GT Player Deals

[Milwaukee]

Really good info on the NIL here from Ross Dellenger.

 

[jojatk]

your concept of working is odd. So you consider it “working” when you decide to play football ? Did you “work” on your degree ? Did you not do things that others didn’t have to do ? As a mentor were you giving back without payment ? Why weren’t you paid to tutor ? Or were you ? Is there a high demand for tutors to be paid or put on scholarship ? Why not ? You gave something of value That others didn’t.

you conflate personal choice with value. You think that because a football player has to take care of his body he’s doing something extra. You can’t be serious when you say he has to go to practice are you ? Do you understand that the entire college experience is a de facto “practice”. What were you going to classes for ? I would think you were conditioning your mind in your chosen endeavor. You practiced concepts didn’t you ? Did you put theory into “practice“.

as far as commenting goes. This entire blog topic is essentially about student compensation. You can parse it if it helps you state your opinion if you like but it’s all about compensation. There is no other business transaction in the world that demands access for no money AS you exploit property and facilities for personal gain. These players are free to exploit their value all they can, God bless them. Denying that what they are exploiting is in part provided by the school is a denial of reality. How much value does any athlete have to exploit if he/she isn’t in college where the competition is ? Where the value is created. College enhances an athlete’s ability to showcase themselves and it provides the competition to which they compare their value. They can take off the branding, the helmets and the free (that word again) equipment, go buy their own and sell themselves all they wish but as soon as they post a pic of themselves scoring a TD in a uniform or wearing the teams tag line they are benefitting from the schools value not their own and that value wasn’t generated by them it was generated by 10,000 other athletes, ADs and yes even taxpayers.

one more thing. I talk like I talk if my long winded posts bother you then simply dont read them, odd that you argue for student value and freedom AS you complain about my writing or talking style, you obviously don’t value everyone and their individual traits. I speak like I do because I’ve found that in life you have to beat the point into peoples heads over and over because they dont listen, which was exactly what you didn’t do when I first posted that both sides were greedy.

value isn’t determined only in monetization sometimes it’s actually in character. Nobody yet has disproven my original statement, both sides are greedy plain and simple

Actually I like your posts and I'm usually pretty long-winded myself so you being long-winded wouldn't bother me, on the contrary it like it when folks take the time to think about things and express them even if I don't agree. I have never, not even once, complained about your writing or talking style. You're implying an insult where none exists. If you feel both sides are greedy then at least that's consistent.

I think at this point we're not going to agree on whether the players are doing something that is valuable for the school. The school clearly monetizes what the players are doing. They didn't monetize my studying. On the other hand, during my time at GT I did help out a PhD student with his research that was being funded by the US Army. I wasn't paid for that work but instead I got 15 hours of "A" grades (I worked on the project for 3 quarters and got 5 hours of credit each quarter) and then I was allowed to use some of the materials for some of my own, independent research that I was then able to present at a student AIAA conference. I wasn't paid money but I did receive something in return for my work.

I don't agree that I conflate personal choice with value. I'm talking about the required workouts that players have to do as part of being on the team. They can do extra if they want and that's not what I'm referring to. Again, I'm talking about the things they are required to do to be a member of the team. Not the normal parts of being a student. So I'm not talking about going to class, even though they can be kicked off the team for not doing it. I'm not talking about things they may do outside of the required activities to improve their craft. I'm talking about the things they do to earn that athletic scholarship. They get something of value and they provide value back to the school. We likely disagree about whether the value they provide is greater than the value they receive. And that's OK because there are times when I go back and forth with myself about whether there's an inequality and if so which side is greater and which side is lesser.

 

[RonJohn]

I don't agree that I conflate personal choice with value. I'm talking about the required workouts that players have to do as part of being on the team. They can do extra if they want and that's not what I'm referring to. Again, I'm talking about the things they are required to do to be a member of the team. Not the normal parts of being a student. So I'm not talking about going to class, even though they can be kicked off the team for not doing it. I'm not talking about things they may do outside of the required activities to improve their craft. I'm talking about the things they do to earn that athletic scholarship. They get something of value and they provide value back to the school. We likely disagree about whether the value they provide is greater than the value they receive. And that's OK because there are times when I go back and forth with myself about whether there's an inequality and if so which side is greater and which side is lesser.

There are many more kids that play high school football than college. They don't get paid for playing.(At least not the vast vast majority) They can get kicked off of the team if they don't go to class, or don't do required athletic activities. There are plenty of college athletes that are interested in the sport as amateurs. There are also plenty of college athletes that are solely interested in playing professionally. The problem, in my opinion, with college basketball and college football is that there is no other method to play professionally except to attend college as a student-athlete. (I know one could potentially play one year professionally in Europe, but that is more difficult to most than just attending college.) An athlete who has no interest in college should not be required to attend college. They should have some method to make money for playing professionally if that is their only goal. The NFL and NBA have been very happy to use the NCAA teams as farm teams. The NCAA teams have been far too happy to make money by using the potential NFL and NBA players. Personally, I would prefer a legitimate professional farm system than a pay-for-play system in the NCAA. I understand that that would most likely cause the overall level of athletes at the top level decrease. I am ok with that. For the athletes, give professional opportunities to the athletes who want that and give educational opportunities to the athletes who want that. The NCAA should stop trying to be half one thing and half the other thing.

With respect to NIL. If De la Haye, or Olivia Dunne, or the Cavinder twins can use their personality and/or looks in order to make money, why should the NCAA care or be involved? Dunne can potentially make more in her four years of college than the majority of people with a degree from LSU make in their entire life. People are actually arguing that Dunne should forgo earning $4million to $8million dollars on her own because she is receiving a $200,000 education. If I had to decide between those two choices, I would choose the money.

 

[alagold]

The next step in the "process" is here.I heard that a uM bigwig is hiring ALL the scholly players for 500/.mo to advertize for his sports stores in Fla. A good inducement to play there probably. hmmm

 

[BuckeyeJacket]

Let me know if there are any updates on GT Player Deals instead of arguing.

 

[Root4GT]

There are many more kids that play high school football than college. They don't get paid for playing.(At least not the vast vast majority) They can get kicked off of the team if they don't go to class, or don't do required athletic activities. There are plenty of college athletes that are interested in the sport as amateurs. There are also plenty of college athletes that are solely interested in playing professionally. The problem, in my opinion, with college basketball and college football is that there is no other method to play professionally except to attend college as a student-athlete. (I know one could potentially play one year professionally in Europe, but that is more difficult to most than just attending college.) An athlete who has no interest in college should not be required to attend college. They should have some method to make money for playing professionally if that is their only goal. The NFL and NBA have been very happy to use the NCAA teams as farm teams. The NCAA teams have been far too happy to make money by using the potential NFL and NBA players. Personally, I would prefer a legitimate professional farm system than a pay-for-play system in the NCAA. I understand that that would most likely cause the overall level of athletes at the top level decrease. I am ok with that. For the athletes, give professional opportunities to the athletes who want that and give educational opportunities to the athletes who want that. The NCAA should stop trying to be half one thing and half the other thing.

With respect to NIL. If De la Haye, or Olivia Dunne, or the Cavinder twins can use their personality and/or looks in order to make money, why should the NCAA care or be involved? Dunne can potentially make more in her four years of college than the majority of people with a degree from LSU make in their entire life. People are actually arguing that Dunne should forgo earning $4million to $8million dollars on her own because she is receiving a $200,000 education. If I had to decide between those two choices, I would choose the money.

There is zero incentive for the NFL and NBA to stop using colleges as farm systems. They get the service for free.
The NCAA, like dang near everything is in the business of making money. School Athletic Departments make a ton of revenue. One could argue their expenditures are frankly stupid but there is a crazy spending race to be winners as losing teams and programs don’t generate the revenue to pay the massive salaries ADs and coaches get.

you are correct the current system might fall apart in 10-15 years. I have a hard time believing minor league football, even with Alabama on the jersey will work very well over time. There will be regional interest in the southeast and upper Midwest. The rest of the country won’t give a hoot.

 

[Lee]

Perhaps. But there are some good sociological studies that might surprise you about how much empathy and selflessness are hardwired into human existence. Of course, a difficult or abusive childhood can hardwire you the other way.

Agree.

I was blessed to have a selfless grandma and mom show me what it looks like. I’d be lying if I don’t struggle with this, but having it modeled to me growing up makes it much more likely for me to have a chance.

 

[jojatk]

Let me know if there are any updates on GT Player Deals instead of arguing.

And I thought what was happening was pretty good discussion. I’m OK taking it to another thread though.

 

[TooTall]

So question to all those complaining....how does student athletes getting paid effect your life? How does it hurt Ga Tech?

Spoiler

The answer to both is...IT DON'T so hush

 

[IM79]

What I can tell you from experience is that the school doesn’t (or didn’t) care about you once you leave unless you “made it” or they want something from you (usually money

In the next few years, a handful of high-level players will be pulling in $1M plus for endorsements/appearances, and the vast majority of players will become low-level instagram salesmen.

Someone will score a TD, pull out a “Manscaping” ad from their sock to show on TV, and we’ll wonder if we’ve gone to far. But I say, if the kids want to hawk gizmos and gadgets, let them do it.

My only question; have the NIL laws or schools installed parameters on the type of product that a player may endorse? Going to be interesting to see what happens when players start advertising for sports gambling sites or more salacious industries with plenty of money.

BYU has long list of prohibited products.

 

[Technut1990]

Your false assumption is players getting something for free. They don’t, they work and receive education compensation in return for their work. Saying it’s free is simply BS.

nope you are wrong. I never said players don’t work, they are definitely getting a free education. There mainly working on enhancing their pro potential though. That’s the rub. When you and I work we are earning money or compensation for a service we were hired to perform that’s in the interest of our employer. When an athlete gets a scholly he or she is equally working on his pro opportunities, which he/she wants to reach for and performing an act that provides benefit for the school. What they are getting for free is the equipment, training, nutrition regiment/ food, hosting of Pro Days, TV exposure that cost millions, travel, overnight stay etc… plus a degree that has real monetary value.

y’all seem hell bent to say the degree isn’t free because of inherent tasks or that the scholly isn’t free because they have to follow team rules which require task specific chores. All of which are required for anyone to chase their dream, why you differentiate an athletes dream chasing and a regular students chase I don’t know but that’s what the result of your positions sound like.

I have yet to hear any of you even utter the words that regular college attendance requires work, much less work that should be compensated. Tech draws millions from the work students are doing in the lab why isn’t that shared with the “workers” ?

 

[Technut1990]

Please explain how the athletes didn’t earn their scholarship. You also changed your argument from free education to exposure. Interesting.

Can one only pay with currency? Is there no other way to earn something.

Did you pay your wife to marry her? Or did you EARN her trust, treat her well, and EARN her love over time?

Free is something given with no expectations of anything in return. I love my kids freely. Nothing they can do will change that.

Jesus freely gave His life for all of humanity. Nothing we can do to earn His love. It’s freely give.

where did I say they didn’t earn the scholly, I know they ain’t paying for it but if the school wants to give them an education and not charge them that’s up to the school

I didn’t change anything, I’m talking to 2-3 different people not just you. I will say that the issue at hand is monetary compensation, otherwise known as money payments ( ok you got me again it may be direct deposit or a check ) and it’s what the entire subject has been about from the player perspective, getting paid. you are the one arguing that there are more ways to define compensation.

I agree with your definitions of free love and expectations in life but we have been arguing over money, y’all are the ones giving the exceptions to a common definition. These kids aren’t paying for school, they don’t pay for anything they need in school or sports, as long as all other students are charged a fee then in my book what SAs get is ”free”.

i didn’t expect this to turn into a Bill Clinton defense, depends on what is is.

 

[Technut1990]

Actually I like your posts and I'm usually pretty long-winded myself so you being long-winded wouldn't bother me, on the contrary it like it when folks take the time to think about things and express them even if I don't agree. I have never, not even once, complained about your writing or talking style. You're implying an insult where none exists. If you feel both sides are greedy then at least that's consistent.

I think at this point we're not going to agree on whether the players are doing something that is valuable for the school. The school clearly monetizes what the players are doing. They didn't monetize my studying. On the other hand, during my time at GT I did help out a PhD student with his research that was being funded by the US Army. I wasn't paid for that work but instead I got 15 hours of "A" grades (I worked on the project for 3 quarters and got 5 hours of credit each quarter) and then I was allowed to use some of the materials for some of my own, independent research that I was then able to present at a student AIAA conference. I wasn't paid money but I did receive something in return for my work.

I don't agree that I conflate personal choice with value. I'm talking about the required workouts that players have to do as part of being on the team. They can do extra if they want and that's not what I'm referring to. Again, I'm talking about the things they are required to do to be a member of the team. Not the normal parts of being a student. So I'm not talking about going to class, even though they can be kicked off the team for not doing it. I'm not talking about things they may do outside of the required activities to improve their craft. I'm talking about the things they do to earn that athletic scholarship. They get something of value and they provide value back to the school. We likely disagree about whether the value they provide is greater than the value they receive. And that's OK because there are times when I go back and forth with myself about whether there's an inequality and if so which side is greater and which side is lesser.

I just thought your wording was snarky on the length of my post. I’m use to the arguing I learned fast on this site to expect a fight, maybe I was to fast to get offended.

im just lost on the thought that attending practice and workouts counts as “work” for the purpose of this conversation. If I bring a talent to a company and they ask me to use it I would think that my prep to display that talent is just another aspect of being good at the talent itself.

I mean this viewpoint opens things up really wide in a wage disputes. If I did accounting really well can I say that the new car I bought was something I should be paid for outside my salary ? I have to come to work which would be a task I’d generally perform, I have to shower, brush my teeth in order to come in and do the accounting, why shouldn’t the company buy me a car ? Toothpaste, pay my water bill ?

or is it generally thought that my prep is part and parcel of my job ?

id hate to see a football player actually play in a game if he didn’t work out, poor guy would get killed.

 

[awbuzz]

Curious about the $500 per month for the Miami players to "advertise" for the gym. What all are they "required" to do?
Wear a T-shirt once a week in public?
Spend 20 hours a week ($25/hr), 5 hours ($100/hour) "working out" at the gym?

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Curious about the $500 per month for the Miami players to "advertise" for the gym. What all are they "required" to do?
Wear a T-shirt once a week in public?
Spend 20 hours a week ($25/hr), 5 hours ($100/hour) "working out" at the gym?

Sounds like he wants them to tag his gym whenever they are on social media. Frankly, in today’s digital media, that’s better than billboards or TV ads, so money well spent. What I don’t know is how the gym owner is going to monitor all of their accounts to see if they are following through.

 

[Lee]

These kids aren’t paying for school, they don’t pay for anything they need in school or sports, as long as all other students are charged a fee then in my book what SAs get is ”free”.

This back and forth doesn’t need to continue. Seems like a we are arguing over different things anyways.

The above is somewhat what I’m getting at. More to the point if there are other students that get “free” education. Either through academic or other means. Those students have no restrictions on their ability to make money to my knowledge.

Why should it be any different for athletes?

 

[Skeptic]

This entire argument comes down to greed and freedom. Apparently we simply ignore the value of a free education, that most of us have to finance for our kids to get. we act like it’s nothing when it’s huge.

 

[Skeptic]

Exactly. A full 4-year scholarship has value far beyond the dollars so it is not like the athletes are all give and no get. I am not arguing they have no rights, but let's acknowledge that scholarship is literally priceless. Not to mention some, a lot, of those athletes could not get into a major university were it not for the sport they play.

 

[alagold]

Curious about the $500 per month for the Miami players to "advertise" for the gym. What all are they "required" to do?
Wear a T-shirt once a week in public?
Spend 20 hours a week ($25/hr), 5 hours ($100/hour) "working out" at the gym?

Who knows? As far as I know there are no rules/controls.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

So question to all those complaining....how does student athletes getting paid effect your life? How does it hurt Ga Tech?

Spoiler

The answer to both is...IT DON'T so hush

True! It effects no one here. But, it’s the off season and this is fairly big news in the college football world so can’t we spend a week talking about it? What the heck else is going on GT related right now? Nothing.