Wrecking Ball
Ramblin' Wreck
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Not trying to be smarmy with this, but the ignore feature can be your friend, too.
My general point is better articulated in this article: http://gawker.com/on-smarm-1476594977
IMO reason for our troubles!
- Thread starter jayparr
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My general point is better articulated in this article: http://gawker.com/on-smarm-1476594977
Whiskey_Clear
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Being "smarmy" or "snarky" isn't a violation of terms n conditions as I've read them. Neither is sarcasm. Trolling is and my use of ignore was to avoid what I believe to be trolling. Though I'm not naming names or calling that person out as it might just be continuous venting rather than intentional trolling. Either way I've had enough from that source for the moment. Fwiw I've been advised to use ifnore before but have resisted. I usually find value in opinions I disagree with. Finally decided it was time to give it a go. Feel free to do the same. Lots of good features on this site.
JorgeJonas
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I do think it would be an interesting discussion to trace the A-backs who have signed here over the past four years and what happened to them. To the extent we agree that blocking on the perimeter has been an issue - and I think we do - it would certainly be useful to see why we're where we are.
dressedcheeseside
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Here ya go:
Here's a breakdown of offensive skill players that are or "would have/could have" been upperclassmen this season. By upperclassmen, I mean 5th, 4th and 3rd yr players. Many of these guys aren't here anymore or are playing on defense. Very few are still here and playing offense. S*** happens, people leave programs all over the country all the time, not just GT. Sometimes the stars align and the combination of attrition and injury really screw up your depth chart. This is GT skill positions. Also consider the fact that we don't sign 25 plus players every year like the factories and there ya go.
The fate of signed GT football offensive skill players and athletes that are or would have been upperclassmen right now:
quarterbacks..............................runningbacks/athletes......................wide recievers
5th yr players (2011 class)
Vad Lee (transferred)......................Jamaal Golden (defense)....................Cory Dennis (graduated)
.........................................................Demond Smith (defense)....................Jeff Greene (quit/transferred)
.........................................................Broderick Snoddy (playing)
.........................................................Zach Laskey (graduated)
4th yr players (2012 class)
JeT (playing)...................................Marcus Allen (playing)........................Travin Henry (dismissed)
.........................................................Dennis Andrews (dismissed)..............Michael Summers (injured)
.........................................................Anthony Autry (dismissed)
3rd yr players (2013 class)
Ty Griffin (transferred)...................Travis Custis (academic casualty).......Ricky Juene (playing)
.........................................................Donovan Wilson (transferred)............Antonio Messick (playing)
Conclusions:
Out of 17 skill guys who could have been playing this yr if all were redshirted and/or not moved to defense, only 5 remain or are healthy. Out of seven 5th yr guys, only one is still here on offense (and he's coming off a broken leg). Is this a recruiting issue? Is it bad luck? Is it a result of unforeseeable uneven attrition, some years a ton, others not much at all, causing unbalanced classes?
Imagine if some of those transfer guys were still here. Imagine if Jeff Greene was still here or Vad had stayed and moved to wr? Imagine if we still had Laskey? Imagine if Custis would have made grades or if Ty Griffin had stayed and moved to Aback? Imagine if Autry and Andrews hadn't gotten themselves tossed.
BBack has been decimated by injuries since spring with loss of CJ and Quaide (for a big chunk of time.)
Imagine if Golden or Demond were put on O instead of D or for that matter, if one or both of the Austins or Step Durham was an Aback?
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AE 87
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RB's by year
2011: Laskey, Snoddy
2012: Allen, Andrews [Custis]
2013: Custis, Donovan Wilson, (Ty Griffin)
2014: Myles Autrey, CJ Legget, Clinton Lynch, (Qua Searcy), (Matthew Jordan)
2015: Kirvonte Benson (RS), Nathan Cottrell (inj RS), Omahri Jarrett (RS), Lands-Davis (RS), M Marshall, Taquon Marshall, Q Weimerskirch
Okay, so the reason we signed so many RBs this year was because we lost all (3) from 2013 and 1 from 2014. Custis actually took two years of B-Back recruiting as part of our commitment to his family, iiuc.
2011: Laskey, Snoddy
2012: Allen, Andrews [Custis]
2013: Custis, Donovan Wilson, (Ty Griffin)
2014: Myles Autrey, CJ Legget, Clinton Lynch, (Qua Searcy), (Matthew Jordan)
2015: Kirvonte Benson (RS), Nathan Cottrell (inj RS), Omahri Jarrett (RS), Lands-Davis (RS), M Marshall, Taquon Marshall, Q Weimerskirch
Okay, so the reason we signed so many RBs this year was because we lost all (3) from 2013 and 1 from 2014. Custis actually took two years of B-Back recruiting as part of our commitment to his family, iiuc.
dressedcheeseside
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Did Myles Autry actually sign? I thought he never qualified that year.
AE 87
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Yes and Yes, iiuc.
IronJacket7
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Not going to disagree. Inexperience is definitely a factor.
However the OL is our biggest mess currently. And.... That's where we have the most experience.
Whiskey_Clear
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I'm not yet ready to declare what the biggest problem is on O. Several to choose from. But the Oline play is certainly the most surprising / disappointing.
lv20gt
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There is no one reason to explain our problems on offense. There are some things going wrong that we could have foreseen and others that we had no reason to believe would happen.
For the foreseeable ones.
Inexperience at A back and WR means that blocking on the edge and passing game would be iffy. I thought that in regards to A back we'd use a lot in the opening two games, and then tighten up to rotation a lot for ND and slowly open it back up as the year went along. Basically keeping Snoddy on the field most plays and rotating in 2 or maybe 3 others in the early (games 2-5 ish) to help minimize the impact. I, as well as others, thought that the returning experience at OL and QB would be able to help mask those problems early giving new guys time to settle in.
BBack. Skove came in to college following Gerhart, Taylor, and Gaffney; all highly successful big backs at Stanford. Last year their leading back had 600 yards. If he was a guy capable of being a featured back at a P5 school, he wouldn't have been a fullback at Stanford. But he isn't. He's big and strong, but he simply doesn't have much in the way of running back ability. His lack of quickness, speed, vision, and instincts all hinder his ability to put his strength to use, which is part of the reason he's not been the consistent 4 yards that people claimed he would be. Simply put, we have about 22.5% of our plays going to a guy who just isn't good enough. I know people will jump down my throat for that but the truth is some guys just aren't good enough. Stanford has some good coaches. To think that we'd take a guy who they rarely used in the running game, and turn him into an ACC caliber featured back is naive. I know that playing freshmen terrifies Johnson, but right now we're playing a guy who is basically a freshman because he doesn't have any experience either in the system or as a running back.
For the unforeseeable ones.
OL. Yes we lost a great player. No that does not come close to explaining what is going on with this group. No matter how good one guy is, he can't block everybody. Last year the OL was lead by Mason, but last year we didn't have nearly as many guys running free in the backfield and that means the other guys on the line were at least hitting their assignments most of the time, and we've regressed. Why this is happening? I have no idea. It'd be one thing if it was just not getting the drive we got last year behind mason. We aren't just missing his contribution, we're missing a lot of what the rest of the line brought last year. We look like we have 4 new starters on the OL not 1.
QB - Thomas has frankly disappointed. A lot of it isn't his fault but with a year under his belt you expect him to not compound mistakes of others by mistakes of his own. He's good at making reads, but he's inconsistent about setting up the reads. What I mean is he doesn't always attack the defender in the way we need him to. Sometimes it has allowed the defender to come of him and still make an attempt at the pitch man. Thomas has also forced the issue. I think most of this is in response to issues elsewhere, and if we fix those Thomas won't be a problem. But right now he looks very much like Lee in 2013. And as we saw from Lee in 2012, and at JMU this year if you caught their game against SMU, Lee also was very talented, and capable of having this offense, and others, clicking when things were going well around him. All the talent in the world though wouldn't have helped him in 2013.
If we're looking for a fix, there isn't much you can do about QB or AB/WR. There's no reason to believe the former won't fall into piece if the rest are fix, and the latter is simply a problem that you can only deal with by time. BBack is probably the most tangible treatment, read not necessarily a solution. Simply put, play Marshall, or Allen because while I don't think he's the solution he at least deserves a shot which he really hasn't gotten. Yes, he has work to do. Yes he's inexperienced. But at least he's an actual running back, and let him work through the issues while getting experience. Not just riding the pine. It may not fix it this year, but we are already dealing with inexperience at the position this year, and skov's advantage of strength isn't translating into production. At the vary least this helps go towards correcting this issue for next year.
OL. Well. In that area I'm lost. I'm halfway thinking it's mostly mental and that if we can just come out strong against UNC we might be able to ride the momentum to better OL play. But that's purely conjecture.
For the foreseeable ones.
Inexperience at A back and WR means that blocking on the edge and passing game would be iffy. I thought that in regards to A back we'd use a lot in the opening two games, and then tighten up to rotation a lot for ND and slowly open it back up as the year went along. Basically keeping Snoddy on the field most plays and rotating in 2 or maybe 3 others in the early (games 2-5 ish) to help minimize the impact. I, as well as others, thought that the returning experience at OL and QB would be able to help mask those problems early giving new guys time to settle in.
BBack. Skove came in to college following Gerhart, Taylor, and Gaffney; all highly successful big backs at Stanford. Last year their leading back had 600 yards. If he was a guy capable of being a featured back at a P5 school, he wouldn't have been a fullback at Stanford. But he isn't. He's big and strong, but he simply doesn't have much in the way of running back ability. His lack of quickness, speed, vision, and instincts all hinder his ability to put his strength to use, which is part of the reason he's not been the consistent 4 yards that people claimed he would be. Simply put, we have about 22.5% of our plays going to a guy who just isn't good enough. I know people will jump down my throat for that but the truth is some guys just aren't good enough. Stanford has some good coaches. To think that we'd take a guy who they rarely used in the running game, and turn him into an ACC caliber featured back is naive. I know that playing freshmen terrifies Johnson, but right now we're playing a guy who is basically a freshman because he doesn't have any experience either in the system or as a running back.
For the unforeseeable ones.
OL. Yes we lost a great player. No that does not come close to explaining what is going on with this group. No matter how good one guy is, he can't block everybody. Last year the OL was lead by Mason, but last year we didn't have nearly as many guys running free in the backfield and that means the other guys on the line were at least hitting their assignments most of the time, and we've regressed. Why this is happening? I have no idea. It'd be one thing if it was just not getting the drive we got last year behind mason. We aren't just missing his contribution, we're missing a lot of what the rest of the line brought last year. We look like we have 4 new starters on the OL not 1.
QB - Thomas has frankly disappointed. A lot of it isn't his fault but with a year under his belt you expect him to not compound mistakes of others by mistakes of his own. He's good at making reads, but he's inconsistent about setting up the reads. What I mean is he doesn't always attack the defender in the way we need him to. Sometimes it has allowed the defender to come of him and still make an attempt at the pitch man. Thomas has also forced the issue. I think most of this is in response to issues elsewhere, and if we fix those Thomas won't be a problem. But right now he looks very much like Lee in 2013. And as we saw from Lee in 2012, and at JMU this year if you caught their game against SMU, Lee also was very talented, and capable of having this offense, and others, clicking when things were going well around him. All the talent in the world though wouldn't have helped him in 2013.
If we're looking for a fix, there isn't much you can do about QB or AB/WR. There's no reason to believe the former won't fall into piece if the rest are fix, and the latter is simply a problem that you can only deal with by time. BBack is probably the most tangible treatment, read not necessarily a solution. Simply put, play Marshall, or Allen because while I don't think he's the solution he at least deserves a shot which he really hasn't gotten. Yes, he has work to do. Yes he's inexperienced. But at least he's an actual running back, and let him work through the issues while getting experience. Not just riding the pine. It may not fix it this year, but we are already dealing with inexperience at the position this year, and skov's advantage of strength isn't translating into production. At the vary least this helps go towards correcting this issue for next year.
OL. Well. In that area I'm lost. I'm halfway thinking it's mostly mental and that if we can just come out strong against UNC we might be able to ride the momentum to better OL play. But that's purely conjecture.
GT Chillin' It
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I also feel like we were spoiled last year with all of 2010 class still being in place. You had Days, Bostic, Hill, Zenon, and Perkins. That many backs in one class may have hurt the numbers in 2011 and 2012 but I wouldn't have traded any of those guys.
I'm looking at your list and the losses have certainly hurt, but just imagine how good we can be in a year or two once the guys from 2014 and 2015 get some experience. I'm excited.
orange14
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I think Skov is serviceable, not a game breaker, but not hopeless either. We do need a hammer. Unfortunately that hammer could not get 1 yard to save the game for us Saturday. But I agree he probably should not be our feature B Back. I think he will probably get better as the season goes on - and Marshall will replace him at some point. He was signed as kind of an insurance policy anyway.
4NatlChmps
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How do you ignore? Need that move in a serious way.
dressedcheeseside
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I think part of JeT's problem is he doesn't trust his supporting cast. Last year, he was confident that if he put it in the belly of the Bback, he'd get 3+ a pop every time. He knew if there was the tiniest crease, the Bback would find it. He knew the OL would either open a crease or push the DL back.
If the play went wide, he knew exactly where each and every Aback would be w/o looking. He knew they'd catch it and make the most yards that were there to be made. He knew the edge was being set and corners and safeties were going down like dominos. But most of all, he knew we'd be at a man advantage at the point of attack.
He knew he had two wr's who knew where to go and would win the one on ones. He knew if he had to scramble, a wr had his back.
I don't think he's feelin' that right now and it's causing him to try to do too much himself. Even when he does the right thing, break downs elsewhere are blowing up plays.
It all starts with the OL settling down and recommitting to the offense and their specific role on each and every play. Do that, and we can move forward. Don't and...............
If the play went wide, he knew exactly where each and every Aback would be w/o looking. He knew they'd catch it and make the most yards that were there to be made. He knew the edge was being set and corners and safeties were going down like dominos. But most of all, he knew we'd be at a man advantage at the point of attack.
He knew he had two wr's who knew where to go and would win the one on ones. He knew if he had to scramble, a wr had his back.
I don't think he's feelin' that right now and it's causing him to try to do too much himself. Even when he does the right thing, break downs elsewhere are blowing up plays.
It all starts with the OL settling down and recommitting to the offense and their specific role on each and every play. Do that, and we can move forward. Don't and...............
Whiskey_Clear
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Lol....click on profile then select ignore from the pop up box
I'm not missing my troll at all
Whiskey_Clear
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This wall of text is simply to high to scale in one try. I'd suggest making a post for each issue / position but that's just me. I will only touch on a couple of points.
Snoddy...I believe you are suggesting he should have played the majority of reps vs Duke. I believe he nearly did. Far more than in prior years with our standard rotations anyway. He also got a little dinged up apparently.
Skov...you seem a bit rash and hasty giving up on him. I for one have seen improvement in his vision and cutting from ND to Duke games. He's only been in the system since this fall! And he averaged more yards per rush vs Duke than Marshsll managed. Not a dig on Marshsll as I think he could be a special player. He's young and new to the system also though. Skov needs to improve and has already IMO. Better interior blocking will be just as much an elixir for him as our other guys.
lv20gt
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My post was mostly about the issues we could (not) have seen. As far as snoddy, that's just what I thought they would do. I haven't payed attention enough to who is playing at aback to know if he's played more often than previous top a backs. I do know that he hasn't gotten significantly more carries, but that doesn't mean he wasn't on the field.
Same with Skov. Those were my thoughts coming in with a bit of analysis of what has happened to show that those problems are a reality. Also, Skov is a senior. There isn't time for him to learn on the job. If we have to play a bback that needs time and experience to adjust to the role and get to the level we need, it makes no sense for it to be the senior who won't be here next year. At the very least, playing Marshall, or Allen, will help us in future seasons. I see no advantages to playing Skov because the primary advantage he had was strength, but that hasn't translated to production up the middle.
IronJacket7
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This is the focal point imo.
IronJacket7
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For guys/gals who think its the 2013 recruiting class or lack of experience...
I totally agree that the above two are factors. However, I don't feel these are the biggest factors. Its always a mixture of things.
In my humble opinion I believe the OL clean-up is priority 1.
CPJ in UNC press conference:
"Inexcusable stuff from guys that have played"
I totally agree that the above two are factors. However, I don't feel these are the biggest factors. Its always a mixture of things.
In my humble opinion I believe the OL clean-up is priority 1.
CPJ in UNC press conference:
"Inexcusable stuff from guys that have played"