I guess it's easier to convert to "option" than to convert to "modern"

[scrappy_95]

It is easier, that's why the triple was actually so perfect for our school , it gave us an advantage with weaker athletes

It also gave us an advantage the first few years as schools didn't have as much to prepare for it.

The issue was that as schools played us more they knew how to prepare for it

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Can we PLEASE FINALLY kill this now that CPJ is gone. This is probably the biggest false argument that I kept hearing repeated year after year. I have to admit that I believed this also until I actually looked at the data and this could be the furthest from the truth. CPJ best offensive year came in year number 7. That means every team in the ACC had seen this offense at-least once before, every team in our division had seen it 6 times, Clemson had seen it 6 times, and UGA had seen it 6 times. There was plenty of film and different ways many people had tried to defend it. Yet, year 7 was his best year.

Please look at the stats below: In year 9 was his 5th best offense efficiency at 2.14 plays per point. As a matter of fact, his worse offensive year came in year 3 at 2.79. Even his 3 wins season in 2015, he put up 29.2 points per game with an efficiency of 2.27 plays per point. I think if the league would have caught up with him, it would have been around season 4, 5, or 6. As much as I loved T. Marshal (recruited as a Aback), he was probably CPJ's worse trigger man. I think that explains the last two year, not the offense. I think with T. Oliver running his offense, you would have seen a major jump in the offense efficiency and point this year.

I am all for blaming CPJ for his defensive issue, but saying that the rest of the league had caught up with him offensively is just false.

Year ,Points per game ,# plays per point ,Wins, QB
2018, 29.3, 2.32, 7, Marshall
2017, 28.1, 2.53, 5, Marshall
2016, 28.2, 2.14, 9, Thomas
2015, 29.2, 2.27, 3, Thomas
2014, 37.9, 1.75, 11, Thomas
2013, 35.7, 2.06, 7, Lee
2012, 33.4, 2.17, 7, Washington
2011, 34.3, 2.02, 8, Washington
2010, 26, 2.79, 6, Nesbitt
2009, 33.8, 2.07, 10, Nesbitt
2008, 24.4, 2.59, 9, Nesbitt

 

[Boaty1]

We may be watching the worst season in the history of our program a year after going to a bowl game. You are stunned no one saw that coming?

Most definitely. Unfortunately I think some let there fandom blind them to the realities of our program under Johnson. Virtually every preseason publication forecasted the debacle that was about to take place. We were all about Johnson and his scheme during his tenure. Remove that and we were truly awful. Hopefully we never find ourself in this position from a talent perspective again.

 

[scrappy_95]

Most definitely. Unfortunately I think some let there fandom blind them to the realities of our program under Johnson. Virtually every preseason publication forecasted the debacle that was about to take place. We were all about Johnson and his scheme during his tenure. Remove that and we were truly awful. Hopefully we never find ourself in this position from a talent perspective again.

Aren't we all about CGC and his scheme now. Isn't every program all about their coach and their scheme. That like saying Alabama is all about Saban and his scheme and if you take that away then they are awful. This is 100% true. Isn't that what Alabama was before he got there...awful... will most likely be after he leaves.

Your point is what?

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

Can we PLEASE FINALLY kill this now that CPJ is gone. This is probably the biggest false argument that I kept hearing repeated year after year. I have to admit that I believed this also until I actually looked at the data and this could be the furthest from the truth. CPJ best offensive year came in year number 7. That means every team in the ACC had seen this offense at-least once before, every team in our division had seen it 6 times, Clemson had seen it 6 times, and UGA had seen it 6 times. There was plenty of film and different ways many people had tried to defend it. Yet, year 7 was his best year.

Please look at the stats below: In year 9 was his 5th best offense efficiency at 2.14 plays per point. As a matter of fact, his worse offensive year came in year 3 at 2.79. Even his 3 wins season in 2015, he put up 29.2 points per game with an efficiency of 2.27 plays per point. I think if the league would have caught up with him, it would have been around season 4, 5, or 6. As much as I loved T. Marshal (recruited as a Aback), he was probably CPJ's worse trigger man. I think that explains the last two year, not the offense. I think with T. Oliver running his offense, you would have seen a major jump in the offense efficiency and point this year.

I am all for blaming CPJ for his defensive issue, but saying that the rest of the league had caught up with him offensively is just false.

Year ,Points per game ,# plays per point ,Wins, QB
2018, 29.3, 2.32, 7, Marshall
2017, 28.1, 2.53, 5, Marshall
2016, 28.2, 2.14, 9, Thomas
2015, 29.2, 2.27, 3, Thomas
2014, 37.9, 1.75, 11, Thomas
2013, 35.7, 2.06, 7, Lee
2012, 33.4, 2.17, 7, Washington
2011, 34.3, 2.02, 8, Washington
2010, 26, 2.79, 6, Nesbitt
2009, 33.8, 2.07, 10, Nesbitt
2008, 24.4, 2.59, 9, Nesbitt

The league is so bad this year, another offseason with Oliver under the system, a second year in Woody’s system for the defense....*sigh*

 

[iceeater1969]

Your statement is completely accurate. The transition was obviously easier under Johnson. I see no argument for the contrary.

Transition to TO
After year one , 6 or 7 guys left gt early to go to nfl.
In last few years we have very few nfl.
We have had a l ki t of players leave early in few years.

Talent == loaded at start and not so much at end.

 

[scrappy_95]

Just think of 3 years of Oliver under center with all these frosh and Soph on the squad. CPJ defensive recruiting had picked up. We win 7-8 this year in a weak ACC. Then 9-10 the next season. Then a possible better run than 2014 in year 3.

Saying that...I like CGC...I will be patience while he builds his team. I think he will do a good job. I just don't want us to pat him on the back in 5-6 years because he produced a 8-9 win team. We already had that. We brought him in to compete for the Natty. That is what I was led to believe.

 

[TheTechGuy]

You keep repeating this as if it’s apples to apples.

Give the OC 2 All-Conference OLineman like Center and a starting NFL RB and see how much easier the transition would be

Lol Brieda was in his first year, Fritz developed him after Southern lost McKinnon the year before. How about Griffin? Can P'nut do nothing with a 4-star RB?

How about the rest of the roster full of literal FCS players? Not players that fans like to degrade by calling FCS players, but actual FCS players.

Fact is that Fritz was able to transition the team, win games, and players won awards due to the success. P'nut and CGC followed that up by losing to an FCS team that is currently 1-3 with FBS players.

Lay it out for us; how many amazing players does P'nut need to operate an offense that could score a point on Temple? How many to beat Citadel?

 

[iceeater1969]

Can we PLEASE FINALLY kill this now that CPJ is gone. This is probably the biggest false argument that I kept hearing repeated year after year. I have to admit that I believed this also until I actually looked at the data and this could be the furthest from the truth. CPJ best offensive year came in year number 7. That means every team in the ACC had seen this offense at-least once before, every team in our division had seen it 6 times, Clemson had seen it 6 times, and UGA had seen it 6 times. There was plenty of film and different ways many people had tried to defend it. Yet, year 7 was his best year.

Please look at the stats below: In year 9 was his 5th best offense efficiency at 2.14 plays per point. As a matter of fact, his worse offensive year came in year 3 at 2.79. Even his 3 wins season in 2015, he put up 29.2 points per game with an efficiency of 2.27 plays per point. I think if the league would have caught up with him, it would have been around season 4, 5, or 6. As much as I loved T. Marshal (recruited as a Aback), he was probably CPJ's worse trigger man. I think that explains the last two year, not the offense. I think with T. Oliver running his offense, you would have seen a major jump in the offense efficiency and point this year.

I am all for blaming CPJ for his defensive issue, but saying that the rest of the league had caught up with him offensively is just false.

Year ,Points per game ,# plays per point ,Wins, QB
2018, 29.3, 2.32, 7, Marshall
2017, 28.1, 2.53, 5, Marshall
2016, 28.2, 2.14, 9, Thomas
2015, 29.2, 2.27, 3, Thomas
2014, 37.9, 1.75, 11, Thomas
2013, 35.7, 2.06, 7, Lee
2012, 33.4, 2.17, 7, Washington
2011, 34.3, 2.02, 8, Washington
2010, 26, 2.79, 6, Nesbitt
2009, 33.8, 2.07, 10, Nesbitt
2008, 24.4, 2.59, 9, Nesbitt

Year 7 at mid year we went with a giant ol. No one had seen it before.
"Chamberlin, Braun/ Shamire, Burton, Shaq, Erin Joe-- averaged 330" !
Then we went lean ol about half way thru 2015 and coach said -- maybe they weren't as good as folks thought. In came guys like Klock and Bryan who were more mobil. We changed again in 17.
With each change sr linemen left early.
In 18 we had almost zero experience at Tackle -


SCRAPPY IS RIGHT- Coach would change, they would adjust, coach would change. During each time they would look better and then we would change and we would look better. With full support and more money - we could still be doing the same thing.

What never changed
1.- we slaughtered teams that were way lower in talent (2015 - approx 120 points in games 1/2)
2. WE NEVER LOST One of the rotating CROSS CONFERENCE (atlantic) GAMES.
3. Lots of fun times.

 

[iceeater1969]

Can we PLEASE FINALLY kill this now that CPJ is gone. This is probably the biggest false argument that I kept hearing repeated year after year. I have to admit that I believed this also until I actually looked at the data and this could be the furthest from the truth. CPJ best offensive year came in year number 7. That means every team in the ACC had seen this offense at-least once before, every team in our division had seen it 6 times, Clemson had seen it 6 times, and UGA had seen it 6 times. There was plenty of film and different ways many people had tried to defend it. Yet, year 7 was his best year.

Please look at the stats below: In year 9 was his 5th best offense efficiency at 2.14 plays per point. As a matter of fact, his worse offensive year came in year 3 at 2.79. Even his 3 wins season in 2015, he put up 29.2 points per game with an efficiency of 2.27 plays per point. I think if the league would have caught up with him, it would have been around season 4, 5, or 6. As much as I loved T. Marshal (recruited as a Aback), he was probably CPJ's worse trigger man. I think that explains the last two year, not the offense. I think with T. Oliver running his offense, you would have seen a major jump in the offense efficiency and point this year.

I am all for blaming CPJ for his defensive issue, but saying that the rest of the league had caught up with him offensively is just false.

Year ,Points per game ,# plays per point ,Wins, QB
2018, 29.3, 2.32, 7, Marshall
2017, 28.1, 2.53, 5, Marshall
2016, 28.2, 2.14, 9, Thomas
2015, 29.2, 2.27, 3, Thomas
2014, 37.9, 1.75, 11, Thomas
2013, 35.7, 2.06, 7, Lee
2012, 33.4, 2.17, 7, Washington
2011, 34.3, 2.02, 8, Washington
2010, 26, 2.79, 6, Nesbitt
2009, 33.8, 2.07, 10, Nesbitt
2008, 24.4, 2.59, 9, Nesbitt

Year 7 at mid year we went with a giant ol. No one had seen it before.
"Chamberlin, Braun/ Shamire, Burton, Shaq, Erin Joe-- averaged 330" !
Then we went lean ol about half way thru 2015 and coach said -- maybe they weren't as good as folks thought. In came guys like Klock and Bryan who were more mobil. We changed again in 17.
With each change sr linemen left early.

But Coach would change, they would adjust, coach would change. During each time they would look better and then we would change and we would look better.
What never changed
1.- we slaughtered teams that were way lower in talent (2015 - approx 120 points in games 1/2)
2. WE NEVER LOST One of the rotating CROSS CONFERENCE (atlantic) GAMES.
3. Lots of fun times.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Lol Brieda was in his first year, Fritz developed him after Southern lost McKinnon the year before. How about Griffin? Can P'nut do nothing with a 4-star RB?

How about the rest of the roster full of literal FCS players? Not players that fans like to degrade by calling FCS players, but actual FCS players.

Fact is that Fritz was able to transition the team, win games, and players won awards due to the success. P'nut and CGC followed that up by losing to an FCS team that is currently 1-3 with FBS players.

Lay it out for us; how many amazing players does P'nut need to operate an offense that could score a point on Temple? How many to beat Citadel?

1608....or thereabouts

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Year 7 at mid year we went with a giant ol. No one had seen it before.
"Chamberlin, Braun/ Shamire, Burton, Shaq, Erin Joe-- averaged 330" !
Then we went lean ol about half way thru 2015 and coach said -- maybe they weren't as good as folks thought. In came guys like Klock and Bryan who were more mobil. We changed again in 17.
With each change sr linemen left early.
In 18 we had almost zero experience at Tackle -


SCRAPPY IS RIGHT- Coach would change, they would adjust, coach would change. During each time they would look better and then we would change and we would look better. With full support and more money - we could still be doing the same thing.

What never changed
1.- we slaughtered teams that were way lower in talent (2015 - approx 120 points in games 1/2)
2. WE NEVER LOST One of the rotating CROSS CONFERENCE (atlantic) GAMES.
3. Lots of fun times.

4. Abysmal resources provided by the institute for the staff.

And if #4 doesn’t change CGC will fail to improve recruiting appreciably and we will be looking for another coach in 3-4 years.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Here's the difference:

CPJ had a 4 star top 10 dual threat QB that was perfect for his offense. Where's CGC's 4 star top 10 dual or drop back passer?

CPJ had a 4 star RB that he himself described as the perfect BB for his offense. Where's CGC's 4 star RB that's perfect for his spread offense?

CPJ had 2 future NFL OLs (Andrew Gardner, Cord Howard) and a 4 star OL recruit (Nick Claytor). Which two OLs on our current line do you think is going to the NFL, and where's the third OL that's a 4 star recruit.

CPJ had a future first round NFL pick at WR with Demaryius Thomas Which one of our WRs is a future first round pick?

That's a pretty dang loaded offense.

Oh, and by the way, the defensive side was LOADED with future NFL talent. That 2008 DL was one of the most talented DLs in the country with 4 future NFL draft picks included a 1st and 2nd rounder. Suffice it to say, we would be hard pressed to find an NFL DL leftover from last year's team.

CPJ is the first person that will tell you physical talent trumps coaching schemes.

This is not a dig at CPJ, it's just pointing out you're not using an apple to apples comparison.

and this is all correct and factual. I met CPJ in May of 2008 and we spoke about this briefly along with a lot of other things.....But also remember Chan Gailey had this same talent and won 7 games with it. Cpj won 9 and then 11 even after losing 3 of those D-lineman

 

[buzzed]

From an actual coach and not is bickering fans, it former players who have never coached football:

In the ideal world, Kelly, seemingly without a hint of irony, said he’d love to run the wishbone offense because “then you don’t even have to put in a pass offense if you’re really good at that.”

“I would love to run the wishbone,” Kelly said. “I would love to run the ball every play for the entire game and never have to throw the football. But that’s not going to happen.”

- Chip Kelly

One of the best offensive coaches in both college and NFL prefers our old offense. Looks like it's fans and our boosters are getting in the way of what could have been something special.

I think most football coaches understand how great CPJ’s system is when you’re able to recruit to it well. The problem is all of the negative recruiting that goes on at the P5 level where you need at least some NFL talent to win. It’s understandable that a lot of the most talented players don’t want to jeopardize their shot at the NFL by being perceived as a “system” player, or having their knees taken out in practice by one of those career-ending cut blocks, which I don’t recall ever happening in 11 years. With a better defense in 2014, CPJ might have pulled off the “impossible” at the P5 level.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

I think most football coaches understand how great CPJ’s system is when you’re able to recruit to it well. The problem is all of the negative recruiting that goes on at the P5 level where you need at least some NFL talent to win. It’s understandable that a lot of the most talented players don’t want to jeopardize their shot at the NFL by being perceived as a “system” player, or having their knees taken out in practice by one of those career-ending cut blocks, which I don’t recall ever happening in 11 years. With a better defense in 2014, CPJ might have pulled off the “impossible” at the P5 level.

Yeah, the system could be nearly unstoppable with just a few elite players as we saw in ‘09 and ‘14. Unfortunately, the perception of the system makes it almost impossible to consistently recruit elite athletes to the system. I don’t know CPJ’s excuse for his lack of ability to recruit on the other side of the ball, though. We could have averaged 10 wins a season with the average CPJ offense if the defense wasn’t completely inept.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Yeah, the system could be nearly unstoppable with just a few elite players as we saw in ‘09 and ‘14. Unfortunately, the perception of the system makes it almost impossible to consistently recruit elite athletes to the system. I don’t know CPJ’s excuse for his lack of ability to recruit on the other side of the ball, though. We could have averaged 10 wins a season with the average CPJ offense if the defense wasn’t completely inept.

Isn't it somewhat Ironic. In 2014 and 1999 we had probably one of the best offenses in the Nation. But the defense was the issue.....and what did both those teams have in common......Ted Roof was the DC......

 

[iceeater1969]

4. Abysmal resources provided by the institute for the staff.

And if #4 doesn’t change CGC will fail to improve recruiting appreciably and we will be looking for another coach in 3-4 years.

When i was helping ol co coach recruiting coordinator -todd spencer in 09 - he literally had zero staff supoort.

 

[buzzed]

Yeah, the system could be nearly unstoppable with just a few elite players as we saw in ‘09 and ‘14. Unfortunately, the perception of the system makes it almost impossible to consistently recruit elite athletes to the system. I don’t know CPJ’s excuse for his lack of ability to recruit on the other side of the ball, though. We could have averaged 10 wins a season with the average CPJ offense if the defense wasn’t completely inept.

I think he recruited as well or better on that side of the ball, but without the advantage of his system. I would guess negative recruiting on the DL along with the standard recruiting to GT that has been an issue for decades. I’m a huge CPJ fan, but we obviously weren’t recruiting or weren’t developing quite as much NFL talent as other coaches have at GT. But we’ve never been able to win by simply out-recruiting the competition. O’Leary recruited well but wouldn’t have accomplished what he did without Ralph Friegen and a down uga. I don’t think we’ll be seeing a down uga anytime soon, and I’m pretty sure we don’t have Friegen or CPJ on the sidelines. I see no reason to believe that this staff won’t peak with a Gailey type season where we’re pretty good on defense but can’t do a damn thing consistently on offense.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Before the season you voted we would win eight games this season. We’ll now be lucky to win two games and you seem perfectly fine with that. What’s changed? Not calling you out, genuinely curious.

I don’t think any of us are saying that we should be 9-3, but the offense is absolutely terrible. There have been zero bright spots. There have been zero signs we have any idea on how to move the ball. We lost two straight games against The Citadel and Temple. What’s worse? We never were ahead a single second in both of those games. That’s not simply a talented issue.

What has changed is i thought we would be above average run blockers. I believed we had the athletic body’s and nasty mentality to move people. I thought we run enough to effectively until our pass pro gel. That has not been the case. At times, i feel we worse run blockers than pass blockers.


We are very talented imo, but i underestimated transition for those guys on the OL

Also, not being settled on a QB troubled me. I’ve also said the UNC gm is where we settle on starter from henceforth, so we will see if that is true.

Leaving points on the field by not having a reliable kicker.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

What has changed is i thought we would be above average run blockers. I believed we had the athletic body’s and nasty mentality to move people. I thought we run enough to effectively until our pass pro gel. That has not been the case. At times, i feel we worse run blockers than pass blockers.


We are very talented imo, but i underestimated transition for those guys on the OL

Also, not being settled on a QB troubled me. I’ve also said the UNC gm is where we settle on starter from henceforth, so we will see if that is true.

Leaving points on the field by not having a reliable kicker.

I appreciate the response. The QB thing baffles me and I agree with you that the OL lack of ability to run block has been really unexpected.

 

[LibertyTurns]

What has changed is i thought we would be above average run blockers. I believed we had the athletic body’s and nasty mentality to move people. I thought we run enough to effectively until our pass pro gel. That has not been the case. At times, i feel we worse run blockers than pass blockers.


We are very talented imo, but i underestimated transition for those guys on the OL

Also, not being settled on a QB troubled me. I’ve also said the UNC gm is where we settle on starter from henceforth, so we will see if that is true.

Leaving points on the field by not having a reliable kicker.

If the problem is we intend to rely on talent instead of coaching, we’re in for a hard ride. P’nut’s probably a gap filler and he’ll be replaced at season’s end, but our OL Coach is not. He’s accustomed to having a bench full of 4* and 5*’s. It’s not hard to win 10-11 games per year when you’re overloaded with talent have massive staff resources, etc.

Well if he can recruit that at GT, his coaching ability will not be an issue as the talent will overcome any of his shortcomings. There are 65 Power 5 football teams so a top 30 recruiting class at GT puts you right about average. If you are not a superior coach or have a superior scheme, well you’ll produce about average which will get us 5 wins out of 10 games plus beat 2 cupcakes for a whopping 7-5 annual expected record. Split your generic bowl game (win 50%) & you nail the GT recent historic mean of 7.5 wins per year.

Coach Key better start raking them in because what he has by some accounts on this board is complete crap to work with, we’re not exactly breaking recruiting records by him pulling some of his recruiting targets over to GT which would be evidence of the amount of respect recruits have for his coaching ability. Show me the money!