Here's a thought

yeti92

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it’s irrelevant to the conversation about essential traits we need for our next coach is my point that i’m making. collins being a bad coach doesn’t mean we should just give up and punt on recruiting and “not do what the factories are doing” (again people if you want the option just say that. stop acting like it’s not what you mean) like the other user was suggesting.



too many people are using “collins is a recruiter and look how this team turned out!” as a legitimate argument and it’s pretty ridiculous. all collins failure has done is show he is not a good coach, not that we should bring in a “scheme” guy and give up on having good recruits

it's irrelevant to the conversation about essential traits we need for our next coach is my point that i’m making. cpj not being given adequate resources to be more successful at recruiting doesn’t mean we should just give up and punt on running a unique scheme and “do what the factories are doing” (again people if you think we can outrecruit the factories just say that. stop acting like it’s not what you mean) like the other user was suggesting.

too many people are using “cpj is an option guy and my ugag friends tell me that's a gimmick and not a real offense and it makes me feel bad” as a legitimate argument and it’s pretty ridiculous. all cpj's mediocre recruiting has done is show he was not given adequate support and resources to recruit, not that we should bring in a “recruiter” and give up on having good coaching and a unique scheme that requires extra preparation and discipline from our opponents.
 

JacketFan137

Banned
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2,536
it's irrelevant to the conversation about essential traits we need for our next coach is my point that i’m making. cpj not being given adequate resources to be more successful at recruiting doesn’t mean we should just give up and punt on running a unique scheme and “do what the factories are doing” (again people if you think we can outrecruit the factories just say that. stop acting like it’s not what you mean) like the other user was suggesting.

too many people are using “cpj is an option guy and my ugag friends tell me that's a gimmick and not a real offense and it makes me feel bad” as a legitimate argument and it’s pretty ridiculous. all cpj's mediocre recruiting has done is show he was not given adequate support and resources to recruit, not that we should bring in a “recruiter” and give up on having good coaching and a unique scheme that requires extra preparation and discipline from our opponents.
lol just ignore the vast majority of what i was saying to lay on a sarcasm heavy rebuttal. if you don’t know enough about what’s going on to engage in the conversation it might be better to just sit it out ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

thank god the ignore button exists
 

SOWEGA Jacket

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So you think the Tier 2 teams will all let the Tier 1 teams take all of the big money from college football, which they will funnel into other sports and will continue to play those teams like nothing changed?
Yes. We are doing it right now with ND. They have the big money TV contract for football yet we are not only allowing them to play all other sports under our banner but we begged them to do it. So there you go. Are you going to lead a boycott of ND since they use that NBC to upgrade hoops, baseball, and volleyball facilities?
 

Tennessee GT Fan

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Yes. We are doing it right now with ND. They have the big money TV contract for football yet we are not only allowing them to play all other sports under our banner but we begged them to do it. So there you go. Are you going to lead a boycott of ND since they use that NBC to upgrade hoops, baseball, and volleyball facilities?
When and if the Tier System ever happens the ACC will be back to the level they were in the 1960s-1970s.
 

WreckinGT

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Yes. We are doing it right now with ND. They have the big money TV contract for football yet we are not only allowing them to play all other sports under our banner but we begged them to do it. So there you go. Are you going to lead a boycott of ND since they use that NBC to upgrade hoops, baseball, and volleyball facilities?
ND makes less money as an independent.
We know Notre Dame makes less money as an independent than it would as a conference member. Its NBC contract pays about $15 million per year. The ACC gave Notre Dame $10.8 million in 2019-20, according to the conference’s tax filings. That’s $26 million, which is $6 million shy of the $32.3 million average payout to the ACC’s 14 full-time members.
 

RamblinRed

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I've always thought the best path for GT has been something similar to WI. Now note they spend alot more money than we do, but in terms of their football program and how it is run I think it makes alot of sense.

They generally recruit between #25-40 most years. That is a good start.
Then they have a program that they know what they want to do and they stick to it. Our program doesn't have to be the same as theirs -i'd probably argue against it for GT. But you have to know what you want to be on the field and get everyone on that same page.
Then you have to develop the young men you bring in whether they are from HS or the portal. And develop them so they fit your program.
Finally you have to prepare well in the week leading up to the game and during the game itself.

You have to do all of those things well to succeed and not one is much more important than any other.

Realistically GT can pull 4-5 4* in a good year. GT is never going to pull double digit 4* and has never come close.

CGC has improved recruiting somewhat but let's not overstate it. His best class was a borderline Top 25 class and none of his others have come close to that. That's closer to the ceiling than the floor.

In those 4 areas we haven't really excelled at any of them.
In terms of recruiting i'd give the current program a B.
In terms of establishing what the program looks like, what they want it to be known for, i'd probably give it a D. I just don't feel like I know what Collins wants to do with the program other than recruit well.
In terms of player development i'd also say a D. Haven't really seen very many players develop yet (part of why we are so heavy in the portal). The question you have to ask here is if you believe players that have come in from HS have not been developed well, what makes you think the players coming in from the portal will be developed any better. This is something i'm hoping all the coaching changes will help improve.
In terms of game prep and coaching i'd probably give an F. We have look unprepared on the field and we don't seem to adjust well as the games progress.
 

CheCha54

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
94
We will keep Coach Collins as long as economics support him and his program. In the first three years you get somewhat of a pass as an investment for the future. In the 4th year the return on that investment should begin. In the 4th year the program should be established and producing expected results.
 

Tennessee GT Fan

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We will keep Coach Collins as long as economics support him and his program. In the first three years you get somewhat of a pass as an investment for the future. In the 4th year the return on that investment should begin. In the 4th year the program should be established and producing expected results.
I can't see Coach Collins being around in 2023 if GT goes 2-10 this coming season
 

Sheboygan

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I've always thought the best path for GT has been something similar to WI. Now note they spend alot more money than we do, but in terms of their football program and how it is run I think it makes alot of sense.

They generally recruit between #25-40 most years. That is a good start.
Then they have a program that they know what they want to do and they stick to it. Our program doesn't have to be the same as theirs -i'd probably argue against it for GT. But you have to know what you want to be on the field and get everyone on that same page.
Then you have to develop the young men you bring in whether they are from HS or the portal. And develop them so they fit your program.
Finally you have to prepare well in the week leading up to the game and during the game itself.

You have to do all of those things well to succeed and not one is much more important than any other.

Realistically GT can pull 4-5 4* in a good year. GT is never going to pull double digit 4* and has never come close.

CGC has improved recruiting somewhat but let's not overstate it. His best class was a borderline Top 25 class and none of his others have come close to that. That's closer to the ceiling than the floor.

In those 4 areas we haven't really excelled at any of them.
In terms of recruiting i'd give the current program a B.
In terms of establishing what the program looks like, what they want it to be known for, i'd probably give it a D. I just don't feel like I know what Collins wants to do with the program other than recruit well.
In terms of player development i'd also say a D. Haven't really seen very many players develop yet (part of why we are so heavy in the portal). The question you have to ask here is if you believe players that have come in from HS have not been developed well, what makes you think the players coming in from the portal will be developed any better. This is something i'm hoping all the coaching changes will help improve.
In terms of game prep and coaching i'd probably give an F. We have look unprepared on the field and we don't seem to adjust well as the games progress.
 

Sheboygan

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AMEN and HALLELUAH !! I having been saying this for a while. In the 70-80s UW was a DUMPSTER FIRE. Donna Shalala was the President of UW ( first woman in the Big 10). As far as athletics, she made made one critical hire- Pat Richter as AD. Richter made 3 critical hires 1) Alvarez as football HC ( he was an assistant at Nebraska at the time). 2) **** Bennett as BB HC , then 3) Bo Ryan as BB HC.
Interestingly enough, Richter was a UW grad that also had a pro career. But at the time of his being named AD at UW he was VP of PERSONELL.
In other words, he knew how to evaluate people. IMO, this is sorely lacking in our current AD.
 

Blue&Gold1034

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
101
it's irrelevant to the conversation about essential traits we need for our next coach is my point that i’m making. cpj not being given adequate resources to be more successful at recruiting doesn’t mean we should just give up and punt on running a unique scheme and “do what the factories are doing” (again people if you think we can outrecruit the factories just say that. stop acting like it’s not what you mean) like the other user was suggesting.

too many people are using “cpj is an option guy and my ugag friends tell me that's a gimmick and not a real offense and it makes me feel bad” as a legitimate argument and it’s pretty ridiculous. all cpj's mediocre recruiting has done is show he was not given adequate support and resources to recruit, not that we should bring in a “recruiter” and give up on having good coaching and a unique scheme that requires extra preparation and discipline from our opponents.
My question is why couldn't CPJ get those recruits? In 2007, with the same resources, Gailey had the best recruiting class in the history of Tech. Johnson used those players to have 2 very successful seasons, which you would think would helpout with recruiting, yet the recruiting dipped. It wasn't that Johnson didn't have resources, it's that it wasn't a big part of the program for him. The guys that he knew were gonna play and execute his offense 9/10 weren't gonna be the guys who were recruited by the Floridas or Auburns or even Wisconsins of CFB. Saying that if we give more resources to a CPJ like coach, it'll boost recruiting glances over the fact that higher tier players go where they feel like they can develop and go pro and that wasn't part of Johnsons scheme.
 

JacketFan137

Banned
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2,536
My question is why couldn't CPJ get those recruits? In 2007, with the same resources, Gailey had the best recruiting class in the history of Tech. Johnson used those players to have 2 very successful seasons, which you would think would helpout with recruiting, yet the recruiting dipped. It wasn't that Johnson didn't have resources, it's that it wasn't a big part of the program for him. The guys that he knew were gonna play and execute his offense 9/10 weren't gonna be the guys who were recruited by the Floridas or Auburns or even Wisconsins of CFB. Saying that if we give more resources to a CPJ like coach, it'll boost recruiting glances over the fact that higher tier players go where they feel like they can develop and go pro and that wasn't part of Johnsons scheme.
johnson also did not want to recruit as hard as other teams too. i know some people involved with different high school programs and there were guys that wanted to go to tech that were rated high enough but johnson just didn’t match the same amount of recruiting fervor that some other coaches did. johnson just wasn’t that kinda guy. which to his credit he was still successful and got some great athletes, but i think people don’t want to admit he was a sub par recruiter
 

yeti92

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2,627
My question is why couldn't CPJ get those recruits? In 2007, with the same resources, Gailey had the best recruiting class in the history of Tech. Johnson used those players to have 2 very successful seasons, which you would think would helpout with recruiting, yet the recruiting dipped. It wasn't that Johnson didn't have resources, it's that it wasn't a big part of the program for him. The guys that he knew were gonna play and execute his offense 9/10 weren't gonna be the guys who were recruited by the Floridas or Auburns or even Wisconsins of CFB. Saying that if we give more resources to a CPJ like coach, it'll boost recruiting glances over the fact that higher tier players go where they feel like they can develop and go pro and that wasn't part of Johnsons scheme.
So the 2010 recruiting class had the highest average recruit ranking of any class we have had since the 2007 class. That includes all of CGC's signing classes. You can look this up on Rivals and verify for yourself if you'd like. So he did build off the 2008 and 2009 seasons and was able to recruit fairly successfully. However the 2010 season's relatively poor results followed and brought recruiting down for 2011. But his classes bounced around - 2010 as I mentioned was the high point: 26th nationally for average recruit ranking, 5th in conference. 2012, 2014, 2015 and 2017 all rated around 34th nationally. Other classes were in the low to mid 40s, with the exception of 2013 and 2015 which were both low 50s and followed mediocre to horrible seasons. CGC's classes have ranked right around 31 nationally for comparison, basically on par with about half of CPJ's classes.

I agree with you that it wasn't a big part of the program for him - he was not a particularly avid recruiter to begin with, and the fact that lots of people said he couldn't get those players and couldn't win at this level I think led him to give his doubters the proverbial finger and say screw you I'll do it with the guys that fit what I need and I can easily get - frees up a little more time for golf. This is definitely one of his bigger weaknesses, and one our ADs should have addressed by hiring more/better support staff while everyone else was opening up their pocketbooks to try and be competitive - can you imagine someone like CGC out there recruiting for CPJ? We would have been destroying everyone we played. Instead we got Bobinski who wanted to fire him and did nothing to help that he didn't have to, leaving Tech lagging majorly behind our competitors and leaving recruiting as a notable issue.

This past off season tStan has moved to address some of the weaknesses of CGC, which seem to be primarily in the coaching department. The same was not done for CPJ.
 
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UgaBlows

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6,401
I've always thought the best path for GT has been something similar to WI. Now note they spend alot more money than we do, but in terms of their football program and how it is run I think it makes alot of sense.

They generally recruit between #25-40 most years. That is a good start.
Then they have a program that they know what they want to do and they stick to it. Our program doesn't have to be the same as theirs -i'd probably argue against it for GT. But you have to know what you want to be on the field and get everyone on that same page.
Then you have to develop the young men you bring in whether they are from HS or the portal. And develop them so they fit your program.
Finally you have to prepare well in the week leading up to the game and during the game itself.

You have to do all of those things well to succeed and not one is much more important than any other.

Realistically GT can pull 4-5 4* in a good year. GT is never going to pull double digit 4* and has never come close.

CGC has improved recruiting somewhat but let's not overstate it. His best class was a borderline Top 25 class and none of his others have come close to that. That's closer to the ceiling than the floor.

In those 4 areas we haven't really excelled at any of them.
In terms of recruiting i'd give the current program a B.
In terms of establishing what the program looks like, what they want it to be known for, i'd probably give it a D. I just don't feel like I know what Collins wants to do with the program other than recruit well.
In terms of player development i'd also say a D. Haven't really seen very many players develop yet (part of why we are so heavy in the portal). The question you have to ask here is if you believe players that have come in from HS have not been developed well, what makes you think the players coming in from the portal will be developed any better. This is something i'm hoping all the coaching changes will help improve.
In terms of game prep and coaching i'd probably give an F. We have look unprepared on the field and we don't seem to adjust well as the games progress.
Collin’s recruiting would improve dramatically if he could prove that he can win. I don’t believe for a second that 4-5 4star recruits is our ceiling at GT
 

takethepoints

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So the 2010 recruiting class had the highest average recruit ranking of any class we have had since the 2007 class. That includes all of CGC's signing classes. You can look this up on Rivals and verify for yourself if you'd like. So he did build off the 2008 and 2009 seasons and was able to recruit fairly successfully. However the 2010 season's relatively poor results followed and brought recruiting down for 2011. But his classes bounced around - 2010 as I mentioned was the high point: 26th nationally for average recruit ranking, 5th in conference. 2012, 2014, 2015 and 2017 all rated around 34th nationally. Other classes were in the low to mid 40s, with the exception of 2013 and 2015 which were both low 50s and followed mediocre to horrible seasons. CGC's classes have ranked right around 31 nationally for comparison, basically on par with about half of CPJ's classes.

I agree with you that it wasn't a big part of the program for him - he was not a particularly avid recruiter to begin with, and the fact that lots of people said he couldn't get those players and couldn't win at this level I think led him to give his doubters the proverbial finger and say screw you I'll do it with the guys that fit what I need and I can easily get - frees up a little more time for golf. This is definitely one of his bigger weaknesses, and one our ADs should have addressed by hiring more/better support staff while everyone else was opening up their pocketbooks to try and be competitive - can you imagine someone like CGC out there recruiting for CPJ? We would have been destroying everyone we played. Instead we got Bobinski who wanted to fire him and did nothing to help that he didn't have to, leaving Tech lagging majorly behind our competitors and leaving recruiting as a notable issue.

This past off season tStan has moved to address some of the weaknesses of CGC, which seem to be primarily in the coaching department. The same was not done for CPJ.
Yes to this and the comparison with Wisconsin. Having an AD who wasn't going to support your program doesn't help one bit. I've never understood hiring him.

And, actually, I think Paul put in a good effort in recruiting. The main thing with him, however, was to concentrate on the players that a) could help run the schemes on O and D, b) could get into Tech, and c) could stick. (Update: this meant he was economical in his recruiting; if a top player said he had little or no interest in Tech, Paul would move on. This in turn was a wise use of scare resources.) We actually succeeded in recruiting fairly high powered D recruits, especially under Ted. The O side brought in its share of 4 star recruits and was - I'll say it again, since people seem determined to forget - consistently effective and sometimes almost unstoppable. There's an equation here: the recruits we brought in on O were highly effective in delivering results. That, btw, is how we all should evaluate recruiting - by results.

Now Wisconsin. Yes, to all points. We can recruit like the Badgers and, if we have a decent player development program in place and coaches who know what they are doing, Tech can win at about the same rate. Problem = we don't have either the program or the coach to do either at present. Again, the results tell us this.

I'm not pulling for Tech to lose. I want us to go 10 - 2 or better. But I'm certainly not expecting it. And that's too bad.
 
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takethepoints

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5,911
Collin’s recruiting would improve dramatically if he could prove that he can win. I don’t believe for a second that 4-5 4star recruits is our ceiling at GT
I agree. I think we can get 7 or 8 a year and sometimes better, like VT. But … like you say, we have to win first.
 

Blue&Gold1034

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
101
So the 2010 recruiting class had the highest average recruit ranking of any class we have had since the 2007 class. That includes all of CGC's signing classes. You can look this up on Rivals and verify for yourself if you'd like. So he did build off the 2008 and 2009 seasons and was able to recruit fairly successfully. However the 2010 season's relatively poor results followed and brought recruiting down for 2011. But his classes bounced around - 2010 as I mentioned was the high point: 26th nationally for average recruit ranking, 5th in conference. 2012, 2014, 2015 and 2017 all rated around 34th nationally. Other classes were in the low to mid 40s, with the exception of 2013 and 2015 which were both low 50s and followed mediocre to horrible seasons. CGC's classes have ranked right around 31 nationally for comparison, basically on par with about half of CPJ's classes.

I agree with you that it wasn't a big part of the program for him - he was not a particularly avid recruiter to begin with, and the fact that lots of people said he couldn't get those players and couldn't win at this level I think led him to give his doubters the proverbial finger and say screw you I'll do it with the guys that fit what I need and I can easily get - frees up a little more time for golf. This is definitely one of his bigger weaknesses, and one our ADs should have addressed by hiring more/better support staff while everyone else was opening up their pocketbooks to try and be competitive - can you imagine someone like CGC out there recruiting for CPJ? We would have been destroying everyone we played. Instead we got Bobinski who wanted to fire him and did nothing to help that he didn't have to, leaving Tech lagging majorly behind our competitors and leaving recruiting as a notable issue.

This past off season tStan has moved to address some of the weaknesses of CGC, which seem to be primarily in the coaching department. The same was not done for CPJ.
I will have to check the average recruit ranking. I usually use 247sports as they do a composite ranking from all recruiting websites, but unfortunately they do not have those numbers for Techs 2010 class.

I truly believe you are undervaluing the idea that the higher tier players available didn't want to play for Tech based on Johnson's scheme. Getting a guy like CGC in the building at that time would've only done so much. When he goes to a 4 star WR house and outlines that he'll be run blocking 90% of the time and might catch 10-12 passes during the year, how well do you think that would go? High school players at that level want to know how the program is going to benefit them i.e. how they will be prepared for the next level. Johnson's scheme didn't do that consistently.

I will agree that this off season moves were made to address weaknesses, but the same was true for Johnson. How many DC came and went under Johnson, particularly guys that had success coaching previously. Ted Roof came to Tech after coaching the Nittany Lions to a top 25 rank defense and same with Nate Woody.
 
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