Here's a thought

[yeti92]

I agree. I think we can get 7 or 8 a year and sometimes better, like VT. But … like you say, we have to win first.

well hopefully not like recent VT, they've only had two total 4 star recruits over the last 3 cycles.

 

[yeti92]

I will have to check the average recruit ranking. I usually use 247sports as they do a composite ranking from all recruiting websites, but unfortunately they do not have those numbers for Techs 2010 class.

I truly believe you are undervaluing the idea that the higher tier players available didn't want to play for Tech based on Johnson's scheme. Getting a guy like CGC in the building at that time would've only done so much. When he goes to a 4 star WR house and outlines that he'll be run blocking 90% of the time and might catch 10-12 passes during the year, how well do you think that would go? High school players at that level want to know how the program is going to benefit them i.e. how they will be prepared for the next level. Johnson's scheme didn't do that consistently.

I will agree that this off season moves were made to address weaknesses, but the same was true for Johnson. How many DC came and went under Johnson, particularly guys that had success coaching previously. Ted Roof came to Tech after coaching the Nittany Lions to a top 25 rank defense and same with Nate Woody.

Yea, Rivals has more consistent data further back then 247 since they used to be scout, and I'm not sure how much value is added to the composite by including ESPN's rankings.

I completely get that there are players who didn't want to play in the scheme and that there is a negative impact to recruiting because of that. I just don't think that impact is as great as you or some others like to believe, or that it couldn't be minimized much more than it was.

When he goes to that WR's house, he can point to Demaryius Thomas, Stephen Hill, Kevin Cone, Darren Waller, etc who all played in the offense and made the league. He can point to things like this article where ESPN called GT the best WR factory for the NFL in 2017. I'd say that sounds pretty damn appealing to a recruit, but maybe you don't think so.

ESPN names Georgia Tech ‘Best Wide Receiver Factory’ for NFL

Georgia Tech has been named the NFL's Best Wide Receiver Factory by ESPN.

www.ajc.com

As far as Johnson's D coordinators - the first one was fired for being not good, which I think we can agree on. As I recall Johnson wanted to hire Ellis Johnson but was told no you get Al Groh. Al Groh was fired and he was told here now you get Ted Roof, who was also not his pick. When Tech and Ted "mutually" parted ways, he got Woody who has shown himself to be a pretty good D coordinator, but only had him for a year and even Woody suggested it would take a year and a half or so to get the defense to gel and be firing on all cylinders like he hoped. Had Johnson stayed one more year I think the D would have taken a step up in 2019 under Woody. Not surprisingly, the scheme changes between all of these coordinators didn't help smooth out anything since we constantly had guys fit for the previous D.

 

[WreckinGT]

I will have to check the average recruit ranking. I usually use 247sports as they do a composite ranking from all recruiting websites, but unfortunately they do not have those numbers for Techs 2010 class.

I truly believe you are undervaluing the idea that the higher tier players available didn't want to play for Tech based on Johnson's scheme. Getting a guy like CGC in the building at that time would've only done so much. When he goes to a 4 star WR house and outlines that he'll be run blocking 90% of the time and might catch 10-12 passes during the year, how well do you think that would go? High school players at that level want to know how the program is going to benefit them i.e. how they will be prepared for the next level. Johnson's scheme didn't do that consistently.

I will agree that this off season moves were made to address weaknesses, but the same was true for Johnson. How many DC came and went under Johnson, particularly guys that had success coaching previously. Ted Roof came to Tech after coaching the Nittany Lions to a top 25 rank defense and same with Nate Woody.

On offense, its hard to argue against that. On defense, it's not really true. CPJ had more 4 star defensive recruits in his first 4 classes than CCG did, and more Rivals top 250 players than CGC did. CGC certainly raised the level of the 3 stars though. Overall our floor is a bit higher. Our ceiling is probably about the same.

 

[forensicbuzz]

In the end, it's still college football. Winning and losing is going to come down to coaching. The teams with the best coaches are going to find ways to win and sustain winning. Look at all the top programs that cycle in and out. It's all based on the head coach. So, if people really want to invest in the future of their team, help the AA bring in the absolute top coaches in the Nation, pay to keep them, support what they need, and we'll win games. We don't have to be at the top NIL-wise, but coaching is everything in college football.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Consequences of selling your soul

Yep. The literary term is a "Faustian bargain" I think. I still believe that if Geoff would just tone down the antics and concentrate on what he does best...getting the defense ready to play lights out, he just might pull this thing out. IIWII

 

[forensicbuzz]

Yep. The literary term is a "Faustian bargain" I think. I still believe that if Geoff would just tone down the antics and concentrate on what he does best...getting the defense ready to play lights out, he just might pull this thing out. IIWII

I think CGC has "toned down the antics." Most are associating this with a Come-to-Jesus meeting with his boss, but I wonder if maybe his OC didn't pull him aside and kind of have a one-on-one discussion about perception. They seem to have very different approaches.

 

[Pointer]

it’s irrelevant to the conversation about essential traits we need for our next coach is my point that i’m making. collins being a bad coach doesn’t mean we should just give up and punt on recruiting and “not do what the factories are doing” (again people if you want the option just say that. stop acting like it’s not what you mean) like the other user was suggesting.

too many people are using “collins is a recruiter and look how this team turned out!” as a legitimate argument and it’s pretty ridiculous. all collins failure has done is show he is not a good coach, not that we should bring in a “scheme” guy and give up on having good recruits

Collins really hasn't recruited that well. Honestly it's nothing amazing. When you factor in how many guys from that class you keep bringing up left, it becomes even less impressive. Then looking at this past recruiting cycle, I don't even understand what Collins is bringing to the table anymore.

I will give him props for getting a couple of 4 start DT's though. That was good.

I would love to have someone who can scheme and recruit, but again recruiting is much more to do with the school (bagmen) then the coach (not all, but mostly to do with this).

I'm with you 1000% I want good recruiting and scheming, but one of those things is much more determined by the coach than the other. Again look no further than the NIL era to prove this point.

 

[Pointer]

My question is why couldn't CPJ get those recruits? In 2007, with the same resources, Gailey had the best recruiting class in the history of Tech. Johnson used those players to have 2 very successful seasons, which you would think would helpout with recruiting, yet the recruiting dipped. It wasn't that Johnson didn't have resources, it's that it wasn't a big part of the program for him. The guys that he knew were gonna play and execute his offense 9/10 weren't gonna be the guys who were recruited by the Floridas or Auburns or even Wisconsins of CFB. Saying that if we give more resources to a CPJ like coach, it'll boost recruiting glances over the fact that higher tier players go where they feel like they can develop and go pro and that wasn't part of Johnsons scheme.

That Chan class was an outlier, don't act like those were coming in like that every year.

Even then, at the time it was not an extremely highly rated class. There were just allot of underrated players there (good on CCG for getting them)

But don't make it sound like Tech was pulling in elite classes left and right.

 

[GTThor]

I could see someone like Brian Bohannon,Jeff Monken or Ken Niumatalolo guiding the football team in 2023.

Rumor is that at least 2 of them wanted the job when Paul Johnson left.

 

[bobongo]

Collins really hasn't recruited that well. Honestly it's nothing amazing.

I take the view that Collins is a good recruiter who has been hampered by his poor coaching. I wonder how well this staff would be recruiting right now if we'd averaged 7 or 8 wins a year instead of the three.

 

[bobongo]

Yep. The literary term is a "Faustian bargain" I think. I still believe that if Geoff would just tone down the antics and concentrate on what he does best...getting the defense ready to play lights out, he just might pull this thing out. IIWII

I imagine Thacker is still here because Collins needs an assistant to carry out his strategy and most of his tactics, allowing him to concentrate on being HC on game day. Hopefully it will be Geoff preparing the defense and running the show every day but Saturdays. And hopefully he's up to the task. He's done pretty well elsewhere as DC.

 

[Tennessee GT Fan]

I take the view that Collins is a good recruiter who has been hampered by his poor coaching. I wonder how well this staff would be recruiting right now if we'd averaged 7 or 8 wins a year instead of the three.

His own lack of head coaching ability is a major problem in my humble opinion

 

[orientalnc]

I am thinking that we will know what we have after 3-4 games. If we are playing competitive football against Clemson and Mississippi (in spite of the score) we will probably be OK and Collins could stay another year. I keep vacillating around 5 wins, but 5 Ws and competitive losses is likely going to make a difficult decision.

 

[Tennessee GT Fan]

I am thinking that we will know what we have after 3-4 games. If we are playing competitive football against Clemson and Mississippi (in spite of the score) we will probably be OK and Collins could stay another year. I keep vacillating around 5 wins, but 5 Ws and competitive losses is likely going to make a difficult decision.

I can't see this team winning more than 3 games at their very best.

 

[JacketFan137]

I am thinking that we will know what we have after 3-4 games. If we are playing competitive football against Clemson and Mississippi (in spite of the score) we will probably be OK and Collins could stay another year. I keep vacillating around 5 wins, but 5 Ws and competitive losses is likely going to make a difficult decision.

i think 5 ws and a competitive showing against clemson and ole miss will make it a 50/50 where we truly evaluate what’s out there and make a decision.

 

[Blue&Gold1034]

That Chan class was an outlier, don't act like those were coming in like that every year.

Even then, at the time it was not an extremely highly rated class. There were just allot of underrated players there (good on CCG for getting them)

But don't make it sound like Tech was pulling in elite classes left and right.

You're right, it was an outlier. But look at it in terms of his coaching record. That class came off of CCGs most successful season going 9-4, meaning that recruits were taking notice of what was believe to be a program on the rise. If he had maintained the success, going to a winning a ACC championship and going to a BCS Bowl, his subsequent classes would've stayed in the top 15-25.

Im assuming your idea of extremely highly rated is top 5 or 10, so by that measure it was not a highly rated class. But given what we all know about Tech in regards to the administration and the fan bases support, that class was highly rated. 8 four star players in one class at Tech is nothing to glance over.

I never said they were. I said that Tech showed the potential to get top 25 classes with the resources at hand.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Collins really hasn't recruited that well. Honestly it's nothing amazing. When you factor in how many guys from that class you keep bringing up left, it becomes even less impressive. Then looking at this past recruiting cycle, I don't even understand what Collins is bringing to the table anymore.

I will give him props for getting a couple of 4 start DT's though. That was good.

I would love to have someone who can scheme and recruit, but again recruiting is much more to do with the school (bagmen) then the coach (not all, but mostly to do with this).

I'm with you 1000% I want good recruiting and scheming, but one of those things is much more determined by the coach than the other. Again look no further than the NIL era to prove this point.

Lol there is no need to lie

 

[Ibeeballin]

I can't see this team winning more than 3 games at their very best.

Based on what?

 

[Tennessee GT Fan]

Based on what?

Based on my opinion that the defense will probably be poor and the offense could be about as poor. At this point i think GT beats Western Carolina and Duke and that's it for 2022.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Based on my opinion that the defense will probably be poor and the offense could be about as poor. At this point i think GT beats Western Carolina and Duke and that's it for 2022.

So opponents won’t be poor next season?