Justin?

[tech_wreck47]

Wait a minute. You can't have it both ways.
Can't make excuses that "he is running for his life" and then say " pro qbs miss throws".

So nothing is his fault???

I wasnt aware that I said he was running for his life? I'm not sure what you are trying to get at? I was specifically talking about the throw to stewart.

 

[tech_wreck47]

It's not the first time he's missed that throw. Another one that immediately sticks out in my head is the one to Qua against ND. Same throw. I'm not saying he isn't a great player. That throw over the middle of the field he struggles with. He is not good at putting it out there and letting his guy go get it. He is really good on balls he can throw a little more firm and sideline routes. Pointing out something that needs work doesn't mean I don't like the kid or think we need to make a change. Quite the opposite. I see the potential he has and want him to be better. I bet if you asked PJ and JT himself he would tell you that's his biggest weakness in the passing game. He will be fine, but he has not really played well outside of the first two games.

I agree that there are much bigger problems though. I just don't think it's off limits to talk about the flaws of one position group or player and others are off limits.

I agree with what you are saying, my comment was towards the ppl who are making it seem like you should make that throw 100% of the time. Jt has hurt us this year for sure, and while he was way better last year, he also had a way better supporting cast. Sometime you are only as good as the other 10 around you. There's no doubt in my mind that if he had the same blocking and skilled positions around him as last year he would be doing way better. Not saying he wouldn't be making mistakes, but I do agree those throws down field have not been great so far.

 

[JorgeJonas]

It's not the first time he's missed that throw. Another one that immediately sticks out in my head is the one to Qua against ND. Same throw. I'm not saying he isn't a great player. That throw over the middle of the field he struggles with. He is not good at putting it out there and letting his guy go get it. He is really good on balls he can throw a little more firm and sideline routes. Pointing out something that needs work doesn't mean I don't like the kid or think we need to make a change. Quite the opposite. I see the potential he has and want him to be better. I bet if you asked PJ and JT himself he would tell you that's his biggest weakness in the passing game. He will be fine, but he has not really played well outside of the first two games.

I agree that there are much bigger problems though. I just don't think it's off limits to talk about the flaws of one position group or player and others are off limits.

No one is saying you can't be critical of Thomas, or anyone else for that matter. The issue is that you identified a single throw today. That's the margin of error he is working with right now. That's an impossible standard for anyone to meet.

 

[Milwaukee]

You're asking him to bat 1.000. No one can live up to that.

I'm asking him to bat 1000? Where did you draw that assumption from?

No one is saying you can't be critical of Thomas, or anyone else for that matter. The issue is that you identified a single throw today. That's the margin of error he is working with right now. That's an impossible standard for anyone to meet.

I pointed out the obvious throw to Stewart and also glaring misreads on the mesh, as well as pitches. Not even gonna get started on ball security. Maybe read my post, may clarify some things. I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm not expecting JT to be perfect. I don't think anyone in this thread even said that.

 

[Lee]

No one is saying you can't be critical of Thomas, or anyone else for that matter. The issue is that you identified a single throw today. That's the margin of error he is working with right now. That's an impossible standard for anyone to meet.

I think you may need to go back and re read my post. I didn't just single out that throw, that was a very small part of what I wrote. I also mentioned how loose he has been and continues to be with the ball as well as similar throws that he has routinely missed. I pointed to the Qua throw in the ND game as another example that immediately came to mind. I mentioned that he has trouble with that specific throw and he has struggled to complete it when we have a guy running free and he has to lay it out there for him to run under. I'm not asking for perfection and trust that he will get better. He will learn that it is better to under throw that ball a little bit and complete it rather than try to make the perfect throw on a line.

He does much better with this on the sideline routes. Not sure why he struggles with the throw up the seam. I don't know if this is a trust thing or possibly a vision issue. There have been several times where an aback will be running free right up the seam and he doesn't see him (Bostic on the Waller TD in the MSU game last year is the first to pop in my head). I know he is capable of it because I've seen him do it. He just needs to get better at it and it stands out more this year because our offense has been so anemic. If we missed that play last year. We would've picked up the first down on the next 2 plays and still gone in and scored. We can't do that this year, so it hurts even more when we miss gimmes like that.

The positive we can take away from all of this madness is that the young guys are starting to grow up and it will par dividends next year and beyond. The throw and catch from JT to Lynch was nothing short of spectacular and gives me hope that JT is starting to get a comfort level with some of the young guys. Hopefully through the rest of the year, Spring, Summer and Fall camp, he will continue to develop that with some of the young skill guys. That is what made him and Smelter so good. They seemed to see the same things and knew exactly what the other was going to do. That chemistry is the only reason we won a few games last year. Those 3rd/4th and longs that they converted were huge and played a significant factor in our success last year. We don't have that this year (nor the pass pro).

 

[iceeater1969]

He threw for 175 in 4th on called plays w some over middle.
How many interceptions?
Qb rating?
We can pass but it always takes tto long to get play called and snapped. Plays are limited by formation, and somewhat predictable= last play of 4th true fresh mld comes in (been prettygood receiver s when we motion him down sideline. ) , we roll right and pass into area with three recievers all who are covered no one goes long. Justin throws to mld who is covered but if throw is low and not high could not have been batted away. If we took time to practice pass as well as pitch we would be effective.

I said that the pass should be an integral part of the game plan. First dive first dive ( repeated on purpose. I love the dive) then the pass -short, then the rocket, then the counter, THEN when loosened up the full TO with emphasis on pitch. So far this year catching the TO has been a pretty congested location. If they respected the pass, I say we would have enough spce for the pitch to be effective.

Some say it is heresy to make passing integral as WE RUN the DAMN BALL.
I say defenses with DC are catching up and we need plan on throwing them a curve.

 

[BainbridgeJacket]

Back when I played QB, I started out with some really talented receivers. I would throw without thinking and put the ball in perfect spots. We're talking 40 yards down field inches over the DBs fingers with just enough space for my guy to drag his feet inbounds. Next season, those guys were gone and all of a sudden my throws were looking a lot worse. Guys weren't making adjustments when the ball was in the air and just letting the ball hit the ground or not boxing out defenders. I started thinking about where I was putting the ball instead of just throwing and got a lot worse. I felt like my target zone went from a garage to a laundry hamper. A shoulder injury later and I'm playing WR. You best bet I was making adjustments for my qb.

Jt is not trusting the people around him at this point. There are no fixes other than an offseason of 7 on 7 to build that trust back. Maybe 7 on 0 work after practice this week. Completing passes against air would even help.

 

[stingyoa$$]

I think you may need to go back and re read my post. I didn't just single out that throw, that was a very small part of what I wrote. I also mentioned how loose he has been and continues to be with the ball as well as similar throws that he has routinely missed. I pointed to the Qua throw in the ND game as another example that immediately came to mind. I mentioned that he has trouble with that specific throw and he has struggled to complete it when we have a guy running free and he has to lay it out there for him to run under. I'm not asking for perfection and trust that he will get better. He will learn that it is better to under throw that ball a little bit and complete it rather than try to make the perfect throw on a line.

He does much better with this on the sideline routes. Not sure why he struggles with the throw up the seam. I don't know if this is a trust thing or possibly a vision issue. There have been several times where an aback will be running free right up the seam and he doesn't see him (Bostic on the Waller TD in the MSU game last year is the first to pop in my head). I know he is capable of it because I've seen him do it. He just needs to get better at it and it stands out more this year because our offense has been so anemic. If we missed that play last year. We would've picked up the first down on the next 2 plays and still gone in and scored. We can't do that this year, so it hurts even more when we miss gimmes like that.

The positive we can take away from all of this madness is that the young guys are starting to grow up and it will par dividends next year and beyond. The throw and catch from JT to Lynch was nothing short of spectacular and gives me hope that JT is starting to get a comfort level with some of the young guys. Hopefully through the rest of the year, Spring, Summer and Fall camp, he will continue to develop that with some of the young skill guys. That is what made him and Smelter so good. They seemed to see the same things and knew exactly what the other was going to do. That chemistry is the only reason we won a few games last year. Those 3rd/4th and longs that they converted were huge and played a significant factor in our success last year. We don't have that this year (nor the pass pro).

I have to respectfully disagree with you. We were loaded with talent last year in all the skilled positions. Go back and look at the ugag game. Perkins, Hill, Bostic, at AB, Laskey at BB and Waller at WR. Those were excellent players that were tough and played the game the right way. While everyone thought JT was the "star" of the offense, these guys carried him. For those who thought PJ's offense made these guys look good, I think these guys made PJ's offense look good. The guys we have on the field right now just aren't that good.....yet. Time will tell.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

JT can play better. There is no excuse for him not securing the ball better when running. He has to fix that. He is still the least of our worries on O and brings major upside to that position. I think most here are arguing about degrees here. Can he play better? Yes. Is it hard to play better with what he's working with? Yes. Is he the best we have had since Godsey? I think most would say yes. Will he play better when others around him do likewise? Without a doubt.

 

[Declinometer]

Everyone, everyone knows you don't take a sake on 4th down when you are in desperation mode. Throw the ball down field and hope for the best.

 

[Declinometer]

The loss of Smelter, who was loss for a few games last year that were won, and Waller, who was a question mark at the beginning of his senior season, are a Red Herring. Our WR have caught virtually everything they could get their hands on this season.

 

[Captain killem]

You know I'm tired of hearing about the "lack of skill players" defense about JT performance. All I will say is Clinton Lynch, Ricky Jeune, Marcus Marshall. Some may need to rewatch some of the games without the plays they make we get blowed out. Now am I saying JT sucks no I think he has potential to be great. His decision making is poor this year. All I have to hang my hat on, is hopefully he will get better. I believe in holding people accountable and a lot of the mistakes are on JT and the oline. Hopefully the week off will do us some good. Go Jackets.

 

[Boomergump]

First of all, let me say I am proud of all of you for how you have handled this thread. It is obviously a hot topic and has the potential for a lot of name calling and personal attacks. That hasn't happened. When we characterize other's opinions, it is different than attacking the person. Thanks for that. OK, I am done moderating.

If there is one true-ism that applies across all sports it is that you can tell a lot more about a player when things are going poorly than you can when things are going well. When it is all said and done, JT may look back at this year as the most important in his playing career. Certainly, he has played well at times, making huge plays, but he has been very inconsistent. That is the bottom line. Last year, we all quickly anointed him a quiet leader, which was essentially true, but what we are finding is that it is easier to be that kind of soft spoken leader, playing loose, when you have confident effective players around you. JT didn't have to PROVIDE a lot leadership last year. The chemistry worked with the teammates. It is pretty obvious to me that this 2015 offensive football team lacks a rudder. There is a void that is not being filled. The senior players are not stepping up to elevate their own play, nor those around them. I don't really see any "wedge players" driving people apart, but I don't see a lot of "glue players" either. As a coach, I usually told my kids you are either one or the other. Well, our glue is pretty watered down.

Thomas is doing what a thousand other BOWL MVP type players have done before him. He is pressing and he is playing tight. I have been in slumps before that went a long time. When that stuff happens and you let your brain get in the way, it is hard to play at your NATURAL level. Slumps get extended because players think too hard and try too hard. The way out is to practice with GREAT INTENSITY and FOCUS to develop muscle memory and instincts and then just relax in games. Well, relaxing when you are 3-6 and the guy taking the snaps is easier said than done. I feel sure JT takes a lot on his own shoulders. He has character and he WANTS BADLY to turn this thing around. Make no mistake, this is a growth step that this kid is fighting his way through for the first time in his life. The stakes are higher. There is more needed of him and things are not going well around him. No QB plays as well without protection or consistent and predictable skill players around, but the point is well taken, he could have done better with the hand dealt him. He has to learn to do so. The answer is NOT to force it. He is not in Prattville where he can just take the game over. That doesn't happen at this level without great weapons around you.

IMHO the loss of TB has been a crushing blow this season. I think JT would have benefitted tremendously by having a few series here or there on the sideline to see what was going on from a different perspective, maybe even for an entire quarter or half, depending on how well TB was moving the team. TB is big and physical, but he also plays well within himself.

Somebody mentioned the weakness throwing deep balls over the middle compared to the sidelines. I guess my response is: what QB doesn't? Any centerfielder will tell you the hardest balls to judge are the ones hit right at you. Similarly, throws made where receivers are running straight down your line of sight are tougher too. Did he miss that toss to Stewart? Absolutely. Should he have been able to complete that throw? Absolutely yes, it was a poor throw, one of the few that he had time to set his feet and everything. However, let's not pretend that it is only poor QBs who miss those throws. They all do occasionally.

One of JT's greatest attributes is his ability to throw on the run and keep his eyes down field. Well, throwing on the run and throwing on a dead sprint are two different things. One is under control and the other isn't. JT is being put into a dead sprint too early and too often this season, so much so, that it is very tough to trust the pocket when he has one. Playing through that is tough mentally, but at some point, you have to trust, even in adverse circumstances, in order to play your best. The fog of war is a hard to get used to operating in. There is danger everywhere and circumstances are unpredictable, but you still have to find a way to get it done.

 

[QuickKick]

Just a nitpick but I think it's unreasonable to expect JT to be an effective dropback passer. He's too short. Of course he'll throw off the back foot if he's pressured. He's trying to throw over the people in his face. Needs too be more of a rollout passer. Of course the routes need to be a little shorter or develop faster.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

Outside the two cake walk games, Justin looks more like Reggie Ball every day. His passing accuracy has taken four or five steps backward. It looks like he refuses to pass over the middle for some unknown reason and limits his throws to sidelines only. His reads this year have been suspect. I know the OL has been awful in pass protection, but he doesn't handle people being in his face very well. Don't reply about all the AB injuries because every team has them. Didn't OSU loose two QB's last year? Maybe PJ is a QB killer, I don't know, but in year 8 we have no passing game and that is ridiculous.

Probably just homesick, or maybe had a fight with his girlfriend. It happens.

 

[Jerry the Jacket]

The bottom line is Justin is just not what we thought he would be. I hope Coach Johnson will open up the QB competition this coming off season and not simply annoit JT our QB. We have to show marked improvement in a lot of areas, including the QB position. If this is the best performance we can expect, 2016 will look a lot like 2015. I think the whole operation needs to be disected and cleansed.

Go Jackets!

 

[4shotB]

Playing through that is tough mentally, but at some point, you have to trust, even in adverse circumstances, in order to play your best. The fog of war is a hard to get used to operating in. There is danger everywhere and circumstances are unpredictable, but you still have to find a way to get it done.

well said as always Boomergump. The "confidence vs. performance" conundrum. Easy to discuss but hard to figure out. I remember a few years back (maybe more than a few) going through a bad slump in golf with my putter. I couldn't make a 2-3 footer if my life depended on it. So I started doing some research and reading tips from the pros and their gurus.

I don't remember which guy said it (maybe Trevino or Miller, one of the guys from that era), but they asked how or why he was so successful on his short putts. He said wtte "I approach them and strike the ball with confidence". The writer asked how he gained the confidence to do so. Reply "By making all of my short putts". I laughed, but I started getting my confidence back by making my putts again. What happened to fix it, I will never understand. In baseball, as you well know, the only way to get out of a slump is by hitting the ball. Of course, golf and hitting are entirely individually controlled events.

Golfers and baseball players expect to go through slumps ( which may make them easier to get out of in a weird sort of way). I don't think QB's expect to do so. Will be interesting to see how JT responds. The NFL has been littered with QB's who "lost it" and never recovered. Most of them seem to have been shellshocked by getting beat up and/or getting thrust into the fire to soon or by playing in the wrong system for their skill sets.

Bottom line, it will be interesting to see how well JT responds to this year's turn of events.

 

[wvGT11]

JT is making mistakes that he didn't make last year. Again though to his credit, he is working with a very young O-line which to me is making is job even tougher. Notice how many times he has zero protection even if it is an option play or a passing. He is still probably the best QB we have had under Johnson. I just wonder if it is his mistakes that are throwing off the o-line or if it is the rest of the 0-line that is causing him to make mistakes
Last year everything seemed to click together as the season progressed from JTs performance to the rest of the 0-line. That hasn't happened this year, nothing seems to mesh, and thats the thing with this option offense, its a collective effort

 

[MWBATL]

Our offense has been putrid. I don't blame the QB or the scheme or the play calling. Our offense would be putrid no matter how we lined up or what plays we ran. We simply don't have many very good players.

I do think this has to be one of CPJ's worst offensive performances since he arrived at GT. This following such a record breaking offensive season...it's disappointing and disconcerting.

But I just don't see much speed out there on offense outside of JeT, and I certainly don't see effective blocking.

I am not happy seeing this 8 years into CPJ's regime. I am also not happy with what I have seen on the field in 5 of the last 6 years from CPJ. We are definitely a middle of the road program, who can rise up once in a blue moon with a season like last year. But our norm appears to be 7-5 or 6-6. We have now been passed by Duke (0-2) and UNC (0-2) and we are being raced down by VT and Miami (both of whom we beat last year but who are likely to be favored against us this year). Go back 6 years and the numbers are NOT pretty:

Duke 4-2 (lost last 2)

UNC 4-2 (lost last 2)

Virginia 4-2

Miami 1-4

Clemson 2-4

Virginia Tech 1-4

Georgia 1-4

That's 5-16 against "the Big Four" but it is also 14-7 against other Coastal foes (including Pitt) so we line up as 19-23 against every year rivals. You are what your record is, so we are sub-0.500 against the teams we play every year. This is how we are in the CPJ regime (I am excluding 2008/9 when he was playing with Gailey's players).

I am NOT complaining about the scheme of play calling or even the coaching necessarily. I just don't think we have the athletes to be any better. CPJ has said repeatedly that "we are what we are" and if kids want to play in full, 85,000 seat stadiums every game, that's just not who we are. We just don't have the athletes, and I don't know if any other coach could be that much different than CPJ has been for us.

However, if we are not careful, we will lose our fanbase slowly but surely. I am not sure wins like last Saturday, and season's like last year, are enough to maintain our fanbase. We have seen our fanbase desert a sinking ship in basketball to our real determent. Recruiting has suffered even further and results have gone along with it in a downward spiral. I fear we are on the verge of something similar in football. Another 6-6 year next year will simply reinforce the image of us as a below 0.500 program (against P-5 teams).

Not sure we have what it takes to turn this around, as it isn't a coaching change that would do it.

CPJ (and Braine before him) may be right. "We are who we are." I don't know the answer. I hope someone else does.

PS- I do have to give CPJ credit for winning some big games here at GT. This post is NOT a rant about CPJ or the triple option offense. Please don't construe it as such!

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I wonder if we roll him out too much on pass plays. It has worked some and failed some. I know his height is an issue in the pocket but I'm not convinced it makes pocket passing impossible. Other short QBs have done it. Joe did, Flutie did. They had to find lanes to throw through. Even tall QBs have to do that but to a lesser extent. Scrambling from the pocket can kill a D. I think our constant roll outs negate that part of his game.

Pass pro sux either way though so I know I don't have the answer to this.