GT needed a change

[LongforDodd]

That usually means it was deleted, not moved.

Shiii....My stuff being deleted?

 

[Pointer]

We won the Orange Bowl in 2014, then dropped in 2015. Wasn't the coaching. It was injuries and roster depletion (which CPJ said would be the case). Next years OCC would give any P5 coach reason to worry....ND, UCF, uga.

Year 3 will be his first year with sophomores that he recruited from the get go. Then we will see where we are.

If you want to fire a guy with a 7 year contract, please donate that money you have now so we can surpass the AI2020. ADTS gave a 7 year contract because he knows where we were at and what it will take to get where we want to be. It takes time. This years recruits were CPJ recruits.

AND yes it matters 100% what system you are recruited to and what system you played. At 7ft 275, I was recruited for a half-court offense, but when that coach left and the new coach wanted to run full speed up and down, we went from missing the national tourny by 11 points to only winning 8 games. Pretty much same team, but we just didn't have the tools to run what he wanted to run. GIVE THE MAN TIME TO GET HIS GUYS IN HERE.

Like I've stated before, the coaching staff was put together for a big splash with the money we had, not to sustain us. We will lose 2 to 3 each year after next year until the staff has turned completely over.

This coaching staff specifically stated they would run what would put the players in the best position. Sounds like your new (old) coach did the same thing and took a good product and made a pretty bad season it of it so that he can install what he wanted. Fritz didn't have much of a problem running a different offense when he took over Georgia southern.

 

[Pointer]

On the other hand (half-empty version), weren't we a couple of plays away from finishing in the bottom 1/3?

But it's wasn't. And we'll see if this season can match last year's. Still many games to be played.

 

[jojatk]

Yep.....there is no prior proof of success.....it is a big roll of the dice., especially with someone with so little HC experience.

I'm as big a CGC supporter as you'll find and I agree that hiring him is a big roll of the dice. There's no sure thing with hiring anyone but your comment about him having very little HC experience is absolutely correct in terms of not having enough of a track record to indicate, for sure, that we should expect huge dividends.

My personal feeling is that we have a couple of tough years due to the transition from system to system. But bear with me for a moment to explain what I mean by that. I am not talking about level of talent or depth, though I think we are challenged a bit especially on the latter (depth, not talent) and quite a bit where our QBs, OLs, and WRs aren't quite ready to execute the passing game but that should come with time. I'm talking more about the fact that while CDP might be a very good OC once he's got his guys in place he might not be great at making the best out of what he's got when it isn't his guys. I think most people will acknowledge that CPJ is an offensive genius. I think it is part of his genius that he is able to make the most out of whatever players he has (sometimes you are limited by what you have and "making the most" is still not great). I happen to think that our current staff are better at making the most of what they have on defense and not so much on offense.

I do like the offensive position coach hires, though, and I think it's just going to take time to get the most out of those guys.

 

[LongforDodd]

But it's wasn't. And we'll see if this season can match last year's. Still many games to be played.

But neither did we finish as champs.

So...let's agree to hope about this year.

 

[TooTall]

This coaching staff specifically stated they would run what would put the players in the best position. Sounds like your new (old) coach did the same thing and took a good product and made a pretty bad season it of it so that he can install what he wanted. Fritz didn't have much of a problem running a different offense when he took over Georgia southern.

Fritz did, and does, run a similar offense to the 3O. Look at Van Gorder and Hatcher for a much better view of changing offenses at GSU does and the time it would take. Van Gorder was our after 1 year -quitter- and Hatcher was fired because the GSU fan base is spoiled, to put it bluntly.

It's much easier to go from normal offense to 3O than the other way around. Look at what Lunsford has done there after the complete failure that Summers was.

We better watch out, this thread will get moved to a GSU site lol

 

[Pointer]

Fritz did, and does, run a similar offense. Look at Van Gorder and Hatcher for a much better view of changing offenses at GSU does and the time it would take. Van Gorder was our after 1 year -quitter- and Hatcher was fired because the GSU fan base is spoiled, to put it bluntly.

I think they just enjoyed winning. Nothing wrong with that. I'm not getting into this debate again. See Cuse I'm ending it on my end.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I wanted to find a place for the off topic posts from the "Collins in-game coaching" thread rather than Recycle them. This seemed like an appropriate landing spot.

Odd that the post I directly responded to didn’t end up here also then.....

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Fritz did, and does, run a similar offense to the 3O. Look at Van Gorder and Hatcher for a much better view of changing offenses at GSU does and the time it would take. Van Gorder was our after 1 year -quitter- and Hatcher was fired because the GSU fan base is spoiled, to put it bluntly.

It's much easier to go from normal offense to 3O than the other way around. Look at what Lunsford has done there after the complete failure that Summers was.

We better watch out, this thread will get moved to a GSU site lol

The idea that it’s easier to go from a “normal offense” whatever that is...to a 3O...and harder to go from a 3O to a normal offense....makes no sense at all.

 

[LongforDodd]

The idea that it’s easier to go from a “normal offense” whatever that is...to a 3O...and harder to go from a 3O to a normal offense....makes no sense at all.

Aside from the fact that we don't have an OC, our decimated OL has to be the primary reason we're struggling with the transition.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Aside from the fact that we don't have an OC, our decimated OL has to be the primary reason we're struggling with the transition.

Completely agree. Our OL issues have been a huge hurdle. One the OC probably should get some benefit of the doubt on in some respects. Not all, but some.

 

[Animal02]

.
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I'm as big a CGC supporter as you'll find and I agree that hiring him is a big roll of the dice. There's no sure thing with hiring anyone but your comment about him having very little HC experience is absolutely correct in terms of not having enough of a track record to indicate, for sure, that we should expect huge dividends.

My personal feeling is that we have a couple of tough years due to the transition from system to system. But bear with me for a moment to explain what I mean by that. I am not talking about level of talent or depth, though I think we are challenged a bit especially on the latter (depth, not talent) and quite a bit where our QBs, OLs, and WRs aren't quite ready to execute the passing game but that should come with time. I'm talking more about the fact that while CDP might be a very good OC once he's got his guys in place he might not be great at making the best out of what he's got when it isn't his guys. I think most people will acknowledge that CPJ is an offensive genius. I think it is part of his genius that he is able to make the most out of whatever players he has (sometimes you are limited by what you have and "making the most" is still not great). I happen to think that our current staff are better at making the most of what they have on defense and not so much on offense.

I do like the offensive position coach hires, though, and I think it's just going to take time to get the most out of those guys.

I would not have had a problem had they rolled the dice with him, with an appropriate salary, length of contract, and even loaded up incentives.....but that is not what happened.....

 

[Animal02]

Odd that the post I directly responded to didn’t end up here also then.....

Odd to how a response to a post was called pot stirring yet the original was not.

 

[85Escape]

I just read this whole thread. I need a beer. Maybe two.

 

[jojatk]

.
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I would not have had a problem had they rolled the dice with him, with an appropriate salary, length of contract, and even loaded up incentives.....but that is not what happened.....

We can agree to disagree, respectfully, as we have before. I understand why you characterize it as you have (my way of saying I respect where you're coming from). I look at it from both sides as a roll of the dice. GT is taking a risk in bringing him in. There's never a sure thing but we do agree that 2 years isn't much of a track record to go on and that's our risk. We've put ourselves into a situation where we have gone "all-in" and I think TStan understands that. I believe that he got advice from folks who know Geoff and judged that the risk we were taking was justified. From Geoff's side he's taking a pretty big risk, himself. I'm sure he believes he can do what he says he can do but there's definitely a risk that kids won't respond to the messaging, that GT fans won't support such a radical change, and that he won't get the time he knows he needs in order to retool the program. And if he can't turn it around who knows when he'll get another HC offer. We felt he was worth the risk and in order to get him to take the risk coming to GT (and it absolutely is a risk for him) we had to make some decisions on what, contractually, we were willing to do.

I think one place we probably agree at least to some degree is that I'd have been more comfortable with 1-2 years less on the contract. But I understand what TStan is doing even if I am a little more risk-averse. I think TStan is also saying to the athletes and the HS coaches and our assistant coaches and the mentors to the HS athletes that "GT is in this for the long haul and we are going to see this through." I know we both hope he's right.

 

[Animal02]

We can agree to disagree, respectfully, as we have before. I understand why you characterize it as you have (my way of saying I respect where you're coming from). I look at it from both sides as a roll of the dice. GT is taking a risk in bringing him in. There's never a sure thing but we do agree that 2 years isn't much of a track record to go on and that's our risk. We've put ourselves into a situation where we have gone "all-in" and I think TStan understands that. I believe that he got advice from folks who know Geoff and judged that the risk we were taking was justified. From Geoff's side he's taking a pretty big risk, himself. I'm sure he believes he can do what he says he can do but there's definitely a risk that kids won't respond to the messaging, that GT fans won't support such a radical change, and that he won't get the time he knows he needs in order to retool the program. And if he can't turn it around who knows when he'll get another HC offer. We felt he was worth the risk and in order to get him to take the risk coming to GT (and it absolutely is a risk for him) we had to make some decisions on what, contractually, we were willing to do.

I think one place we probably agree at least to some degree is that I'd have been more comfortable with 1-2 years less on the contract. But I understand what TStan is doing even if I am a little more risk-averse. I think TStan is also saying to the athletes and the HS coaches and our assistant coaches and the mentors to the HS athletes that "GT is in this for the long haul and we are going to see this through." I know we both hope he's right.

With 5 years being a lifetime in college football, 7 is ridiculous. As for the $$$, all they had to do is load it into incentives...number of wins , etc. CGC has little risk with the money he is guaranteed. This and several other things TStan has done just leaves me with more questions.

 

[85Escape]

Okay, I've had my first one.

I was (am) a CPJ fan. I am a CGC fan. I just don't see those things as mutually exclusive. I will say about both of them, just like I say about every leader in my organization, their strengths are their weaknesses.

Wisdom holds that all coins have two sides.

I loved Paul's stubbornness. I loved the way he'd ram the ball up the middle when he knew...knew...that the men up-front could do it. I absolutely loved the death marches (although they sucked to be on the other side of last week. I see why opposing fans hated playing us.) But that same stubbornness meant he refused to change much (no one can credibly say he didn't change at all over the years.) He was convinced that the system would work and kept at it. That's a virtue until it becomes a flaw. And sometimes it did.

I love CGC's energy, his optimism and his belief that a positive outlook precedes success (all the neuroscience and psychological studies support him on that.) I love that he preaches family, and culture and belonging. I think he will win long-term. Does his strength manifest at times as a weakness? Sure. It does with all of us, every day.

Change takes time. It takes passion and it takes repetition. Inure yourselves to the message...if he's doing his job you'll be sick of it at some point. And let's give him a chance. He's taken only the first few steps on a long journey and what he needs now, what the team needs now, is for us to display a modicum of patience. In any new venture, you should expect to fall down. It comes with the territory and it doesn't really matter in the long run. It's all about how you stand up. I say we put out our hand and say 'Next time, boss' as we help him up.

 

[jojatk]

With 5 years being a lifetime in college football, 7 is ridiculous. As for the $$$, all they had to do is load it into incentives...number of wins , etc. CGC has little risk with the money he is guaranteed. This and several other things TStan has done just leaves me with more questions.

I appreciate your position on this. And as I said, I would have preferred 5 years, myself. But clearly TStan thinks the potential reward is worth the risk. And it's fair for you to say it leaves you with more questions. Of course neither you, nor I, know if Collins would have accepted less years with more incentives. Collins has less short term financial risk but if he fails here he may never get another HC gig at a major college so I disagree that there's little risk for him overall.

I think what we can clearly see, though, is that TStan feels very strongly that Collins is the guy to lead the football program. I think he's betting his own job on it. I believe, though I can't prove, that TStan feels that he has a pretty good understanding of what it takes to be successful at GT having been here before when Homer Rice was here (this is not me saying TStan absolutely knows, it's me saying I think TStan feels that he knows). I think he also most likely solicited advice from others who have walked the walk at GT and that they probably advised him that they feel Collins is a great choice. Again, that's not me saying definitively that he is, just that I would bet that TStan got that advice from people who know both GT and Collins. So he was willing to give Collins the job and a TON of rope. And like I've said before, I'm sure we both hope that Collins turns out to be the man to get the job done.

 

[smokey_wasp]

I appreciate your position on this. And as I said, I would have preferred 5 years, myself. But clearly TStan thinks the potential reward is worth the risk. And it's fair for you to say it leaves you with more questions. Of course neither you, nor I, know if Collins would have accepted less years with more incentives. Collins has less short term financial risk but if he fails here he may never get another HC gig at a major college so I disagree that there's little risk for him overall.

I think what we can clearly see, though, is that TStan feels very strongly that Collins is the guy to lead the football program. I think he's betting his own job on it. I believe, though I can't prove, that TStan feels that he has a pretty good understanding of what it takes to be successful at GT having been here before when Homer Rice was here (this is not me saying TStan absolutely knows, it's me saying I think TStan feels that he knows). I think he also most likely solicited advice from others who have walked the walk at GT and that they probably advised him that they feel Collins is a great choice. Again, that's not me saying definitively that he is, just that I would bet that TStan got that advice from people who know both GT and Collins. So he was willing to give Collins the job and a TON of rope. And like I've said before, I'm sure we both hope that Collins turns out to be the man to get the job done.

You mean like a certain silver haired former GT head coach?

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

You mean like a certain silver haired former GT head coach?

The one Tech tossed to the curb? He didn’t retire....he got retired. And most Tech fans rejoiced because we took a small short term dip in performance. I was never able to get stoked about Tech b-ball again. Even the championship run though I pulled hard for those guys to win it. Still haven’t. Tech has kinda gotten what they deserved and they certainly got the change they were asking for.

Now where do we put this derail you started and I have continued. Yo Cuse....clean up on aisle 3!