Here's a thought

[JacketFan137]

I think you will find that you need talent, scheme, facilities and a supportive community to win. That's not just true for football, it's pretty much true for running organizations in general.

So you wannabe Top 25? Translate that into wins son ... and plan on that. I think you will find that means winning 8-9 games a year. And here's a newsflash. Tech legend Kim King came to that conclusion 20 years ago. Try to keep up.

i really don’t see what point you’re trying to make other than disparage others bringing forth a pretty reasonable expectation that is recruiting good classes rather than just settling for less.

i know we have to win more to consistently be there. collins proved its possible to bring in that class but his inability to win and do something with it made some of the players leave as well as making it tougher to follow up with something similar. so ideally we bring in a good recruiter and surround him with good coordinators so our x’s and o’s are just as good as our players and vice versa. the reality is the option coaches people suggest are highly unlikely to do that as they are not standout recruiters by any measure. aside from personal feelings about the option and disdain for collins there is really no sensible explanation to revert back based on the candidates that are out there

 

[Vespidae]

i really don’t see what point you’re trying to make other than disparage others bringing forth a pretty reasonable expectation that is recruiting good classes rather than just settling for less.

i know we have to win more to consistently be there. collins proved its possible to bring in that class but his inability to win and do something with it made some of the players leave as well as making it tougher to follow up with something similar. so ideally we bring in a good recruiter and surround him with good coordinators so our x’s and o’s are just as good as our players and vice versa. the reality is the option coaches people suggest are highly unlikely to do that as they are not standout recruiters by any measure. aside from personal feelings about the option and disdain for collins there is really no sensible explanation to revert back based on the candidates that are out there

Well, we call that a "constraint". If you spend $X on recruiting and are unable to a) win or b) keep them (before they transfer), then DID YOU WIN? No.

This happens all the time in business.

So, how does Tech WIN given that ... we don't have the resources to win at scale and/or keep them.

Answer that, and we are well on our way to a solution. I admire programs that have successfully built 7-8 win a year programs and are doing so profitability. I want to play Moneyball ... not "let's just spend until we catch the factories." That's not going to happen. And in my 40+ years with Tech, it never has.

 

[RamblinRed]

The primary entrance into Tier 1 will be spending by the university AA (not NIL). After that #2 is likely to be eyeballs (how many people watch the games your team plays in). Performance on the field is a distant #3.
In order to play in a P5 conference you have to commit to a certain amount of spending (I don't know what that exact level is currently but I know there is a floor you have to be able to spend at). To be a G5 schools you have to commit to a certain amount of funding. The tiers will be the same thing. But the Tier 1 schools are going to largely be schools that spend alot of money in their AA.

Wake could win double digit games every year and it would still have 0 chance at ending up in Tier 1 because it would never be able to reach the funding and eyeball levels it will take.

I also would not assume all the SEC and B10 teams will be in Tier 1 - the OSU AD basically implied that would not be the case. Though a majority will because they spend the money.

I expect there will be a floor that a school would have to commit spending at in order to be in Tier 1 and I expect that value to be quite high.

 

[JacketFan137]

Well, we call that a "constraint". If you spend $X on recruiting and are unable to a) win or b) keep them (before they transfer), then DID YOU WIN? No.

This happens all the time in business.

So, how does Tech WIN given that ... we don't have the resources to win at scale and/or keep them.

Answer that, and we are well on our way to a solution. I admire programs that have successfully built 7-8 win a year programs and are doing so profitability. I want to play Moneyball ... not "let's just spend until we catch the factories." That's not going to happen. And in my 40+ years with Tech, it never has.

again, collins being a bad coach isn’t really relevant to the broader discussion we are making an effort to explain to you.

we have to be able to recruit. i really don’t know how else to explain this. we were getting bullied by clemson under johnson for years and uga was pulling away too after kirby’s first year. there is no way the team is gonna compete unless the coach is bringing in good athletes similar to coach collins class in 2020 he also has to be a better coach than collins on game day. collins brought in a class that high and according to many of y’all he is the worst coach ever. why is it so impossible to say that we hire someone that can do better on gameday and recruit well?

you have said effectively nothing but keep harping on collins being bad. this is pretty bad process and seems more slanted to you just wanting the option, not the program to compete at a level we can compete at

 

[Tennessee GT Fan]

What impact do you think it would have had on the Georgia Tech football program if Atlanta hadn't been awarded the Falcons franchise on June 30th 1965?

 

[Richard7125]

The primary entrance into Tier 1 will be spending by the university AA (not NIL). After that #2 is likely to be eyeballs (how many people watch the games your team plays in). Performance on the field is a distant #3.
In order to play in a P5 conference you have to commit to a certain amount of spending (I don't know what that exact level is currently but I know there is a floor you have to be able to spend at). To be a G5 schools you have to commit to a certain amount of funding. The tiers will be the same thing. But the Tier 1 schools are going to largely be schools that spend alot of money in their AA.

Wake could win double digit games every year and it would still have 0 chance at ending up in Tier 1 because it would never be able to reach the funding and eyeball levels it will take.

I also would not assume all the SEC and B10 teams will be in Tier 1 - the OSU AD basically implied that would not be the case. Though a majority will because they spend the money.

I expect there will be a floor that a school would have to commit spending at in order to be in Tier 1 and I expect that value to be quite high.

I'm reading everybody's comments, but i'm struggling to understand what people think the objective to having a super conference would be. It seems like many of the arguments are to create parity, but i can guarantee you that's the last thing Alabama, UGA, et al want. They don't want parity. The only thing that would get them to support a super conference is if they can make 2x to 3x what they would make over the status quo.

 

[WreckinGT]

again, collins being a bad coach isn’t really relevant to the broader discussion we are making an effort to explain to you.

we have to be able to recruit. i really don’t know how else to explain this. we were getting bullied by clemson under johnson for years and uga was pulling away too after kirby’s first year. there is no way the team is gonna compete unless the coach is bringing in good athletes similar to coach collins class in 2020 he also has to be a better coach than collins on game day. collins brought in a class that high and according to many of y’all he is the worst coach ever. why is it so impossible to say that we hire someone that can do better on gameday and recruit well?

you have said effectively nothing but keep harping on collins being bad. this is pretty bad process and seems more slanted to you just wanting the option, not the program to compete at a level we can compete at

You are overblowing the 2020 class. It finished 27th with 4 four stars. Consistent classes at that level are not going to get us close to Clemson or UGA even if we have one of the best gameday coaches in the country. We need them to come back down to earth a bit. Hopefully last year was the start of a trend for Clemson. I doubt it though.

 

[JacketFan137]

You are overblowing the 2020 class. It finished 27th with 4 four stars. Consistent classes at that level are not going to get us close to Clemson or UGA even if we have one of the best gameday coaches in the country. We need them to come back down to earth a bit. Hopefully last year was the start of a trend for Clemson. I doubt it though.

classes in that range will likely have a guy that can break through into stardom. that’s ultimately what it’ll take vs those teams. have to have one gamebreaking player a la justin thomas, bebe thomas, gibbs etc. chances of us getting one is way higher if we recruit in that range. that range is much closer and a significant difference from the 40s and 50s.

this is also where some schools that have had some promising seasons recruit. baylor is a good example.

at the end of the day recruiting is just as important a part of coaching as x’s and o’s. if we’re gonna settle for a guy that can’t recruit but has a “scheme” we’ll be in the same spot

and either way if that class from 20 is not good enough, then what would you call the classes in the 50s/60s and possibly worse that one of the option coaches suggested would be bringing bring in?

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I'm reading everybody's comments, but i'm struggling to understand what people think the objective to having a super conference would be. It seems like many of the arguments are to create parity, but i can guarantee you that's the last thing Alabama, UGA, et al want. They don't want parity. The only thing that would get them to support a super conference is if they can make 2x to 3x what they would make over the status quo.

Parity isn’t a goal of the schools or the new alignment. It will be a by product which I will enjoy watching. It’s like NIL exposing the man behind the curtain of the NCAA. It wasn’t the intent but the by product has been de-nutting the NCAA, which I’m all for.

The goal is simple - more money. How? TV contracts as crazy as they are now will be even crazier when their proposed inventory of games will be matchups of big time school vs. big time school every week. Thursday night ESPN - Penn State vs, Miami, Saturday noon - UGA vs. FSU, 3:30- Bama vs. Michigan, 8pm - USC vs. Ohio State. Repeat every week for 3 months.

The days of UGA playing Georgia Southern or Georgia Tech will be over. No one watches those games and no one cares because the outcome is known before kickoff. No more will Bama have a 2 game season or Ohio State paying Akron a million to come to Columbus to lose by 60. Right now 80% of the TV contracts inventory are garbage games. Who nationally will watch a 3-5 GT play a 4-4 VT?

The outcome of matching like minded schools in tier 1 and tier 2 will naturally create parity because the schools are similarly situated. It will be Coastal chaos every where which is fun and keeps the fanbases engaged thru November and into the upcoming playoff systems. Think about us. As bad as we are we still had mathematical hopes of a Coastal Title because all th e teams are similarly situated. The Atlantic has been boring b3cause it’s Clemson and the dwarfs until Dabo had no QB last year.

But to your point - it’s all about the money guys buying the top tier with even more money.

 

[Tennessee GT Fan]

Parity isn’t a goal of the schools or the new alignment. It will be a by product which I will enjoy watching. It’s like NIL exposing the man behind the curtain of the NCAA. It wasn’t the intent but the by product has been de-nutting the NCAA, which I’m all for.

The goal is simple - more money. How? TV contracts as crazy as they are now will be even crazier when their proposed inventory of games will be matchups of big time school vs. big time school every week. Thursday night ESPN - Penn State vs, Miami, Saturday noon - UGA vs. FSU, 3:30- Bama vs. Michigan, 8pm - USC vs. Ohio State. Repeat every week for 3 months.

The days of UGA playing Georgia Southern or Georgia Tech will be over. No one watches those games and no one cares because the outcome is known before kickoff. No more will Bama have a 2 game season or Ohio State paying Akron a million to come to Columbus to lose by 60. Right now 80% of the TV contracts inventory are garbage games. Who nationally will watch a 3-5 GT play a 4-4 VT?

The outcome of matching like minded schools in tier 1 and tier 2 will naturally create parity because the schools are similarly situated. It will be Coastal chaos every where which is fun and keeps the fanbases engaged thru November and into the upcoming playoff systems. Think about us. As bad as we are we still had mathematical hopes of a Coastal Title because all th e teams are similarly situated. The Atlantic has been boring b3cause it’s Clemson and the dwarfs until Dabo had no QB last year.

But to your point - it’s all about the money guys buying the top tier with even more money.

Yeah i have a feeling that the Georgia Tech-Georgia series will probably be ended in the not too distant future

 

[Vespidae]

I'm reading everybody's comments, but i'm struggling to understand what people think the objective to having a super conference would be. It seems like many of the arguments are to create parity, but i can guarantee you that's the last thing Alabama, UGA, et al want. They don't want parity. The only thing that would get them to support a super conference is if they can make 2x to 3x what they would make over the status quo.

The objective of a super conference is to create matchups that will generate an average TV rating of 7.7 or higher. Do that 5-6 times a year (doesn't have to be every week) and monetize that by comparing to the NFL contract for similar product. As I recall, that's going to be about $30 billion. With a B.

 

[WreckinGT]

Yeah i have a feeling that the Georgia Tech-Georgia series will probably be ended in the not too distant future

If the proposed tiers ever came to pass (they won't) then we will lose many rivalries. This would apply to all sports as well. Those who think we could possibly do this for just one sport are kidding themselves.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

again, collins being a bad coach isn’t really relevant to the broader discussion we are making an effort to explain to you.

we have to be able to recruit. i really don’t know how else to explain this. we were getting bullied by clemson under johnson for years and uga was pulling away too after kirby’s first year. there is no way the team is gonna compete unless the coach is bringing in good athletes similar to coach collins class in 2020 he also has to be a better coach than collins on game day. collins brought in a class that high and according to many of y’all he is the worst coach ever. why is it so impossible to say that we hire someone that can do better on gameday and recruit well?

you have said effectively nothing but keep harping on collins being bad. this is pretty bad process and seems more slanted to you just wanting the option, not the program to compete at a level we can compete at

"...again, Collins being a bad coach..." Nothing else is more relevant. This program is looking at a possible lost decade with negative repercussions long after he is gone. Not that he is worried with millions already banked. IIWII

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

If the proposed tiers ever came to pass (they won't) then we will lose many rivalries. This would apply to all sports as well. Those who think we could possibly do this for just one sport are kidding themselves.

Those who think football is the same animal as every other sport are kidding themselves.

 

[WreckinGT]

classes in that range will likely have a guy that can break through into stardom. that’s ultimately what it’ll take vs those teams. have to have one gamebreaking player a la justin thomas, bebe thomas, gibbs etc. chances of us getting one is way higher if we recruit in that range. that range is much closer and a significant difference from the 40s and 50s.

this is also where some schools that have had some promising seasons recruit. baylor is a good example.

at the end of the day recruiting is just as important a part of coaching as x’s and o’s. if we’re gonna settle for a guy that can’t recruit but has a “scheme” we’ll be in the same spot

and either way if that class from 20 is not good enough, then what would you call the classes in the 50s/60s and possibly worse that one of the option coaches suggested would be bringing bring in?

Im not trying to say recruiting isn't important, it obviously is, I just don't like the use of Clemson and UGA as barometers. These are National Championship caliber teams most recent years. CPJ didn't stop competing with them because his talent fell, he stopped competing with them because they became juggernauts. I honestly don't think there is a coach in college football who could come to GT and make us competitive with those teams in their current state. The only person who might be able to is Elon Musk. Let's work on making him a big Tech fan. Then we have a chance.

 

[JacketFan137]

"...again, Collins being a bad coach..." Nothing else is more relevant. This program is looking at a possible lost decade with negative repercussions long after he is gone. Not that he is worried with millions already banked. IIWII

it’s irrelevant to the conversation about essential traits we need for our next coach is my point that i’m making. collins being a bad coach doesn’t mean we should just give up and punt on recruiting and “not do what the factories are doing” (again people if you want the option just say that. stop acting like it’s not what you mean) like the other user was suggesting.

too many people are using “collins is a recruiter and look how this team turned out!” as a legitimate argument and it’s pretty ridiculous. all collins failure has done is show he is not a good coach, not that we should bring in a “scheme” guy and give up on having good recruits

 

[WreckinGT]

Those who think football is the same animal as every other sport are kidding themselves.

So you think the Tier 2 teams will all let the Tier 1 teams take all of the big money from college football, which they will funnel into other sports and will continue to play those teams like nothing changed?

 

[JacketFan137]

Im not trying to say recruiting isn't important, it obviously is, I just don't like the use of Clemson and UGA as barometers. These are National Championship caliber teams most recent years. CPJ didn't stop competing with them because his talent fell, he stopped competing with them because they became juggernauts. I honestly don't think there is a coach in college football who could come to GT and make us competitive with those teams in their current state. The only person who might be able to is Elon Musk. Let's work on making him a big Tech fan. Then we have a chance.

we have them on our schedule every year for the next decade+. i’m not saying we need to be going game for game with them and splitting the series but if they are on our schedule this frequent and we’re giving up competing with them it’s time to drop to the sun belt and drop the uga game.

until then the goal should be doing whatever we can to close the gap in some way. our only path to that is a recruiter that can achieve what collins did in 2020 AND coach the team and develop them. hiring a “scheme coach” that can’t recruit isn’t gonna get us any closer

 

[WreckinGT]

we have them on our schedule every year for the next decade+. i’m not saying we need to be going game for game with them and splitting the series but if they are on our schedule this frequent and we’re giving up competing with them it’s time to drop to the sun belt and drop the uga game.

until then the goal should be doing whatever we can to close the gap in some way. our only path to that is a recruiter that can achieve what collins did in 2020 AND coach the team and develop them. hiring a “scheme coach” that can’t recruit isn’t gonna get us any closer

I guess my point is, there is no path. You celebrate the 2020 class, which you should. We had four 4+ star recruits. Clemson had 17. UGA had 19. That path is going nowhere. We will need a really good coach who can recruit in the top 10-15 consistently at Georgia Tech. A coach that likely doesn't exist. That doesn't mean we give up. Maybe we get lucky every once in a while like we almost did last year against Clemson. But realistically we are going to lose to to both nearly every year no matter how much we improve and its usually going to be by a good margin. Having two of the top 5 programs in the country on our yearly schedule is rough. It doesn't mean we have to drop to the Sun Belt but we are playing a 10 game schedule for the most part.

 

[CEB]

it’s irrelevant to the conversation about essential traits we need for our next coach is my point that i’m making. collins being a bad coach doesn’t mean we should just give up and punt on recruiting and “not do what the factories are doing” (again people if you want the option just say that. stop acting like it’s not what you mean) like the other user was suggesting.

too many people are using “collins is a recruiter and look how this team turned out!” as a legitimate argument and it’s pretty ridiculous. all collins failure has done is show he is not a good coach, not that we should bring in a “scheme” guy and give up on having good recruits

You got it man! That’s exactly what everyone else is saying. We have to recruit in the top 10 or we have to run the option. There is no middle ground.