Here's a thought

[cthenrys]

monken doesn’t have to play a whole lot of better talent and even then aside from giving some better teams scares in close games he has really won against any great teams. he’s also had a few AWFUL seasons mixed in.

good coach for what he does but i don’t think he’s quite ready for power 5 football

Maybe, but……

 

[Pointer]

i think we all know reality is when guys say we need a “scheme” coach it’s just a roundabout way to say we need to go back to the option.

i really have no issue with whatever coach we sign and get but one thing is for certain and that’s that they have to be recruiters because until clemson and uga are off the schedule bringing in some guy that can’t recruit but has a “scheme” is just a waste. we can’t recruit at a top 10 level obviously but we need to be in the top 30 recruiting wise and we have to bring in some real talent on defense to compete with teams like that. regardless of the offense

If the NIL era hasn't disproved the "good recruiter" myth yet, then I don't know what will. The schools that have historically been buying players, are somehow always able to have the best recruiters? Yet when those coaches leave for programs not historically known for recruiting, they don't match the same levels of recruiting as the high paying (to recruits) schools did.

The same places recruit at a high level every year.

Again this is in the top 15 range, everything outside of that is a crap shoot.

Tell me with a straight face that you think CGC (or anyone else) can get Tech to consistently recruit in the top 15 (let alone top 25), because that's what it will take for Tech to compete with the big boys consistently by playing that game.

Now you run what costal does, or even the option, spend your big money on a good defensive coordinator who also has a schematic advantage, then you can have some great years sprinkled in to consistently decent teams.

Allot of you guys want Tech to be like Tennessee, Alabama, and Georgia... News flash IT AIN'T HAPPENING. I would love to get the type of players they get all the time, but... IT AIN'T HAPPENING. We don't spend enough buying players, and that's only getting worse.

What do we, as an institute who consider ourselves to be above average intelligence? We need to find another way to win, instead of being envious of SEC programs and UGA. Their model will not work here. We need to put scheme, and keep up CGC 's good marketing. That's just my thinking anyways.

 

[JacketFan137]

If the NIL era hasn't disproved the "good recruiter" myth yet, then I don't know what will. The schools that have historically been buying players, are somehow always able to have the best recruiters? Yet when those coaches leave for programs not historically known for recruiting, they don't match the same levels of recruiting as the high paying (to recruits) schools did.

The same places recruit at a high level every year.

Again this is in the top 15 range, everything outside of that is a crap shoot.

Tell me with a straight face that you think CGC (or anyone else) can get Tech to consistently recruit in the top 15 (let alone top 25), because that's what it will take for Tech to compete with the big boys consistently by playing that game.

Now you run what costal does, or even the option, spend your big money on a good defensive coordinator who also has a schematic advantage, then you can have some great years sprinkled in to consistently decent teams.

Allot of you guys want Tech to be like Tennessee, Alabama, and Georgia... News flash IT AIN'T HAPPENING. I would love to get the type of players they get all the time, but... IT AIN'T HAPPENING. We don't spend enough buying players, and that's only getting worse.

What do we, as an institute who consider ourselves to be above average intelligence? We need to find another way to win, instead of being envious of SEC programs and UGA. Their model will not work here. We need to put scheme, and keep up CGC 's good marketing. That's just my thinking anyways.

the problem is there isn’t a schematic advantage that can make up the talent and most of the scheme guys aka option coaches are either not good recruiters or their system pretty much prohibits good recruits from coming in.

to be consistent year after year competing with them you probably need to recruit at that level but at this point just getting into the top 30 and developing those guys could probably turn the tide a little bit whenever we have a solid senior class or a great qb. collins got one class in the top 25 but unfortunately did not secure the momentum as he could not produce.

none of that is to say that we can’t have a “scheme coach” just has to be one that can actually recruit. a guy like malzahn would not be bad at all. i think we just have to get both and not hire a coach with a system that isn’t gonna agree with that

 

[Blue&Gold1034]

If the NIL era hasn't disproved the "good recruiter" myth yet, then I don't know what will. The schools that have historically been buying players, are somehow always able to have the best recruiters? Yet when those coaches leave for programs not historically known for recruiting, they don't match the same levels of recruiting as the high paying (to recruits) schools did.

The same places recruit at a high level every year.

Again this is in the top 15 range, everything outside of that is a crap shoot.

Tell me with a straight face that you think CGC (or anyone else) can get Tech to consistently recruit in the top 15 (let alone top 25), because that's what it will take for Tech to compete with the big boys consistently by playing that game.

Now you run what costal does, or even the option, spend your big money on a good defensive coordinator who also has a schematic advantage, then you can have some great years sprinkled in to consistently decent teams.

Allot of you guys want Tech to be like Tennessee, Alabama, and Georgia... News flash IT AIN'T HAPPENING. I would love to get the type of players they get all the time, but... IT AIN'T HAPPENING. We don't spend enough buying players, and that's only getting worse.

What do we, as an institute who consider ourselves to be above average intelligence? We need to find another way to win, instead of being envious of SEC programs and UGA. Their model will not work here. We need to put scheme, and keep up CGC 's good marketing. That's just my thinking anyways.

I will say it with a straight face. We can recruit in the top 25 simply due to the amount of talent that is in the southeast, particularly in the state of GA. We have seen that it is possible to recruit at that level given CGC 2020 class and the 2022 class before everything went south. Get a coach who can both recruit and provide a good product on the field, and Tech could be on the level of the OK States and Baylors. We know that its almost impossible to catch up to UGA, Clemson, and Bama so I won't shoot that high.

 

[JacketFan137]

I will say it with a straight face. We can recruit in the top 25 simply due to the amount of talent that is in the southeast, particularly in the state of GA. We have seen that it is possible to recruit at that level given CGC 2020 class and the 2022 class before everything went south. Get a coach who can both recruit and provide a good product on the field, and Tech could be on the level of the OK States and Baylors. We know that its almost impossible to catch up to UGA, Clemson, and Bama so I won't shoot that high.

exactly. there’s no reason we can’t achieve that. had collins had good coordinators/had a clue on game days that was a realistic goal he probably could have gotten the program to

i don’t think we need to just give up on that and run an option and settle for awful recruiting classes

 

[bobongo]

monken doesn’t have to play a whole lot of better talent and even then aside from giving some better teams scares in close games he has really won against any great teams. he’s also had a few AWFUL seasons mixed in.

good coach for what he does but i don’t think he’s quite ready for power 5 football

Is there a reason for saying this beyond the fact that he runs the option?

He's had one losing season after his first two at Army, before he got them turned around. Since then, he's 52-25 at Army.

Jeff Monken - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JacketFan137]

Is there a reason for saying this beyond the fact that he runs the option?

He's had one losing season after his first two at Army, before he got them turned around. Since then, he's 52-25 at Army.

Jeff Monken - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

3 seasons below 6 wins at that level and is basically a glorified OC. no experience at the p5 level except for a 2 year stint as our RB coach. he hasn’t been asked to recruit at the p5 level and that is a whole new world entirely. if he DIDN’T run the option you guys would be saying he wasn’t qualified.

no thank you. he is not what we need right now

 

[bobongo]

3 seasons below 6 wins at that level and is basically a glorified OC. no experience at the p5 level except for a 2 year stint as our RB coach. he hasn’t been asked to recruit at the p5 level and that is a whole new world entirely. if he DIDN’T run the option you guys would be saying he wasn’t qualified.

no thank you. he is not what we need right now

Good grief. After his first two seasons, he's 52-25. He inherited a team that won 8 games in the previous three years. The Collins/Monken double standard is glaring.

And, no, I would not say he was "unqualified" if he didn't run the option. I've been advocating for bringing a coach up from the lower ranks for a long time, option or no option.

 

[JacketFan137]

Good grief. After his first two seasons, he's 52-25. He inherited a team that won 8 games in the previous three years. The Collins/Monken double standard is glaring.

And, no, I would not say he was "unqualified" if he didn't run the option. I've been advocating for bringing a coach up from the lower ranks for a long time, option or no option.

never said anything about collins related to this discussion but here you are acting like i did. strange behavior…

 

[CEB]

i think the issue is there isn’t some magical scheme that can out maneuver these guys. the key is getting talent in and developing it. collins got it in but couldn’t develop it and honestly i think it would have stayed if we could have won more games.

i think there are certainly some schematic advantages that can be created like more tempo, using TEs more etc so i am pretty excited about what long will bring to the table. i just don’t see what going to an option would do for us because that system really just can’t handle d lines with the athletes our two biggest rivals have at this point.

i think recruiting and development (both physically and skill wise) is our only path to success

Agreed on the “magical scheme.” That’s kind of a straw man argument. If there were such a scheme, then everyone would run it and I would advocate we run something a little different so we weren’t trying to beat them all at their own game!
We’re not going to be a perennial top 20 recruiting school. Period. Even if we were, each year there are 19 schools who recruit in the top 20 and don’t win a national championship. There are AT LEAST 15 schools in the top 20 in recruiting that don’t win a P5 conference championship. It’s no more a magic bullet than the “magic scheme.” I’m just in the camp that I think we are going to move the needle a lot more by recruiting the best we can to a scheme that differentiates is from the factories.

 

[JacketFan137]

Agreed on the “magical scheme.” That’s kind of a straw man argument. If there were such a scheme, then everyone would run it and I would advocate we run something a little different so we weren’t trying to beat them all at their own game!
We’re not going to be a perennial top 20 recruiting school. Period. Even if we were, each year there are 19 schools who recruit in the top 20 and don’t win a national championship. There are AT LEAST 15 schools in the top 20 in recruiting that don’t win a P5 conference championship. It’s no more a magic bullet than the “magic scheme.” I’m just in the camp that I think we are going to move the needle a lot more by recruiting the best we can to a scheme that differentiates is from the factories.

yeah i think it’s gonna take scheme AND talent to get over the hump. whatever “scheme” advantage we get is going to have to also allow us to recruit talent on both sides of the ball. there’s no scheme advantage to offset a massive gap in talent.

we have to be recruiting around the top 20 to even talk about being competitive with uga and clemson. i honestly think we could do that with the right coach if they are a great recruiter and they can actually get results on the field

for some reason i think people have fallen into the self fulfilling prophecy from the excuses of a prior regime that said they couldn’t recruit at tech

 

[bobongo]

never said anything about collins related to this discussion but here you are acting like i did. strange behavior…

And i never said you said it relating to this particular discussion, but you've been prolific in your excuses elsewhere regarding the overblown "transition".
It's a blatant double standard, but nothing strange about that behavior - it's all over these pages.

 

[slugboy]

What are we talking about?

 

[JacketFan137]

And i never said you said it relating to this particular discussion, but you've been prolific in your excuses elsewhere regarding the overblown "transition".
It's a blatant double standard, but nothing strange about that behavior - it's all over these pages.

i think we’re past the point of having rational discussion because you’ve made it abundantly clear that you have a bone to pick with anyone who dares offer up anything regarding collins that is not some form of “he is the worst coach to ever walk this earth”. i have in almost every thread said that collins is a pretty bad coach on game day. that being said there are some objective problems he has faced that would have been roadblocks for anyone and are compounded by the fact that this actually was a pretty significant transition. this is pretty obvious to anyone with a basic understanding of football recruiting, game planning and x’s and o’s.

there is no double standard here. collins was a bad hire, but if you think about the goal of the hire it’s pretty easy to see the intentions were correct. things didn’t work out, he’ll get a year to right the ship if he doesn’t then we can move on.

for the millionth time, if he was fired tomorrow i would move on with my life and wish him the best. i can understand why he was brought back though and guess what? nothing any of us say or do here is gonna get him fired any faster or slower so we might as well just support the team and live with it whether that’s 1 year, 2 years or however long.

the continued attempts to make things personal are getting quite old and if you keep having issues take it up in private please

 

[forensicbuzz]

i think we’re past the point of having rational discussion because you’ve made it abundantly clear that you have a bone to pick with anyone who dares offer up anything regarding collins that is not some form of “he is the worst coach to ever walk this earth”. i have in almost every thread said that collins is a pretty bad coach on game day. that being said there are some objective problems he has faced that would have been roadblocks for anyone and are compounded by the fact that this actually was a pretty significant transition. this is pretty obvious to anyone with a basic understanding of football recruiting, game planning and x’s and o’s.

there is no double standard here. collins was a bad hire, but if you think about the goal of the hire it’s pretty easy to see the intentions were correct. things didn’t work out, he’ll get a year to right the ship if he doesn’t then we can move on.

for the millionth time, if he was fired tomorrow i would move on with my life and wish him the best. i can understand why he was brought back though and guess what? nothing any of us say or do here is gonna get him fired any faster or slower so we might as well just support the team and live with it whether that’s 1 year, 2 years or however long.

the continued attempts to make things personal are getting quite old and if you keep having issues take it up in private please

Read back through all the posts from certain fonts. Some are absolutely "ignore" worthy because they bring absolutely nothing to the conversation. It's obvious with some fonts that they don't understand football and just want to complain.

BTW, I encourage anyone who wants to ignore what I have to say to do so.

 

[Pointer]

I will say it with a straight face. We can recruit in the top 25 simply due to the amount of talent that is in the southeast, particularly in the state of GA. We have seen that it is possible to recruit at that level given CGC 2020 class and the 2022 class before everything went south. Get a coach who can both recruit and provide a good product on the field, and Tech could be on the level of the OK States and Baylors. We know that its almost impossible to catch up to UGA, Clemson, and Bama so I won't shoot that high.

I said top 15

There is a massive difference between top 25 and top 15. And it would be damn near impossible to do either consistently here.

 

[Pointer]

exactly. there’s no reason we can’t achieve that. had collins had good coordinators/had a clue on game days that was a realistic goal he probably could have gotten the program to

i don’t think we need to just give up on that and run an option and settle for awful recruiting classes

Had we paid up for a decent defensive coordinator when Johnson was here... See it works both ways, except one coach deserved the investment and got very little, while CGC has gotten allot more. In spite of that, since you and many others keep making the same excuses (unjustifiably) that you harp on others for when they (legitimately) bring it up about the last coaching staff.

How's this whole recruiting to win been working out so far?

 

[JacketFan137]

Had we paid up for a decent defensive coordinator when Johnson was here... See it works both ways, except one coach deserved the investment and got very little, while CGC has gotten allot more. In spite of that, since you and many others keep making the same excuses (unjustifiably) that you harp on others for when they (legitimately) bring it up about the last coaching staff.

How's this whole recruiting to win been working out so far?

i’m not making excuses brother. collins can recruit and he proved that with his 2020 class that was inside the top 30. i said he was unable to produce which is objectively true and his proceeding classes suffered. these are factual statements, not excuses lol

this is also exactly what i’m talking about. collins being a bad coach has people thinking we can’t possibly try to recruit. it’s really sad what people will settle for

 

[yeti92]

yeah i think it’s gonna take scheme AND talent to get over the hump. whatever “scheme” advantage we get is going to have to also allow us to recruit talent on both sides of the ball. there’s no scheme advantage to offset a massive gap in talent.

we have to be recruiting around the top 20 to even talk about being competitive with uga and clemson. i honestly think we could do that with the right coach if they are a great recruiter and they can actually get results on the field

for some reason i think people have fallen into the self fulfilling prophecy from the excuses of a prior regime that said they couldn’t recruit at tech

can you please provide suggestions of who you would like to see as our next coach?

 

[JacketFan137]

can you please provide suggestions of who you would like to see as our next coach?

ultimately hard to say without knowing how much our higher ups are willing to pay.

criteria that are musts

1. must recruit at a high level. either a coordinator at a big 10/sec/acc school that has a proven track record of great recruiting or a g5 coach that has them recruiting at a level above their peers.

2. a guy who brings a unique identity to the team that can still recruit. i’m not opposed to a “scheme” if that scheme allows us to recruit. option is very prohibitive to that on both sides of the ball. would love what you see at baylor, ucf, etc chip long seems to have a good idea of an identity for the program

3. a guy that will sell the program and wants to be here. i know it’s not a destination job like notre dame, bama etc but one thing i did appreciate about both paul and collins is it felt like this was a place they want to be

and last and more of my opinion than the other things i’ve mentioned is that i would prefer an offensive head coach. most of the time that is the route to success.

so i’m not sure what that will leave us with based on what we are willing to pay. i do think a coach with more roots in the southeast is also helpful cause we can use the resource that is georgia high schools. malzahn would honestly be a dream for me