How Good Was Coach Johnson at Tech?

[ibeattetris]

I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure he never mentioned anything about “aiming”

The poster is basically saying CPJ called GT mediocre with that comment, without actually saying mediocre. I think we can all agree 6-6 is mediocre. However, I won’t say CPJ was trying to say the program is mediocre, don’t think we can 100 percent say that was his intention.

Everyone is missing the context from the interview. The question had to with perceptions of him and the program, and he stated that claiming our average number of wins is bad when it aligns with our program average is unfair.

I don't think anyone thinks we shouldn't strive to be better than we are currently, but I agree that calling CPJ bad because his average win rate is par for GT's course is a bit disingenuous (and in my opinion pretty dumb considering the resource limitations imposed upon him by our previous AD).

 

[Boaty1]

I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure he never mentioned anything about “aiming”

The poster is basically saying CPJ called GT mediocre with that comment, without actually saying mediocre. I think we can all agree 6-6 is mediocre. However, I won’t say CPJ was trying to say the program is mediocre, don’t think we can 100 percent say that was his intention.

His comment was in response to a reporter asking him about the downturn in the program since 14. Instead of acknowledging the fact that the results were not what any of us had hoped and move on, he chose to inform us that GT is historically a 6 win program. This was extremely self serving and inaccurate. Since college football went to a 12 game season + a bowl game, it is far more accurate to say GT is an 8 win team as we have averaged just under 8 wins a season. Something like 7.85. The moment he chose to try to paint our program in a negative light instead of taking responsibility as any true leader should is the moment I decided new leadership was called for.

 

[ibeattetris]

His comment was in response to a reporter asking him about the downturn in the program since 14. Instead of acknowledging the fact that the results were not what any of us had hoped and move on, he chose to inform us that GT is historically a 6 win program. This was extremely self serving and inaccurate. Since college football went to a 12 game season + a bowl game, it is far more accurate to say GT is an 8 win team as we have averaged just under 8 wins a season. Something like 7.85. The moment he chose to try to paint our program in a negative light instead of taking responsibility as any true leader should is the moment I decided new leadership was called for.

He is within 1% of GT's all time win%.

Should we aim to be better than that? Yes. Is he right in saying he has performed what has been average for GT? Literally, yes.

CPJ doesn't sugar coat things, and that makes people mad. A different coach probably does try to spin this in a different light, but that isn't who he is. CPJ is the HC of a program that is second to last in the ACC in spending and is still churning out teams that are better than its competitors in the majority of seasons.

Hopefully TStan gives Collins better support than MBob gave CPJ.

 

[CTJacket]

He is within 1% of GT's all time win%.

Should we aim to be better than that? Yes. Is he right in saying he has performed what has been average for GT? Literally, yes.

CPJ doesn't sugar coat things, and that makes people mad. A different coach probably does try to spin this in a different light, but that isn't who he is. CPJ is the HC of a program that is second to last in the ACC in spending and is still churning out teams that are better than its competitors in the majority of seasons.

Hopefully TStan gives Collins better support than MBob gave CPJ.

@ibeattetris, I really don't know what's so hard for people to understand. It's crazy to be honest. And any time someone brings up Gailey as CPJ's peer they lose me. You nailed it though IM(NS)HO

 

[iceeater1969]

If Bill lxxxx added elon and Presbyterian to his schedule, he would have been 6-6 his first 2 years.
Coach was great here while the support here was lousy.
IMO, It now (3 YRS) support gets better or it will a lot lower than 6-6

 

[Boaty1]

He is within 1% of GT's all time win%.

Should we aim to be better than that? Yes. Is he right in saying he has performed what has been average for GT? Literally, yes.

CPJ doesn't sugar coat things, and that makes people mad. A different coach probably does try to spin this in a different light, but that isn't who he is. CPJ is the HC of a program that is second to last in the ACC in spending and is still churning out teams that are better than its competitors in the majority of seasons.

Hopefully TStan gives Collins better support than MBob gave CPJ.

We are not a 6 win program in modern college football with a 12 game regular season. We are an 8 win program. Not sugar coating things would have been to acknowledge his programs shortcomings in 15,16 & 17. He didn't do that. Instead he chose to devalue our programs average win total by 25%. Not sure why that is not a big deal to you but it is to me. The program should always come above the individual. A coach above everyone else should understand this.

Being a 6 win program with a 12 game regular season is to be a below 500 program. This is not what we are.

 

[ibeattetris]

If Bill lxxxx added elon and Presbyterian to his schedule, he would have been 6-6 his first 2 years.
Coach was great here while the support here was lousy.
IMO, It now (3 YRS) support gets better or it will a lot lower than 6-6

He played Furman and West Carolina though. We also have to remember that the ACC's bottom is better than it used to be. In 1993 Duke, WF, and MD all had 3 or less losses.

I also made sure to use win% and not total wins in my post, as I do realize that total wins is not representative.

 

[ibeattetris]

We are not a 6 win program in modern college football with a 12 game regular season. We are an 8 win program. Not sugar coating things would have been to acknowledge his programs shortcomings in 15,16 & 17. He didn't do that. Instead he chose to devalue our programs average win total by 25%. Not sure why that is not a big deal to you but it is to me. The program should always come above the individual. A coach above everyone else should understand this.

Being a 6 win program with a 12 game regular season is to be a below 500 program. This is not what we are.

I am not going to begin splitting hairs and defining what "modern college football" means or what years we should count. CPJ did not say he is performing the same in the modern era. He said historically if you look back he is winning at the same rate.

All time GT record: 59.1%
CPJ GT record: 58.5%

If someone wants to break down win percentages across some arbitrary definition of be my guess, but then you are adding stipulations to his words that weren't there. He is within 0.6% of the GT historic win rate. So historically, he has won as much as other coaches. It is a fact. It isn't a pretty fact, and maybe it isn't a fact he needs to discuss in the media. He isn't devaluing our program by stating a fact, and honestly I think if you asked him, he would say he is disgusted that he could not have performed better, but that isn't the question being asked.

It is what it is.

 

[Boaty1]

I am not going to begin splitting hairs and defining what "modern college football" means or what years we should count. CPJ did not say he is performing the same in the modern era. He said historically if you look back he is winning at the same rate.

All time GT record: 59.1%
CPJ GT record: 58.5%

If someone wants to break down win percentages across some arbitrary definition of be my guess, but then you are adding stipulations to his words that weren't there. He is within 0.6% of the GT historic win rate. So historically, he has won as much as other coaches. It is a fact. It isn't a pretty fact, and maybe it isn't a fact he needs to discuss in the media. He isn't devaluing our program by stating a fact, and honestly I think if you asked him, he would say he is disgusted that he could not have performed better, but that isn't the question being asked.

It is

Never mind. Let’s go get an OC that can win more than 6 games.

 

[Boaty1]

Nevermind

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure he never mentioned anything about “aiming”

The poster is basically saying CPJ called GT mediocre with that comment, without actually saying mediocre. I think we can all agree 6-6 is mediocre. However, I won’t say CPJ was trying to say the program is mediocre, don’t think we can 100 percent say that was his intention.

Ya he never said aiming. He said CPJ claimed Tech was a mediocre program. Which was complete bull.

I was trying to say it diplomatically but if straight talk is required there ya go.

To get back on topic. There are a lot of OC candidates out there. Will be interesting to see if we grab one we identify from afar or go with someone who has had prior ties to CGC.

 

[Animal02]

He played Furman and West Carolina though. We also have to remember that the ACC's bottom is better than it used to be. In 1993 Duke, WF, and MD all had 3 or less losses.

I also made sure to use win% and not total wins in my post, as I do realize that total wins is not representative.

Facts hurt his narrative

 

[ibeattetris]

Facts hurt his narrative

Nah @iceeater1969 is good. I always felt he liked CPJ and wished he had more success. His general though is right, B*** L**** only played 11 games. If he had an additional easy win his first two years, he would have been 6-6. But it wouldn’t have been from an FCS/Div1 AA team since we were already playing furman and west Carolina. I do still think the bottom of the ACC was way worse than the bottom of the ACC is today.

 

[Animal02]

Nah @iceeater1969 is good. I always felt he liked CPJ and wished he had more success. His general though is right, B*** L**** only played 11 games. If he had an additional easy win his first two years, he would have been 6-6. But it wouldn’t have been from an FCS/Div1 AA team since we were already playing furman and west Carolina. I do still think the bottom of the ACC was way worse than the bottom of the ACC is today.

Not Ice....boaty

 

[ibeattetris]

Not Ice....boaty

My response was to ice though

 

[Animal02]

My response was to ice though

Responded to the wrong post

 

[Eli]

Ya he never said aiming. He said CPJ claimed Tech was a mediocre program. Which was complete bull.

I was trying to say it diplomatically but if straight talk is required there ya go.

To get back on topic. There are a lot of OC candidates out there. Will be interesting to see if we grab one we identify from afar or go with someone who has had prior ties to CGC.

Look I love Paul Johnson but a head coach who is selling your program at all times should never say.."Historically this program is 6-6." It's like you being the CEO of a company and the board members want answers as to why your numbers are declining. Should you tell them "Well historically this company is pretty average." No

 

[ibeattetris]

Look I love Paul Johnson but a head coach who is selling your program at all times should never say.."Historically this program is 6-6." It's like you being the CEO of a company and the board members want answers as to why your numbers are declining. Should you tell them "Well historically this company is pretty average." No

Agreed, if those were his actual words, which they weren’t. I do agree that defending yourself by saying you meet the average is weak. The problem was he was defending the position of not being worse than GT has been historically. He was in the position of defense and he wasn’t in the position of selling. It came off sounding worse than it was. Especially 2 months removed from the actual occurrence. I spent some time trying to find the interview and couldn’t. Would mind it being relinked if someone remembers the specific one.

 

[Boaty1]

Agreed, if those were his actual words, which they weren’t. I do agree that defending yourself by saying you meet the average is weak. The problem was he was defending the position of not being worse than GT has been historically. He was in the position of defense and he wasn’t in the position of selling. It came off sounding worse than it was. Especially 2 months removed from the actual occurrence. I spent some time trying to find the interview and couldn’t. Would mind it being relinked if someone remembers the specific one.

Just tell me where I’m wrong. Our record for 15-17 was 17-19. Johnson was asked about the downturn over these years specifically and responded with “we are a 6 win program.” He was very condescending of the program and basically said there was not a downturn during this time which is crap. Data supports my point. Show me another 3 year stretch since 96 where we were under 500 and I’ll concede your point.

I really don’t like arguing but when we are getting facts wrong on this board to support a narrative about our previous coach it’s hard for me to let it go.

 

[ibeattetris]

Just tell me where I’m wrong. Our record for 15-17 was 17-19. Johnson was asked about the downturn over these years specifically and responded with “we are a 6 win program.” He was very condescending of the program and basically said there was not a downturn during this time which is crap. Data supports my point. Show me another 3 year stretch since 96 where we were under 500 and I’ll concede your point.

I really don’t like arguing but when we are getting facts wrong on this board to support a narrative about our previous coach it’s hard for me to let it go.

I do not remember him saying 6 win, I remember him saying 7 win. However, after looking for about 30 minutes I could not find the press conference where it happened.

Since I cannot find it, then I am really not sure. I would have sworn he said 7 win program, which if he did, is pretty accurate. If he said 6 win, he was wrong, it's just not what I remember happening.

I did find this AJC article which I think was referencing CPJ's words.
https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/...-tech-fans-complaints/Y50AVk9dPrbIL6o012q8KM/

I thought this was interesting:

Johnson was referring to what he perceives as fans measuring him against expectations that don’t match what Tech has accomplished since Bobby Dodd’s retirement at the end of the 1966 season.

From 1967 through 2007, the last season before his hire, Tech’s overall winning percentage was .526, with the Jackets not playing in a major bowl and winning two ACC championships with one shared national championship. In his tenure, Johnson’s winning percentage is .575. Tech has won an ACC title, played for two more and twice played in the Orange Bowl.

Again, since I can't find his actual words I don't mind dropping it. I agree that if he said we are a six win program he was wrong, but it wasn't what I remembered personally.