Justin Thomas and the offense

forensicbuzz

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Nesbitt and Washington had different styles. The offense was tweaked to fit their strengths.

Our coaches never could figure out what Vad's strengths were, or they never developed Vad's weaknesses. Short of that, if they realized he didn't "fit" the offense, they should have started to play JT more...as many on here have pointed out. Why invest valuable reps on a QB if his longterm potential in this offense was limited? THAT half is on the coaches.

Vad was responsible for the execution. The talent and athleticism was there. 2012 was a great example of what he could do. 2013 Vad, for various reasons, just didn't work out.

To say it's 90% on Vad is pretty weak, and absolving the staff from responsibility.
just my opinion, but I think as a RS sophomore, first-year starter, VL did well enough. I think had Vad stayed and put his heart into this system, we would have seen the same progression from SO to JR to SR that we saw with Josh and Tevin. Since he's not going to be here for his JR and SR years, we get to start over at the RS SO, first-year starter again. I expect to see the same level of development and growth with JT that we saw with the first two guys.
 

UgaBlows

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great read, i would have to say that for our former quarterback last year, the answer to question 1 was a big maybe? and 3 a resounding NO. It's easy to see how perfect Nesbitt was for Johnson after you read this.

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"The first question is, regardless of athletic ability, does the prospect have the willingness to get off the ground after a "big hit", call the same play and run it aggressively? If the answer is "yes" he has the mental and physical toughness to be an option quarterback. Mental and physical toughness is the quarterback's ability to remain poised, confident, determined, and courageous regardless of what happens on the field, or off the field. Mental and physical toughness, not sheer athletic ability is the key ingredient in a winning quarterback. A quarterback who has average athletic ability and endowed with mental and physical toughness is more likely to win than a quarterback with excellent athletic ability and marginal toughness.

The second question, does the quarterback have enough athletic ability (speed, quickness, balance) to run for a first down on third and seven when the defense forces the quarterback to carry the ball on an option play? If the answer is "yes" the quarterback can be an effective option quarterback.

The third question, does the prospect have the willingness to be an option quarterback? For the answer to be "yes" the quarterback prospect must be willing to execute option plays, not just tolerate running the option."
 

dressedcheeseside

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That's what worries me a lot. The center is responsible for the line calls and checking the QB, now we replace Finch's experience with Burden's inexperience. Good thing our schedule starts soft so they can adjust.

I think JT can make the down field throws, not to the extent of Vad who could do it effortlessly, but JT will probably need to "muscle up" in order to make those throws. That means he will need to buy time behind the pocket. That awful looking sack against Miami we analyzed to death in another thread is an example of JT needing to set his feet and square his shoulders to make that throw. I think Vad easily makes that throw on the run.
Freddie Burden was really turning some heads before his injury. There's a good reason he's the odds on favorite to replace Finch. That said, there's no telling how well he comes back from such an injury.

LOL on blaming JT for that sack.
 

dressedcheeseside

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great read, i would have to say that for our former quarterback last year, the answer to question 1 was a big maybe? and 3 a resounding NO. It's easy to see how perfect Nesbitt was for Johnson after you read this.

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"The first question is, regardless of athletic ability, does the prospect have the willingness to get off the ground after a "big hit", call the same play and run it aggressively? If the answer is "yes" he has the mental and physical toughness to be an option quarterback. Mental and physical toughness is the quarterback's ability to remain poised, confident, determined, and courageous regardless of what happens on the field, or off the field. Mental and physical toughness, not sheer athletic ability is the key ingredient in a winning quarterback. A quarterback who has average athletic ability and endowed with mental and physical toughness is more likely to win than a quarterback with excellent athletic ability and marginal toughness.

The second question, does the quarterback have enough athletic ability (speed, quickness, balance) to run for a first down on third and seven when the defense forces the quarterback to carry the ball on an option play? If the answer is "yes" the quarterback can be an effective option quarterback.

The third question, does the prospect have the willingness to be an option quarterback? For the answer to be "yes" the quarterback prospect must be willing to execute option plays, not just tolerate running the option."
This also explains why he stuck with Washington in '12.
 

Dustman

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Fwiw, "the other JT" and best player on our defense proclaimed a couple years ago that Justin was the future of GT football.
 

Techster

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Freddie Burden was really turning some heads before his injury. There's a good reason he's the odds on favorite to replace Finch. That said, there's no telling how well he comes back from such an injury.

LOL on blaming JT for that sack.

Dude, re-read what I wrote. I didnt blame JT for that sack.

You're reaching.
 

Techster

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just my opinion, but I think as a RS sophomore, first-year starter, VL did well enough. I think had Vad stayed and put his heart into this system, we would have seen the same progression from SO to JR to SR that we saw with Josh and Tevin. Since he's not going to be here for his JR and SR years, we get to start over at the RS SO, first-year starter again. I expect to see the same level of development and growth with JT that we saw with the first two guys.

Yup...I made the very same comment in another thread.

Its JT time. Different style than Vad. He'll be more exciting on the edge and in space than Vad. Time for GT fans to rally around JT!
 

UgaBlows

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you pretty much stated that Vad would have made that throw on the run with ease and that JT didn't have the arm for it and needed to set his feet and that was why he got creamed. Sounds an awful lot like your blaming JT to me.
 

Techster

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you pretty much stated that Vad would have made that throw on the run with ease and that JT didn't have the arm for it and needed to set his feet and that was why he got creamed. Sounds an awful lot like your blaming JT to me.

No, that's pointing out how one QB needs to set to make that type of throw, and the other QB could have made that throw without setting his feet.

There's a difference. HOWEVER, had he not needed to set his feet, he could have made that throw...he would have been clobbered anyways. I pointed that out in the other thread.
 

DvilleJacket

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Not to poop on the parade but Vad was the buzz last year and it just didnt work like everyone envisioned. I believe Justin will end up a pretty good Qb for this offense, but it may take half the season for things to start to click.
 

GTJoeBrew

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One thing is for sure... The job is open for the taking, and it is up to the individuals to step up and take it.

If you wonder what characteristics are important to CPJ, they are outlined in the article below.

http://www.footballxos.com/download...bone-offense/Option-Thoughts-Paul-Johnson.doc

Here's the point that stands out to me the most:
7. Don't cutback. Run to the option alley on a keep to run away from the defense.

BTW, where did this document come from. It is really good.
 

vamosjackets

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Some wise posts here saying JT can be great but will need time to develop this year. Tempering the expectations for JT at first is important. BUT, the question is will that be the way the fanbase in general and MBOB will evaluate JT, CPJ, and the offense this year? It seems obvious to me the offense is going to be humming with JT at some point and will be in good hands over the long run. I think MBOB will have the wisdom to look at the progress over the year rather than raw numbers; hopefully that will be the case. A lot of people saying CPJ has to win x number of games this year to stay. If we lose a few we could've won the first half of the year but then win some we could've lost the second half due to the natural progression of our QB, I think that should be taken into consideration by fans and administration.
 

gtg936g

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Here's the point that stands out to me the most:
7. Don't cutback. Run to the option alley on a keep to run away from the defense.

BTW, where did this document come from. It is really good.


The first place I saw it was his playbook from Southern. It has been retyped and posted on multiple coaching sites.


If you run the offense the way CPJ wants the QB does not take a beating. If you cannot run the option, and your line is struggling to pass block, the QB is going to have to carry the rock, and will take more hits. That is just life in a run first team
 

GTJoeBrew

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The first place I saw it was his playbook from Southern. It has been retyped and posted on multiple coaching sites.


If you run the offense the way CPJ wants the QB does not take a beating. If you cannot run the option, and your line is struggling to pass block, the QB is going to have to carry the rock, and will take more hits. That is just life in a run first team
That point stood out to me because Vad would cut back and get tackled for a loss quite a bit. I'm sure that Johnson pulled his hair out every time that happened. Time will tell if Justin will be able to follow these points, but from what I have saw he will do better. Said the same thing about Vad two years ago though...
 

takethepoints

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No, that's pointing out how one QB needs to set to make that type of throw, and the other QB could have made that throw without setting his feet.
I think you've pinpointed one of Vad's biggest problems here: his tendency to fling the ball instead of throw it. Nesbitt did the same thing. If you have a strong arm, the temptation to fling the ball is hard to resist. Oth, that's one of the reasons you get interceptions and overthrown balls; the elbow is too low when your throw and, since you aren't set up, your shoulders don't follow through. Both of these QBs were more accurate on longer throws because they had to set up first.

I hope JT doesn't develop this habit, though his arm strength is easily great enough to lead him astray. He looked fundamentally right last year in limited action. It's a problem you'd like to have, btw, since you can cure it with practice. Oth, you'll seldom see a weak arm become a strong one.
 

AE 87

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imo, Justin's passing mechanics have been better since high school. In limited action, he seemed to step up into the pocket pretty well also.
 

Techster

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I think you've pinpointed one of Vad's biggest problems here: his tendency to fling the ball instead of throw it. Nesbitt did the same thing. If you have a strong arm, the temptation to fling the ball is hard to resist. Oth, that's one of the reasons you get interceptions and overthrown balls; the elbow is too low when your throw and, since you aren't set up, your shoulders don't follow through. Both of these QBs were more accurate on longer throws because they had to set up first.

I hope JT doesn't develop this habit, though his arm strength is easily great enough to lead him astray. He looked fundamentally right last year in limited action. It's a problem you'd like to have, btw, since you can cure it with practice. Oth, you'll seldom see a weak arm become a strong one.

Yup guys with big arms tend to "trust" it more, and it will get them in trouble sometimes. We saw that with Vad in quite a few instances. Vad had a good arm, probably well above average for the college level, but not as big of an arm as he thought on some of the throws he made.

JT had a little of it as well. The out route he threw against Miami was evidence of it. The more JT plays, the more he'll understand the speed of the DBs on this level and how his arm strength compares to their ability to break on the ball. That's just experience. What JT will stress more compared to Vad is the decision making of the DB on the perimeter. With JT, especially on rollouts, the DBs will have to honor his speed on the edges putting more stress on reading the play. If the DB chooses to support the run because JT is out of the box, he better make the right read because a bad read could let the receiver a few steps behind him. If the DB chooses to play the receiver, it gives JT a bigger gap on the second level. I'll take my odds with JT on the second level.

It will definitely be interesting to see how CPJ schemes to put stress on the defense with JT's speed in mind. He's got a totally different dimension at an X spot (since most defenses don't account for the QB). Might we see the quadruple option?!
 

Boomergump

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Yup guys with big arms tend to "trust" it more, and it will get them in trouble sometimes. We saw that with Vad in quite a few instances. Vad had a good arm, probably well above average for the college level, but not as big of an arm as he thought on some of the throws he made.

JT had a little of it as well. The out route he threw against Miami was evidence of it. The more JT plays, the more he'll understand the speed of the DBs on this level and how his arm strength compares to their ability to break on the ball. That's just experience. What JT will stress more compared to Vad is the decision making of the DB on the perimeter. With JT, especially on rollouts, the DBs will have to honor his speed on the edges putting more stress on reading the play. If the DB chooses to support the run because JT is out of the box, he better make the right read because a bad read could let the receiver a few steps behind him. If the DB chooses to play the receiver, it gives JT a bigger gap on the second level. I'll take my odds with JT on the second level.

It will definitely be interesting to see how CPJ schemes to put stress on the defense with JT's speed in mind. He's got a totally different dimension at an X spot (since most defenses don't account for the QB). Might we see the quadruple option?!
Good points. Countless times last season on the rollout, Vad's decision was to force the ball down field rather than run for a gimmee ten yards. He really didn't force that decision much from the defender because he hated to run.
 
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