrongful death cases.

These are always tragic events but to suggest that they rise to national oppression of minorities belittles the actual social disgrace of previous decades and centuries where racism was legislated.

 

[savjacket9]

I do not think that it is a disgrace to the oppression that has been overcome, I believe that it is an attempt to continue that work. While the laws have changed and have done so much, there appears to still be some level of unequal treatment towards minorities specifically by some in law enforcement. It is not on the level that it was before, but it is still not good enough. Saying that he is disgracing what has been overcome is saying that we can ignore these tragic events and treat the level of equality we are at as good enough, because we are not openly lynching people in the streets.

 

[PBR549]

I disagree with you on multiple. And I don't want to get into a shouting match with you. I can tell that this means a lot to you, and that standing during the national anthem is equivalent to respecting those who serve in the military. That's fair. However, does it not also means standing for American and its way(s) of life. If someone on the principle of conscience finds a certain aspect of what has come to be acceptable about a certain aspect of the American way of life to be against freedom, is it not morally and constitutionally his/her duty as Americans to stand (or in this case sit) in protest against it. Historically, this voice of descent has been a powerful and necessary aspect of the American way of life and has led to tremendous and positive change. Wishing someone ill-will because they find aspects of American culture as oppressive and against freedom, seems more un-American to me than what Kaepernick has done. He is not against American, if anything he wants to make American even better than it is.

He's an idiot.

 

[AE 87]

I do not think that it is a disgrace to the oppression that has been overcome, I believe that it is an attempt to continue that work. While the laws have changed and have done so much, there appears to still be some level of unequal treatment towards minorities specifically by some in law enforcement. It is not on the level that it was before, but it is still not good enough. Saying that he is disgracing what has been overcome is saying that we can ignore these tragic events and treat the level of equality we are at as good enough, because we are not openly lynching people in the streets.

It's not a question of "good enough" but of a proper diagnosis of problem and blame. We shouldn't sacrifice truth for the sake of emotional satisfaction, imo.

 

[savjacket9]

I can agree that we should not sacrifice truth for the sake of emotional satisfaction. What would you then say is the proper diagnosis of the problem and blame? And what should be done if anything?

 

[Techster]

America is a beautiful country because we are allowed certain rights under the 1st amendment. Whether you agree with one man's POV or not, that is the beauty of being an American and all it entails. From the most patriotic speech to the most deplorable and vile filth that spews out of someone's pie hole...both are entitled to their views under our constitution.

These articles are pretty fascinating in how the Star Spangled banner became entrenched in American culture as our national anthem, and how over the years it's evolved:

https://theintercept.com/2016/08/28...-national-anthem-is-a-celebration-of-slavery/

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/6957582/the-history-national-anthem-sports-espn-magazine

 

[AE 87]

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/14/george-soros-funds-ferguson-protests-hopes-to-spur/

 

[Northeast Stinger]

America is a beautiful country because we are allowed certain rights under the 1st amendment. Whether you agree with one man's POV or not, that is the beauty of being an American and all it entails. From the most patriotic speech to the most deplorable and vile filth that spews out of someone's pie hole...both are entitled to their views under our constitution.

These articles are pretty fascinating in how the Star Spangled banner became entrenched in American culture as our national anthem, and how over the years it's evolved:

https://theintercept.com/2016/08/28...-national-anthem-is-a-celebration-of-slavery/

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/6957582/the-history-national-anthem-sports-espn-magazine

A minor thing that I also find fascinating is that people have only starting placing their hands over their hearts in the last few years. For over 3/4 of my life this no one ever did this unless they were holding a hat. Otherwise, people simply stood at attention. Placing your hand over your heart is really only required for saying the pledge but some people seem to think you are unpatriotic if you do not do that.

 

[forensicbuzz]

A minor thing that I also find fascinating is that people have only starting placing their hands over their hearts in the last few years. For over 3/4 of my life this no one ever did this unless they were holding a hat. Otherwise, people simply stood at attention. Placing your hand over your heart is really only required for saying the pledge but some people seem to think you are unpatriotic if you do not do that.

I'm 47 and I've been putting my hand on my heart when the National Anthem is played all my life. I'm not sure how old you are, but if 40+ years is less than 25% of your life...

 

[kg01]

I don't really have a problem with him attempting to take a stand. There are problems in the country that have been unaddressed for literally hundreds of years. There's no way to adequately cover what I'm referring to in this forum. It's a deep discussion that requires some open-mindedness and understanding on both sides. I hope people in a position to effect change are able to see past the nonsense and noise (on both sides) and truly address the issue.

Just wanted to chime in to say there's nothing wrong with acknowledging there's still some work to be done. "Protesting" the anthem doesn't mean you disrespect our soldiers, etc. Unfortunately this will probably degenerate into a referendum on him personally and whatever issue he's attempting to call attention to will be lost in all that.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I'm 47 and I've been putting my hand on my heart when the National Anthem is played all my life. I'm not sure how old you are, but if 40+ years is less than 25% of your life...

That's really odd.

We were taught in school (Georgia public schools) the rules of decorum around the flag and we were told to stand with our hands at our side and sing. When I was a young man I began to notice (primarily at Braves games) that fewer and fewer people were singing, to the point that I was virtually the only one in my area singing for years. It seemed like after many years of this people decided if they put their hand over their heart it excused them from singing.

Anyway, I still do not put my hand over my heart but I always try to sing. And when I see other people putting their hands over their heart it always makes me think they have confused the pledge with the anthem.

But then, most people get the display of the flag wrong. When the tea party first got started they had lots of demonstrations with people holding the flag upside down. They erroneously thought that the international sign of distress was appropriate. However, we live in a country in which displaying the flag upside down, or even burning it, is simultaneously inappropriate decorum directed toward the flag but protected free speech because of what the flag stands for.

 

[reubenjet]

I see the flag as a representation of the U.S.A. being our "Motherland". When we sing the national anthem and stand at attention we are in a sense honoring our "Mother". If we are citizens of this "Motherland" then we should act accordingly when a symbol of that "Mother" is displayed for recognition. There is a time for protest and if you choose to protest during the time that has been set aside to honor your "Mother" then I would expect nothing less than your "Father" to come knock some sense into you! If you disagree with how she is handling things then you can have your say at a later time, just don't insult my "Mother" like that!

 

[JacketFromUGA]

I see the flag as a representation of the U.S.A. being our "Motherland". When we sing the national anthem and stand at attention we are in a sense honoring our "Mother". If we are citizens of this "Motherland" then we should act accordingly when a symbol of that "Mother" is displayed for recognition. There is a time for protest and if you choose to protest during the time that has been set aside to honor your "Mother" then I would expect nothing less than your "Father" to come knock some sense into you! If you disagree with how she is handling things then you can have your say at a later time, just don't insult my "Mother" like that!

So you a commie.

Spoiler

I'm guessing most people here aren't going to get the joke

 

[forensicbuzz]

That's really odd.

We were taught in school (Georgia public schools) the rules of decorum around the flag and we were told to stand with our hands at our side and sing. When I was a young man I began to notice (primarily at Braves games) that fewer and fewer people were singing, to the point that I was virtually the only one in my area singing for years. It seemed like after many years of this people decided if they put their hand over their heart it excused them from singing.

Anyway, I still do not put my hand over my heart but I always try to sing. And when I see other people putting their hands over their heart it always makes me think they have confused the pledge with the anthem.

But then, most people get the display of the flag wrong. When the tea party first got started they had lots of demonstrations with people holding the flag upside down. They erroneously thought that the international sign of distress was appropriate. However, we live in a country in which displaying the flag upside down, or even burning it, is simultaneously inappropriate decorum directed toward the flag but protected free speech because of what the flag stands for.

I spent 5th and 6th grades in Georgia and that's how we did it in Bremen. That's what my dad, who was an officer in the USMC and served in Vietnam, taught me. I'm not sure what's "correct," but as long as people are respectful of others around them, I won't criticize. Kaepernick has the right to protest as he deems appropriate. As long as he's not infringing on someone else's right to participate in the singing of the National Anthem or whatever, I'm not offended.

(Not directed to the @Northeast Stinger)

Just because you see his protest as disrespectful to his country doesn't mean he sees it as disrespectful to the military or specific individuals. Generally when we protest, we're protesting against the establishment and/or the leaders of the establishment. Are there better, less devisive ways to protest, probably. To a large segment of the American population, his actions overshadow his intent, which is to shine a spotlight on what he feels is injustice. Unfortunately, his approach alienates a majority out-of-hand.

 

[WreckedbyWhiskey]

Niners QB refusing to stand for national anthem and by golly not backing down. God bless our soldiers, marines, airmen, and all who have given their lives to defend this moron's 1st amendment right to do so. NFL isn't required to support that free speech however and I hope he stays suspended as long as this continues. Ditto any other player who does the same.

I'm sure the suspension won't last. When he resumes play you can bet your *** I'll be pulling for every defender to slobberknock the hell out of him. Some of those defenders have family that serve to protect our freedom. Bust his ***.

Honestly, if you feel this country is so "oppressive", please feel free to immigrate to a country you feel you can support in a patriotic manner.

So because a professional football player didn't stand during the National Anthem, you desire for him to get injured. Says more about you than it does about him.

1. It's Colin's absolute right to not stand during the national anthem
2. Suggesting that he should go to another country is absurd - if he really wanted to do that, he would have. Instead he cares enough about the country to provide feedback and expect better
3. The US is not perfect, deal w/ that - there is plenty room for improvement in a LOT of ways

Are you really upset that he didn't stand during the national anthem or did you just want the credit of starting a controversial thread? It's funny how some people react to a professional football player's personal protest with little political influence when other politicians have claimed that the President of the United States is in collusion with anti-US terrorist organizations.

We all love this country and we all have family members that have served this country in a number of ways (including Colin). Can the man get a little R-E-S-P-E-C-T??!

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Also funny that no seemed to notice him sitting out the national anthem until someone asked him a question about it and he gave an answer that some people did not like. Prior to that he was doing his protest in a quiet unobtrusive way and not interfering with any other person's right to honor their country.

 

[RonJohn]

I am not sold on his explanation. If you are going to protest as a celebrity and try to make a difference, I would think that you would announce your intentions before acting. He didn't announce that he was upset and determined to make a difference until he was asked about not standing. If he had announced that he was going to protest for a cause after being in the Super Bowl, he would have had a larger voice. As of now, even without controversy, he might not be in the NFL after next week. That leads me to believe that it is quite possible that he wants to believe he is cut for controversy and not erosion of skills.

 

[Stinger90]

NM