Justin Thomas and the offense

Boomergump

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Clearly, Vad and the coaching staff had different agendas or visions, if you will. That was the root cause of the problem. Vad wanted the offense to become something different. That is where his heart was. The coaching staff wanted us to become GOOD at SOMETHING. That something needed to be the base offense for us to have a chance at winning in 2013. Placing blame, or proportioning blame, is not the important thing here. These things happen all the time in the world and when they do, changes happen. I don't think the staff failed to demonstrate the ability to develop a QB in this case. It was more of a situation involving differing visions.
 

bat_082994

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Clearly, Vad and the coaching staff had different agendas or visions, if you will. That was the root cause of the problem. Vad wanted the offense to become something different. That is where his heart was. The coaching staff wanted us to become GOOD at SOMETHING. That something needed to be the base offense for us to have a chance at winning in 2013. Placing blame, or proportioning blame, is not the important thing here. These things happen all the time in the world and when they do, changes happen. I don't think the staff failed to demonstrate the ability to develop a QB in this case. It was more of a situation involving differing visions.
Couldn't have said it better. Thanks Boomer! Great post!
 

awbuzz

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can we close the book on Vad? that horse has been beaten into oblivion, the same arguments and discussions abut him have gone on in umpteen different threads now

You're right. Let's look to the future. VL tried and it didn't look like it would "work" for lots of reasons - O-line, missed assignments/blocks, reads, not stepping into pass, etc. I am sure that the staff sent the palyers they assumed gave us the best chance to win each week onto the field (short of disciplinary issues).

Time to look forward and await the splendors of Spring Practice and see what what options (no pun intended) at QB we have look.
 

dressedcheeseside

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Nesbitt and Washington had different styles. The offense was tweaked to fit their strengths.

Our coaches never could figure out what Vad's strengths were, or they never developed Vad's weaknesses. Short of that, if they realized he didn't "fit" the offense, they should have started to play JT more...as many on here have pointed out. Why invest valuable reps on a QB if his longterm potential in this offense was limited? THAT half is on the coaches.

Vad was responsible for the execution. The talent and athleticism was there. 2012 was a great example of what he could do. 2013 Vad, for various reasons, just didn't work out.

To say it's 90% on Vad is pretty weak, and absolving the staff from responsibility.
That entire post is your opinion and you're are most welcome to it. When you try to pass it off as fact, it's humorous.

I'll give you Vad has very high athletic potential to run our offense. That said, nobody knows his mental potential for grasping the offense or his will/desire to do so. Not having the latter (will/desire), which he readily admits to, was why he never reached his full potential, imo. I believe if he had fully embraced the core concepts of the offense and dedicated himself to them fully, we'd have seen a much better outcome. That's my opinion and I'll state it as such.
 

dressedcheeseside

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Personally, I think Vad saw the writing on the wall. He knew his chances of holding off JT as the starter for another season were dwindling. That was probably a part in his decision to transfer as well. He is no dummy. Players can tell who is progressing in practice around them. JT was starting to look a lot bigger in the rear view mirror.
Proof of this:

Former Tech offensive lineman Will Jackson said that in conversations with Lee before his transfer, the two came to the conclusion that Thomas was a better fit for the offense than Lee was.
 

Techster

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That entire post is your opinion and you're are most welcome to it. When you try to pass it off as fact, it's humorous.

I'll give you Vad has very high athletic potential to run our offense. That said, nobody knows his mental potential for grasping the offense or his will/desire to do so. Not having the latter (will/desire), which he readily admits to, was why he never reached his full potential, imo. I believe if he had fully embraced the core concepts of the offense and dedicated himself to them fully, we'd have seen a much better outcome. That's my opinion and I'll state it as such.

It's as much fact/opinion as you saying Vad was responsible for 90% of it.

I'll say this. The coaches are 100% responsible for who plays. That's fact.
 

stylee

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Without veering (pun intended) into too much dead horse territory...

I am trying to keep myself from having outsized expectations about our offense under JT. Even if he's a "better fit" for our offense, there's plenty of reason to believe he will have struggles offensively this year.

75% of quarterbacking goes on between the ears, but differences in arm strength and accuracy still matter. Vad has the ability to make the throw he made against Pitt. He has the ability to make the bomb to Waller he made against UGA. That's an extra element that we probably lose. Now, if JT can develop between the ears, we may be able to improve the passing game with better reads. If he has some moxie, maybe he lets it rip deep more often. But those are unknowns.

Vad also has a more vocal leadership style that a lot of guys respond to. Justin is more laid back. What's the team response to that?


And then there's the possibility of regression - if Vad can become more timid in the run game, so can JT. Let's hope not, but we know it *could* happen.

JT is going to benefit from having a mature, reasonably talented set of WRs, an experienced BB and a talented freshman coming on strong, and a deep AB corps. However, we lose three senior OLs, including Finch, who I think was drastically underrated.

There will be struggles. Some people will call for Byerly (or Griffin or Jordan)
 

dressedcheeseside

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I'm not convinced TB doesn't put up one helluva fight for the starting job. If we're getting back to basics, who runs the O better, JT or TB?
 

stylee

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I haven't seem enough of TB running our base to say. We saw Byerly run the pistol stuff well in the Miami game, but I don't think he's got much film running the 3-0, midline, etc, against real competition.
 

TampaGT

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I'm not convinced TB doesn't put up one helluva fight for the starting job. If we're getting back to basics, who runs the O better, JT or TB?
I would also include MJ in on this fight. With his EE it will give him extra time to learn the O. The players are already working out on their on so he can use this time to get his feet wet.
 

RamblinCharger

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Without veering (pun intended) into too much dead horse territory...

I am trying to keep myself from having outsized expectations about our offense under JT. Even if he's a "better fit" for our offense, there's plenty of reason to believe he will have struggles offensively this year.

75% of quarterbacking goes on between the ears, but differences in arm strength and accuracy still matter. Vad has the ability to make the throw he made against Pitt. He has the ability to make the bomb to Waller he made against UGA. That's an extra element that we probably lose. Now, if JT can develop between the ears, we may be able to improve the passing game with better reads. If he has some moxie, maybe he lets it rip deep more often. But those are unknowns.

Vad also has a more vocal leadership style that a lot of guys respond to. Justin is more laid back. What's the team response to that?


And then there's the possibility of regression - if Vad can become more timid in the run game, so can JT. Let's hope not, but we know it *could* happen.

JT is going to benefit from having a mature, reasonably talented set of WRs, an experienced BB and a talented freshman coming on strong, and a deep AB corps. However, we lose three senior OLs, including Finch, who I think was drastically underrated.

There will be struggles. Some people will call for Byerly (or Griffin or Jordan)

From the film I've seen of Justin in high school (starting for the BEST 6A high school football program in Alabama) he seems to have a really good arm. For some reason people assume since he's small that he can't throw the ball with velocity or for distance, or so it seems. Michael Vick is 6'0 and 200 lbs and has a monster arm. I think his arm will be fine and I think he'll be able to make all the throws, and if he steps up in the pocket and if the line does a little better of a job protecting him we may improve in the passing aspect, especially if we improve running the base offense. One of the most important things justin needs to do IMO is stay calm and don't force throws just because you're excited that a pass play was called. I felt like that happened some last year. If he keeps turnovers down and doesn't try to create too many things, we should be better offensively I think, because running our base spread can't get much worse.
 

takethepoints

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Eggsackley. JT has the arm, no doubt about that. And I think he'll benefit from being better at running the base spread; it isn't for nothing that most of our pass plays are play action. If he can get to where he reads Ds like Reynolds (the Navy QB) does, then life at the flats will be delightful. But that would probably be asking too much. He may need most of the year to get up to speed in game situations.

I hope we don't put too much pressure on him early (except to win, of course).
 

dressedcheeseside

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Eggsackley. JT has the arm, no doubt about that. And I think he'll benefit from being better at running the base spread; it isn't for nothing that most of our pass plays are play action. If he can get to where he reads Ds like Reynolds (the Navy QB) does, then life at the flats will be delightful. But that would probably be asking too much. He may need most of the year to get up to speed in game situations.

I hope we don't put too much pressure on him early (except to win, of course).
He's got 3 games right off the bat to work out the kinks.
 

Techster

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JT is going to benefit from having a mature, reasonably talented set of WRs, an experienced BB and a talented freshman coming on strong, and a deep AB corps. However, we lose three senior OLs, including Finch, who I think was drastically underrated.

That's what worries me a lot. The center is responsible for the line calls and checking the QB, now we replace Finch's experience with Burden's inexperience. Good thing our schedule starts soft so they can adjust.

I think JT can make the down field throws, not to the extent of Vad who could do it effortlessly, but JT will probably need to "muscle up" in order to make those throws. That means he will need to buy time behind the pocket. That awful looking sack against Miami we analyzed to death in another thread is an example of JT needing to set his feet and square his shoulders to make that throw. I think Vad easily makes that throw on the run.
 
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