How much are we to blame?

[GT_05]

There are many things that Clemson does (for example) that we'll never be able to match or do. But one thing we can control is our fandom. "Whether rain, sleet, or snow, Clemson fans show." I was at both the 2015 and 2017 games in Clemson where the weather was terrible. Especially last year it was an absolute downpour. THE STADIUM WAS PACKED. The stadium was packed several years ago before Clemson was winning 10 games. One thing we have total control over is the money we give and the games we go to. No academic restrictions or restrictions from the Hill or Board of Regents can stop that. We each have to decide if and how we're going to be fans.

Yes! Everybody has different ideas of how to support the team because everybody has different challenges. If you care about the team, do whatever you can to show your support. My goal for the last three seasons was to go to the home games and at least one away game. In 2016, I went to Dublin and Blacksburg. Last year, I went to Clemson and stood in the pouring rain with a migraine. This year, I’m going to Louisville.


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[northgajacket]

Yeah they didn't show during the Tommy West-Tommy Bowden years

Exactly just look at the 1998 Tech- Clemson game. There were gaps throughout the stadium.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

In 2007 the year before Tommy Bowden got fired (I just picked one year), average attendance was over 80,000 - sellouts. Now did people show up? I won't go back and look at video, but I'll just take your word for it. At least the team got all the money from sellouts.

 

[northgajacket]

In 2007 the year before Tommy Bowden got fired (I just picked one year), average attendance was over 80,000 - sellouts. Now did people show up? I won't go back and look at video, but I'll just take your word for it. At least the team got all the money from sellouts.

They were 9-4 in 2007. They weren’t exactly floundering that year. Look at the 1998 attendance numbers when their team was in the ACC basement.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

They were 9-4 in 2007. They weren’t exactly floundering that year. Look at the 1998 attendance numbers when their team was in the ACC basement.

Oh good god so that's where we're going? The coach got fired because he was only winning 7-9 games every year for several years. But the fans were buying tickets. How many qualifiers are we going to put on this? Maybe we should go back to 1927 and look at stadium pictures?

 

[northgajacket]

Oh good god so that's where we're going? The coach got fired because he was only winning 7-9 games every year for several years. But the fans were buying tickets. How many qualifiers are we going to put on this? Maybe we should go back to 1927 and look at stadium pictures?

I point out 1998 bc that was an abysmal season for them. The coach got fired because he was not able to turn that corner.

I am sorry the facts I presented caused you to have a hissy fit. I was just pointing out that losing football leads to decline in attendance no matter the program.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I point out 1998 bc that was an abysmal season for them. The coach got fired because he was not able to turn that corner.

I am sorry the facts I presented caused you to have a hissy fit. I was just pointing out that losing football leads to decline in attendance no matter the program.

I don't doubt there were times Clemson had terrible attendance. I am happy to say you are correct in 1998, or 1927 or 1943 or whatever.

My point was that before Clemson started winning 10+ games in the last 5 years that Clemson fans supported the team. I picked a year at random when their coach got fired and all their games were sellouts. So my point still stands - the fans didn't wait for the team to win 10+ games a year before they showed up. Now if you want to go back decades further, that's all fine and good. But that's not the illustration I was giving. So, okay.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I point out 1998 bc that was an abysmal season for them. The coach got fired because he was not able to turn that corner.

I am sorry the facts I presented caused you to have a hissy fit. I was just pointing out that losing football leads to decline in attendance no matter the program.

Here is the attendance for the 1998 seasons. 15-18,000 empty seats at most of their games. That's still 62-65,000+ fans at their games. I'm not sure I'd call that abysmal. But okay.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Clemson_Tigers_football_team

 

[Vespidae]

I like the idea of paying the coach a percentage of the gate. For example, other than STH, you could incent the coach $10 a head ... so if he plays a good brand of football and gets fans into the seats, at an attendance of 40,000, he'd make 1MM. If 45,000 ... 1.4MM. If 50,000 ... $1.7MM.

The coach has to take responsibility for why fans are coming. And the best way to take responsibility ... is in the pocketbook.

 

[northgajacket]

I don't doubt there were times Clemson had terrible attendance. I am happy to say you are correct in 1998, or 1927 or 1943 or whatever.

My point was that before Clemson started winning 10+ games in the last 5 years that Clemson fans supported the team. I picked a year at random when their coach got fired and all their games were sellouts. So my point still stands - the fans didn't wait for the team to win 10+ games a year before they showed up. Now if you want to go back decades further, that's all fine and good. But that's not the illustration I was giving. So, okay.

Yes but Clemson hasn’t had a losing season in 20 years. They saw a program that was trending upward. Right now this program seems to falling faster than Enron stock in 2001. Yet again I’m sorry you don’t like facts.

 

[northgajacket]

Here is the attendance for the 1998 seasons. 15-18,000 empty seats at most of their games. That's still 62-65,000+ fans at their games. I'm not sure I'd call that abysmal. But okay.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Clemson_Tigers_football_team

They had an 81000 seat stadium.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Yes but Clemson hasn’t had a losing season in 20 years. They saw a program that was trending upward. Right now this program seems to falling faster than Enron stock in 2001. Yet again I’m sorry you don’t like facts.

False. They saw a program that was trending upwards, so they fired their coach? LOL.

Tommy West in 5 years of coaching had a high water mark of 9 wins and a couple seasons of 7 wins. Tommy Bowden in 9 years of coaching also had a high water mark of 9 wins and a bunch of 7 win seasons and a few 6 win seasons. Look up their seasons, they are barely any different, which is why Tommy Bowden also got fired.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

They had an 81000 seat stadium.

That's what I just literally typed.

 

[Vespidae]

Here is the attendance for the 1998 seasons. 15-18,000 empty seats at most of their games. That's still 62-65,000+ fans at their games. I'm not sure I'd call that abysmal. But okay.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Clemson_Tigers_football_team

You can't really compare Clemson to Tech. The two biggest drivers of attendance are a) rural vs. urban campus and b) density of alumni within 5 miles. Clemson wins hands down.

While at the Ole Miss game a few weeks ago, the stadium was packed. Why? Because there is nothing else to do BUT go to the games. And guess what, one-quarter of the stadium was Crimson. It isn't just Tech.

I did an analysis on attendance going back to 1990 a few years ago. As I recall, Tech's attendance is actually pretty good compared to key drivers and peer groups. Can it be better? Yes. My concern is that BDS is a great place to watch a game ... but compared to the modern fan experience? Not even in the same league.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

You can't really compare Clemson to Tech. The two biggest drivers of attendance are a) rural vs. urban campus and b) density of alumni within 5 miles. Clemson wins hands down.

While at the Ole Miss game a few weeks ago, the stadium was packed. Why? Because there is nothing else to do BUT go to the games. And guess what, one-quarter of the stadium was Crimson. It isn't just Tech.

I did an analysis on attendance going back to 1990 a few years ago. As I recall, Tech's attendance is actually pretty good compared to key drivers and peer groups. Can it be better? Yes. My concern is that BDS is a great place to watch a game ... but compared to the modern fan experience? Not even in the same league.

I know its not fair to completely compare Clemson to Tech. They don't have anything to do, a larger fan base, more alumni etc etc etc etc etc. But my point is that it is one thing WE HAVE UNDER OUR CONTROL. There is nothing stopping more of us from giving money and going to games. There are no academic restrictions on that and so on and so forth.

 

[northgajacket]

False. They saw a program that was trending upwards, so they fired their coach? LOL.

Tommy West in 5 years of coaching had a high water mark of 9 wins and a couple seasons of 7 wins. Tommy Bowden in 9 years of coaching also had a high water mark of 9 wins and a bunch of 7 win seasons and a few 6 win seasons. Look up their seasons, they are barely any different, which is why Tommy Bowden also got fired.

Yes but they didn’t have an abortion of a season like this one. Clemson fans standards rose because they were tired of seeing the team not turn a corner. Maybe it is best to leave your little bubble and realize that the average person is not pay their hard earned money to watch their team lose consistently and watch an offense that is impotent against big time opponents. What I mean to say is the Clemson fans saw that the school actually gave a damn about the team ( you know like not giving the coach a contract extension after a losing season.)

 

[MikeJackets1967]

Yes but they didn’t have an abortion of a season like this one. Clemson fans standards rose because they were tired of seeing the team not turn a corner. Maybe it is best to leave your little bubble and realize that the average person is not pay their hard earned money to watch their team lose consistently and watch an offense that is impotent against big time opponents.

Back in those days you would see a whole lot more South Carolina bumper plates and stickers than you would Clemson bumper plates and stickers.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Yes but they didn’t have an abortion of a season like this one. Clemson fans standards rose because they were tired of seeing the team not turn a corner. Maybe it is best to leave your little bubble and realize that the average person is not pay their hard earned money to watch their team lose consistently and watch an offense that is impotent against big time opponents.

So they saw a team turning the corner, but they didn’t see a team turning a corner. Got it.

When the team is having a hard season, that’s when they need you the most. And you’re running away and turning your back on them when they need you the most.

 

[Vespidae]

I know its not fair to completely compare Clemson to Tech. They don't have anything to do, a larger fan base, more alumni etc etc etc etc etc. But my point is that it is one thing WE HAVE UNDER OUR CONTROL. There is nothing stopping more of us from giving money and going to games. There are no academic restrictions on that and so on and so forth.

Totally agree. That's why I buy STH and some swag every year.

But does Tech have ONE PERSON actually in charge of driving attendance? I expect not.

 

[first&ten]

I point out 1998 bc that was an abysmal season for them. The coach got fired because he was not able to turn that corner.

I am sorry the facts I presented caused you to have a hissy fit. I was just pointing out that losing football leads to decline in attendance no matter the program.

Ha, living in the south for most of my life I've heard that term "hissy fit" but I don't know if I have ever seen one! Can anyone on gtswarm describe what happens to a person when that occurs? Just trying to broaden my knowledge.