How Good Was Coach Johnson at Tech?

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,390
This isn't directed at you but I want to piggyback. Everyone here assuming that if Collins doesn't win a natty then Monken definitely would have is the dumbest thing I keep seeing. I like Monken but we don't know if he was just gonna slide in here and start winning trophies, we'll never know. But if you really want to see annoying just wait til Collins loses a game and the option crowd starts blowing up the threads, its gonna be nuts. People need to get their head on straight and get out of their feelings.

LOL. Seriously. Like I said somewhere else, when CGC loses a game (chances are it will be his first one since we play Clemson) it's going to turn into bizaro world here. The 5-10 guys who were vocal about defending all things negative about CPJ and GT (you know who you are) are going to come out with vengeance with their negativity on all things non-CPJ and non-CPJ spread option.

1. CPJ quit.
2. People assume Monken would have burned rubber to come to GT after CPJ quit.

How about we all get on the GT train, and not just root for CPJ or CGC? Deal?
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,585
We did have a choice to keep the direction of the program and chose a different direction. That was @65Jacket's point ... and that is an extremely significant point and will remain so for the next few years. If we're lucky, CGC will be a big winner at GT and this point will go away. If not, it will remain the most significant point for possibly decades.

It will remain the most significant point to those blind to the reality. We went 24-24 the last 4 years and missed two bowl games. That was the direction of the program when Johnson retired. That was why so many people were "hating" on Johnson. He simply didn't win enough football games. It really isn't that complicated. But there will always be those who chant "2014 2014 2014" and act like that was some indication of where our program was heading.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,030
The personality of the fanbase and members of GTSwarm will not change.

The people who discuss reasonably with rightly used data will not become emotional whiners who state their baseless opinions as facts.

The emotional whiners who complain that rational discussion in support of a differing view is simply making excuses will not become thoughtful.

Hopefully, CGC will be successful and unite the fanbase, apart from the emotional whiners who will take it as opportunity to still troll the others.
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
9,779
The personality of the fanbase and members of GTSwarm will not change.

The people who discuss reasonably with rightly used data will not become emotional whiners who state their baseless opinions as facts.

The emotional whiners who complain that rational discussion in support of a differing view is simply making excuses will not become thoughtful.

Hopefully, CGC will be successful and unite the fanbase, apart from the emotional whiners who will take it as opportunity to still troll the others.
Cant disagree with logic and reasoning as it wins out over the long term. As u know in you business few understand logic. Of those that do, few of them will change thier mind.

Also looking forward to you spelling out the specific data u plan to use in support of your statement " we will know in a year".
As u conduct yourself as a professional debater, I think the board should value your conclusions. U called the Temple OC very early and now it seems obvious

I especially like your defense of Coach by sitting that the programs health is more than w and l.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,030
Cant disagree with logic and reasoning as it wins out over the long term. As u know in you business few understand logic. Of those that do, few of them will change thier mind.

Also looking forward to you spelling out the specific data u plan to use in support of your statement " we will know in a year".
As u conduct yourself as a professional debater, I think the board should value your conclusions. U called the Temple OC very early and now it seems obvious

I especially like your defense of Coach by sitting that the programs health is more than w and l.

I made the "We'll know next year" post in the midst of conversation about impacts on recruiting of our offense under CPJ in the "Collins'Effect" thread.

I saw data in support of both sides and was saying that we'll know next year whether recruiting has significantly improved.

Now, obviously the debate can continue because "too soon" and "one year" are also legitimate caveats.

However, we'll at least start to have data for comparison, which comparison will also serve as further data in response to this thread's question.
 

vamosjackets

GT Athlete
Featured Member
Messages
2,156
I think Monken would've been fun to watch. But the attitude that Tech is now going to be boring and do what every other team does is beat to death already. What did you guys do before Paul came to Atlanta? Did you just not like football?

Paul is gone and Todd didn't hire Jeff for whatver reason. Are we going to hear about this from the same 8 people every day for the next 10 years? I'm sad that Paul decided to quit Georgia Tech and I love the TO, but let's just enjoy this game today and then move tf on for everyone's benefit.
I can't tell if you're arguing with me. If you are, can you try a little harder or be more specific? If not, maybe it would help to not use blanket statements like "you guys".
 
Messages
140


Horrible Tweet

How about a professional broadcaster-sideline guy focus on W-L record which is the only Stat that counts

What's funny, is that HCs are normally judged by W-L record, yet for some reason everyone in the GTAA and many of TPR's acolytes wants to judge TPR on rushing yds, offensive efficiency, or some other obtuse, meaningless offensive Stat, any and everything except W-L record

HE WAS THE HC, not the OC for crissakes
 

vamosjackets

GT Athlete
Featured Member
Messages
2,156
This isn't directed at you but I want to piggyback. Everyone here assuming that if Collins doesn't win a natty then Monken definitely would have is the dumbest thing I keep seeing. I like Monken but we don't know if he was just gonna slide in here and start winning trophies, we'll never know. But if you really want to see annoying just wait til Collins loses a game and the option crowd starts blowing up the threads, its gonna be nuts. People need to get their head on straight and get out of their feelings.
Maybe you could specify who are these mythical "same 8 guys" or "the option crowd". What fonts do you consider to be illogical in their posts that fall on the "pro" "blind" option preference? It could be that there are some fonts who are illogically pro-ption to the detriment of them being logically pro-GT that are slipping my mind, and maybe if you reminded me of them, I might agree with you. But, in general, from what I've seen, the "option crowd" is nowhere nearly as driven by emotional tantrums as the general population which is why this board in particular has been an outlier of maturity for GT boards over the past 10-11 seasons. It's no coincidence that this board became what it was during the CPJ-tenure. Fonts like @Boomergump, @steebu, @stylee, @Longestday, @AE 87, among others have set the tone for this board with actual football talk, film commentary, stat commentary, etc rather than the typical "are we settling for mediocrity" BS after every loss or "we're going to the natty" after every win that you see on other fan-boards or "this guy is the next Hershel Walker" after every 4-star recruit looks our way (GT included). And, from what I've seen, the emotion level, the schtick level, the internet tough guy level, went up a few notches after the CPJ-retirement, CGC-hire. I absolutely plan to give CGC a fighting chance and the benefit of the doubt and at least 2 or 3 years to properly evaluate. Doing this and believing that we missed the mark on not hiring Monken are not mutually exclusive. I would expect every "option guy" to do the same because usually they have a lot of football and common sense. It's the "Option, LOL" guys that make it a little harder for me to enjoy the board and to actually want to see positives about CGC (and there definitely are some). So, if you want to drive those kinds of folks away or put a pseudo-wedge between them and CGC succeeding then keep doing what you're doing, I guess. When I say "you" I don't really mean you, @Milwaukee, you're not that bad. I mean it as a generic "you" to all those who go a little nuts anytime someone mentions anything to do with the option and GT.

For my part, to lay my cards on the table (as I think I've already been doing), I loved the CPJ era, the option, the culture created, and many other things. I wanted Monken badly because I think we had the chance to be extremely successful some years (with a good QB and a couple other pieces) and enjoy good success most years (without those pieces), and because I think Monken himself has about the best resume in the country regardless of scheme. We finally had a defense that looked like it was going somewhere and stats that could back up that feeling. I loved that we weren't trying to be anybody else and were trying to be the best in the world at what we do. I'm also probably very different from most on here who share those sentiments with me in that I also loved Coach Gailey. I played for him and saw what kind of man he was. I also thought that there was a lot of illogical criticism of him as well (though some was warranted). He had a great running game and a great defense; all he was missing was QB play which could've come through one player or a simple coaching change at that position or a tweak in the OC department. And, he was starting to get the recruiting going in a way that we've actually never seen at GT. (They fired him right after the '07 class, which was pretty darn dumb, if you asked me). But, hiring CPJ is what saved it for me - it made a ton of sense to me, and he won me over even more during his time here. I will not be able to not think about the option and what we had (double negative, sorry) as we go forward. If that gets on your nerves, I apologize and ask you to bear with me on that.

I promise that...
1. I will give CGC time to make his own mark on GT football (at least 2-3 years, even into the 4th) before serious judgment.
2. I will look for the positives and offer constructive comments on any negatives without personal attack.
3. I will try to be understanding of the "giddiness" over CGC and the new hope for recruiting.
4. I will not nitpick every move CGC makes or every aspect of the new offensive system.
5. I will try to be objective in evaluating all aspects of the team, using the best stats available to do so.

Here is a sincere question: what else would you have me and the "option crowd" do? I mean that sincerely. If there is anything else that you would like to see from any of us who share these sentiments, I want to know. I have blind spots, I don't know everything, and can grow in wisdom from your constructive criticism of me. Any requests, please don't hesitate to make them.

My only requests are:
1. Have sympathy for me in not being able to quickly leave the option and CPJ-tree thoughts behind.
2. Don't compliment CGC and his tenure at the expense of the CPJ tenure.
3. Don't act like the option is some lesser form of football.
There may be more that I think of as we go, and I'll share them with you if you want to hear them.

Sorry for the long post - this is some pent up stuff. Thanks for listening. Go Jackets!
 

THWG

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,187
Horrible Tweet

How about a professional broadcaster-sideline guy focus on W-L record which is the only Stat that counts

What's funny, is that HCs are normally judged by W-L record, yet for some reason everyone in the GTAA and many of TPR's acolytes wants to judge TPR on rushing yds, offensive efficiency, or some other obtuse, meaningless offensive Stat, any and everything except W-L record

HE WAS THE HC, not the OC for crissakes
Screw off man.
 

TheTechGuy

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
922
Horrible Tweet

How about a professional broadcaster-sideline guy focus on W-L record which is the only Stat that counts

What's funny, is that HCs are normally judged by W-L record, yet for some reason everyone in the GTAA and many of TPR's acolytes wants to judge TPR on rushing yds, offensive efficiency, or some other obtuse, meaningless offensive Stat, any and everything except W-L record

HE WAS THE HC, not the OC for crissakes
Back from out-of-country just in time for the bowl game.

This @NtTomNtPhilGCollins is a DAMF. You’ll know he is a troll if GT loses today, because he’ll be excited.
 

Milwaukee

Banned
Messages
7,277
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Maybe you could specify who are these mythical "same 8 guys" or "the option crowd". What fonts do you consider to be illogical in their posts that fall on the "pro" "blind" option preference? It could be that there are some fonts who are illogically pro-ption to the detriment of them being logically pro-GT that are slipping my mind, and maybe if you reminded me of them, I might agree with you. But, in general, from what I've seen, the "option crowd" is nowhere nearly as driven by emotional tantrums as the general population which is why this board in particular has been an outlier of maturity for GT boards over the past 10-11 seasons. It's no coincidence that this board became what it was during the CPJ-tenure. Fonts like @Boomergump, @steebu, @stylee, @Longestday, @AE 87, among others have set the tone for this board with actual football talk, film commentary, stat commentary, etc rather than the typical "are we settling for mediocrity" BS after every loss or "we're going to the natty" after every win that you see on other fan-boards or "this guy is the next Hershel Walker" after every 4-star recruit looks our way (GT included). And, from what I've seen, the emotion level, the schtick level, the internet tough guy level, went up a few notches after the CPJ-retirement, CGC-hire. I absolutely plan to give CGC a fighting chance and the benefit of the doubt and at least 2 or 3 years to properly evaluate. Doing this and believing that we missed the mark on not hiring Monken are not mutually exclusive. I would expect every "option guy" to do the same because usually they have a lot of football and common sense. It's the "Option, LOL" guys that make it a little harder for me to enjoy the board and to actually want to see positives about CGC (and there definitely are some). So, if you want to drive those kinds of folks away or put a pseudo-wedge between them and CGC succeeding then keep doing what you're doing, I guess. When I say "you" I don't really mean you, @Milwaukee, you're not that bad. I mean it as a generic "you" to all those who go a little nuts anytime someone mentions anything to do with the option and GT.

For my part, to lay my cards on the table (as I think I've already been doing), I loved the CPJ era, the option, the culture created, and many other things. I wanted Monken badly because I think we had the chance to be extremely successful some years (with a good QB and a couple other pieces) and enjoy good success most years (without those pieces), and because I think Monken himself has about the best resume in the country regardless of scheme. We finally had a defense that looked like it was going somewhere and stats that could back up that feeling. I loved that we weren't trying to be anybody else and were trying to be the best in the world at what we do. I'm also probably very different from most on here who share those sentiments with me in that I also loved Coach Gailey. I played for him and saw what kind of man he was. I also thought that there was a lot of illogical criticism of him as well (though some was warranted). He had a great running game and a great defense; all he was missing was QB play which could've come through one player or a simple coaching change at that position or a tweak in the OC department. And, he was starting to get the recruiting going in a way that we've actually never seen at GT. (They fired him right after the '07 class, which was pretty darn dumb, if you asked me). But, hiring CPJ is what saved it for me - it made a ton of sense to me, and he won me over even more during his time here. I will not be able to not think about the option and what we had (double negative, sorry) as we go forward. If that gets on your nerves, I apologize and ask you to bear with me on that.

I promise that...
1. I will give CGC time to make his own mark on GT football (at least 2-3 years, even into the 4th) before serious judgment.
2. I will look for the positives and offer constructive comments on any negatives without personal attack.
3. I will try to be understanding of the "giddiness" over CGC and the new hope for recruiting.
4. I will not nitpick every move CGC makes or every aspect of the new offensive system.
5. I will try to be objective in evaluating all aspects of the team, using the best stats available to do so.

Here is a sincere question: what else would you have me and the "option crowd" do? I mean that sincerely. If there is anything else that you would like to see from any of us who share these sentiments, I want to know. I have blind spots, I don't know everything, and can grow in wisdom from your constructive criticism of me. Any requests, please don't hesitate to make them.

My only requests are:
1. Have sympathy for me in not being able to quickly leave the option and CPJ-tree thoughts behind.
2. Don't compliment CGC and his tenure at the expense of the CPJ tenure.
3. Don't act like the option is some lesser form of football.
There may be more that I think of as we go, and I'll share them with you if you want to hear them.

Sorry for the long post - this is some pent up stuff. Thanks for listening. Go Jackets!

I can't like this post enough. None of the posters you mentioned are irrational...except for AE. Nobody likes AE. I'm KIDDING.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,725
Everyone said that about this year too.

Most outside forecasts had us improving, but not by much. Some had us missing out on a bowl again. We overachieved against most outside expectations.

I know I definitely thought the Pitt, USF, and Duke games would be tough wins.

While some people made posts like “playoffs, baby”, or “13-0”, I don’t think most fans expected an ACC championship game against Clemson this year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

THWG16

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
811
It will remain the most significant point to those blind to the reality. We went 24-24 the last 4 years and missed two bowl games. That was the direction of the program when Johnson retired. That was why so many people were "hating" on Johnson. He simply didn't win enough football games. It really isn't that complicated. But there will always be those who chant "2014 2014 2014" and act like that was some indication of where our program was heading.
Careful , people love some Paul Johnson on here
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
Staff member
Messages
12,279
Location
Marietta, GA
The personality of the fanbase and members of GTSwarm will not change.

The people who discuss reasonably with rightly used data will not become emotional whiners who state their baseless opinions as facts.

The emotional whiners who complain that rational discussion in support of a differing view is simply making excuses will not become thoughtful.

Hopefully, CGC will be successful and unite the fanbase, apart from the emotional whiners who will take it as opportunity to still troll the others.
Worth having folks read again.
+1
 
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