GT looking at coordinators as head coaches

[Longestday]

I confess to not reading every single post buy I have to ask....who in the hell thinks that? I haven't seen anyone here or amongst my GT buddies say or even imply such a thing. Are you responding to anybody specifically? I think the vision amongst my group of friends is to get to a Gailey level of competitiveness with a few of Johnson's outlier years. I think this would satisfy 98% of our fan base.

I agree with you added it would be nice to occasionally win over the other Georgia school.

My general thought is …The pick a good Xs and Os crowd has your expectations… the pick the recruiter crowd is more along the lines we need to compete like UGA. I cannot help but think the pick an Alabama OC has some of the UGA route to success associated. This made think of other coordinators and how they are fairing as head coach.

 

[slugboy]

Sure, I'm just looking for a point of reference. What percentage of top 10 or top 25 p5 coaches came from a coordinator position vs g5 hc?

I don’t know about top 10, but it’s about 1/3rd of P5 head coaches who were G5 head coaches first
Post in thread 'Your choice for Head Coach'
https://gtswarm.com/threads/your-choice-for-head-coach.25988/post-912073

Inside the top 10, you have
UGA - coordinator
Ohio State- coordinator
Michigan- NFL coach (Harbaugh)
TCU- G5
Tennessee- G5
Oregon - coordinator
LSU -“P5” (Kelly from ND)
USC - P5 (Riley)
UCLA- NFL (Kelly)
Bama- NFL

So, 3/10 were most recently NFL head coaches, 3/10 were P5 coordinators, 2/10 were P5 head coaches, and 2/10 were G5 head coaches

 

[wrmathis]

Dumb question/comment, but couldnt one argue that EVERY head coach was a coordinator at one point. So basically all good head coaches came from that path But so did all the terrible coaches

Dabo?

 

[2ndgenjacket]

I’m all for this if it’s garret riley!

 

[stinger 1957]

I'm fine with coordinators if they're disciplinarians, great recruiters, good character, just have the $ available to hire the staff they need to succeed, have the money for NIL/Portal and let them put together a team over couple years. Best chance to get butts in seats, viewers on TV, more contributors.

 

[Longestday]

I guess BOB fits the NFL coach, NFLcoordinator, P5 HC, and P5 coordinator (Duke and Ala).

 

[EE95_curse EMAG!]

I am moving toward the belief that Brent Key should be retained as our next Head Coach. I think he has done well with the situation he was handed post-Collins. One key aspect that has me thinking in that direction, is the emergence of our young quarterback, Zack Pyron. Zack and Brent are basically from the same place in Alabama and Brent was heavily involved in Zack's recruiting. There just seems to be a chemistry and synergy that is becoming more and more prevalent as this season moves forward there. Quarterbacks make or break college football programs and I think we have a special one.

If a new guy takes the reigns it is going to take 3 to 5 years to determine if he is the right guy or not, regardless of who it is. One thing about Key is you know he loves Georgia Tech and he will give it his very best effort to make the program the best it can be. He has a good relationship in the State of Georgia with the High School coaches. He has existing relationships with the current players and knows our current needs. I think he could put together a good staff and recruit well.

Go Jackets!

Keeping Key means a slow slog from oblivion to below average. No thanks. I'd argue the 3 to 5 years to determine if the new coach was right applies even moreso to Key and what choices he makes to improve the staff. If he maintains the two coordinators, then it would be like we never fired Collins.

The only way I would want to consider Key is if he committed to letting every current coordinator and coach go and field a whole new staff that was vetted by the AD and the search firm. I am sorry, I don't trust Key to hire worthy coordinators.

If they interview and hire him, I'd be behind him, but reluctantly so. I am hoping he is not the hire, we need to aim MUCH higher.

 

[slugboy]

I guess BOB fits the NFL coach, NFLcoordinator, P5 HC, and P5 coordinator (Duke and Ala).

You usually go with the last job held, so he’d be “P5 Coordinator”

How weird to go from NFL HC to P5 Coordinator, though.

 

[EE95_curse EMAG!]

GT is considering some coordinators as head coach.

Question, how are the famed Clemson coordinators doing as head coaches?

It's year one for them, so not the right time to pass judgement at all. If they're as bad next year, then I would feel comfortable calling them busts, but not this year.

 

[EE95_curse EMAG!]

I confess to not reading every single post buy I have to ask....who in the hell thinks that? I haven't seen anyone here or amongst my GT buddies say or even imply such a thing. Are you responding to anybody specifically? I think the vision amongst my group of friends is to get to a Gailey level of competitiveness with a few of Johnson's outlier years. I think this would satisfy 98% of our fan base.

Then don't include me in the highly suspect 98% number. I don't want mediocrity as some do. I want to at least aim and shoot for national relevance. If we don't make it to that level, fine, but I don't want to settle (the new coaching search will speak to that) right from the get-go. I think you may be correct about a majority of Tech fans, but nothing close to 98%.

 

[iceeater1969]

I’m all for this if it’s garret riley!

No get TCU s DC = Joe Gillespie!

He s got a great 335 defense that plays fast

 

[4shotB]

Then don't include me in the highly suspect 98% number. I don't want mediocrity as some do. I want to at least aim and shoot for national relevance. If we don't make it to that level, fine, but I don't want to settle (the new coaching search will speak to that) right from the get-go. I think you may be correct about a majority of Tech fans, but nothing close to 98%.

Are you refuting my made up on the spot statistics? I somewhat agree with you in spirit and remenber how pissed we all were with Dave Braine's comment saying essentially the same. I agree with you that the vision of the AD abd HFC should be as you described. I am somewhat optimistic in that for the first time in my lifetime, this aparently has become the goal at the top (school president), which in my mind has been our biggest stumbling block (an organizational commitment a the top rather than a departmental commitment). With that being said, I don't think GT fans are as crazy? rabid? as some of our neighbors. We aren't going to burn through coaches ala Auburn. A guy with Richt's accomplishments is NOT getting fired at GT. I would say that we are more tolerant perhaps we do recognize that we face some challenges that the schools we are annual competitors in the CFP do not. I do not think that is the same as the dreaded "accepting mediocrity" cliche.

 

[cpf2001]

“Don’t accept mediocrity” seems nice but also a bit of an empty platitude.

Like, you want us to be willing to take another spin after plateauing like letting go of Gailey in 2007? Sure, sounds good, let’s aim high, no complaints or disagreements there.

But you would be pissed at any hire except l someone who’s demonstrated winning at top-15 level and could bring huge overnight success? Want us to try to go 0-60? Some folks in other threads seem to be in that camp. But we aren’t there right now, and I don’t know about you, but I don’t have the money to write big enough checks to make that realistic. So we gotta take things one step at a time and build up the finances with something decent to get there. Or get a mega donor windfall…

 

[EE95_curse EMAG!]

“Don’t accept mediocrity” seems nice but also a bit of an empty platitude.

Like, you want us to be willing to take another spin after plateauing like letting go of Gailey in 2007? Sure, sounds good, let’s aim high, no complaints or disagreements there.

But you would be pissed at any hire except l someone who’s demonstrated winning at top-15 level and could bring huge overnight success? Want us to try to go 0-60? Some folks in other threads seem to be in that camp. But we aren’t there right now, and I don’t know about you, but I don’t have the money to write big enough checks to make that realistic. So we gotta take things one step at a time and build up the finances with something decent to get there. Or get a mega donor windfall…

Not sure if this is directed at my earlier comments or not. I see a power 5 conference job, in a huge metro area, in a big time football state as a good job. I feel that we've gotten use to settling for 30 or 40 years (for the most part) and too many think "respectable" football is our ceiling. It's not. A national championship is our ceiling. Is it more difficult a climb here, as opposed to Miami, Auburn, Nebraska and other schools that had fallen on hard times? sure.

I see way too many on this site claiming "no good coach would be interested" and "can't recruit well due to academics" and alluding to most recent good seasons of 7-9 wins all we could possible demand. It's almost as if we accept losing, as long as we don't get blown out.

I have asked this before in many of my posts, but will ask again. What is holding the GT football program back from national prominence, other than our own fans apathy? I say nothing. No reason we can't be a top 25 team and a top 25 recruiting program with a run at the CFP every 4 or 5 years...at the VERY least. Just because we have not been doing that, doesn't mean our glass ceiling is second tier in ACC and outside of top 25 nationally. That's just a limit put up by many a fan on here. Too many excuses and not enough desire.

I am sick of playing it safe and making excuses. Prior to Bobby Dodd leaving, that attitude would have been comical. Slowly, over the decades since, we've allowed ourselves to get trained/brainwashed into believing we don't belong on the same field as UGA. Given our fight song says otherwise, that's pretty sad.

 

[JacketFan137]

Not sure if this is directed at my earlier comments or not. I see a power 5 conference job, in a huge metro area, in a big time football state as a good job. I feel that we've gotten use to settling for 30 or 40 years (for the most part) and too many think "respectable" football is our ceiling. It's not. A national championship is our ceiling. Is it more difficult a climb here, as opposed to Miami, Auburn, Nebraska and other schools that had fallen on hard times? sure.

I see way too many on this site claiming "no good coach would be interested" and "can't recruit well due to academics" and alluding to most recent good seasons of 7-9 wins all we could possible demand. It's almost as if we accept losing, as long as we don't get blown out.

I have asked this before in many of my posts, but will ask again. What is holding the GT football program back from national prominence, other than our own fans apathy? I say nothing. No reason we can't be a top 25 team and a top 25 recruiting program with a run at the CFP every 4 or 5 years...at the VERY least. Just because we have not been doing that, doesn't mean our glass ceiling is second tier in ACC and outside of top 25 nationally. That's just a limit put up by many a fan on here. Too many excuses and not enough desire.

I am sick of playing it safe and making excuses. Prior to Bobby Dodd leaving, that attitude would have been comical. Slowly, over the decades since, we've allowed ourselves to get trained/brainwashed into believing we don't belong on the same field as UGA. Given our fight song says otherwise, that's pretty sad.

i agree with everything you’re saying. i think some people actively don’t want tech to be that good and would prefer to just be the jealous little brother that plays spoiler once in a blue moon than be the one winning

 

[yeti92]

Not sure if this is directed at my earlier comments or not. I see a power 5 conference job, in a huge metro area, in a big time football state as a good job. I feel that we've gotten use to settling for 30 or 40 years (for the most part) and too many think "respectable" football is our ceiling. It's not. A national championship is our ceiling. Is it more difficult a climb here, as opposed to Miami, Auburn, Nebraska and other schools that had fallen on hard times? sure.

I see way too many on this site claiming "no good coach would be interested" and "can't recruit well due to academics" and alluding to most recent good seasons of 7-9 wins all we could possible demand. It's almost as if we accept losing, as long as we don't get blown out.

I have asked this before in many of my posts, but will ask again. What is holding the GT football program back from national prominence, other than our own fans apathy? I say nothing. No reason we can't be a top 25 team and a top 25 recruiting program with a run at the CFP every 4 or 5 years...at the VERY least. Just because we have not been doing that, doesn't mean our glass ceiling is second tier in ACC and outside of top 25 nationally. That's just a limit put up by many a fan on here. Too many excuses and not enough desire.

I am sick of playing it safe and making excuses. Prior to Bobby Dodd leaving, that attitude would have been comical. Slowly, over the decades since, we've allowed ourselves to get trained/brainwashed into believing we don't belong on the same field as UGA. Given our fight song says otherwise, that's pretty sad.

I look forward to your very generous donations to the AA that will get us to consistently being a top 25 program and making runs at the CFP every 4 or 5 years.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

i agree with everything you’re saying. i think some people actively don’t want tech to be that good and would prefer to just be the jealous little brother that plays spoiler once in a blue moon than be the one winning

Some people understand our natural limitations. How can we maximize our results while minimizing our weakness. You consistently ignore the larger picture in your obsesive focus on undermining a style of offensive play .

To ignore some of our built in limitations is folly. We could very well compete with UGA, Alabama, Clemson. But we need to give up the idea of students actually taking real classes. The BOR needs to allow us to have different majors AND the Institute needs to want to let the "easy" degrees happen.

But today not only do they have to take a real major, but it has to be a Science based one with harder classes.

We also have huge budget issues that would take a decade of success to slowly grow out of. But the real student thing hurts us.


We need a 10-15 year plan. Not a pick this coach because he has a traditional offense and "Hope" it works out in 2 years and maybe he can recruit 5% better than some other guy.

 

[Vespidae]

But we need to give up the idea of students actually taking real classes. The BOR needs to allow us to have different majors AND the Institute needs to want to let the "easy" degrees happen.

There is *some* truth to this but I don't think it's as big a deal today as it was say, 15 years ago.

I teach at Auburn and I can tell you with certainty that students take real classes and attend classes. Their location is geo-tracked and if they are not in class, they get a call from an Athletic Dept minder. I have to fill out reports 3-4x a semester on progress and there is a whole team of people to either help tutor them or ... hold them accountable. I know one starter who did not dress this past weekend because of poor grades and the Athletic Dept told him to sit out.

Is that true everywhere? No. UGA, when I taught in the Georgia, has a terrible reputation for academics in athletics and Clemson is probably worse. There, you can play as a Senior while being enrolled as a "Pre-Business" major which is a freshman developmental program prior to enrolling in the B-School.

There are tons of football players in the business school at AU and I can imagine the percentage is similar at Tech. Again, it's an issue, but it's not like it used to be. I would not use this as a reason Tech can't compete/recruit.

 

[slugboy]

Some people understand our natural limitations. How can we maximize our results while minimizing our weakness. You consistently ignore the larger picture in your obsesive focus on undermining a style of offensive play .

To ignore some of our built in limitations is folly. We could very well compete with UGA, Alabama, Clemson. But we need to give up the idea of students actually taking real classes. The BOR needs to allow us to have different majors AND the Institute needs to want to let the "easy" degrees happen.

But today not only do they have to take a real major, but it has to be a Science based one with harder classes.

We also have huge budget issues that would take a decade of success to slowly grow out of. But the real student thing hurts us.


We need a 10-15 year plan. Not a pick this coach because he has a traditional offense and "Hope" it works out in 2 years and maybe he can recruit 5% better than some other guy.

We have some natural assets and some drawbacks too. In a lot of cases, we make too much out of both of them. I'll use other schools as a comparison.
[I'm not picking on you MountainBuzzMan, you have great points here, and these bullet points are also other things in this list]

• Asset-We live in the middle of a recruiting hotbed of talent: Ga State is within 5 miles of us, so they do too. They have the majors like "education" and "criminal justice" and so on that we say attract athletes. They are not turning away 5* athletes. Majors may be A factor but they're not THE factor.
• Limitation-We aren't in the SEC: Clemson does OK with this, and so do FSU and Miami. Vandy is in the SEC, and so is Missouri, and they aren't pulling the same classes as the big fish in that conference. Judgement: Yeah, it's a factor, but it's not as big a factor as being a "cool" school to play for. We should focus on what we can control and be a place worth playing. (Collins tried to be the cools, but it looks like he had the wrong idea and the fun stuff got in the way of actually building a winning team).
• Limitation-We can't spend what other schools can spend: From what I understand, our players are mostly living in nice off-campus places and have nice cars to drive. We aren't spending what Texas A&M is spending, and we won't--unless we get a bunch of donors who can and will spend money like nothing we've ever seen, we won't keep up. But teams with fewer resources and less money than us do compete. We can field a really good team, maybe even a great team, but we're not going to follow Alabama's blueprint exactly because it's based on a different landscape.
• Asset-We have history, and our campus can be a great place to be: the problem is that players are too young to remember Bobby Ross or even much of the Gailey days. This is something that Cabrera CAN work on and make the campus a better place for all students. I'm not saying make students "soft", or turn us into a party school, but make sure the students are in a good place where they're not miserable and that there's no fun at all.

We need a 10-15 year plan. Not a pick this coach because he has a traditional offense and "Hope" it works out in 2 years and maybe he can recruit 5% better than some other guy.

I think this is right-on. One reason I do like coaches with schemes is that they have some passion about what they do. Leach was at least throwing a few (metaphorical) haymakers against UGA on Saturday. He coaches the little brother school in Mississippi, and he's at least fighting UGA in an unorthodox way. He didn't have much of a chance, but he looked better than most of their opponents.

 

[g0lftime]

We have some natural assets and some drawbacks too. In a lot of cases, we make too much out of both of them. I'll use other schools as a comparison.
[I'm not picking on you MountainBuzzMan, you have great points here, and these bullet points are also other things in this list]

• Asset-We live in the middle of a recruiting hotbed of talent: Ga State is within 5 miles of us, so they do too. They have the majors like "education" and "criminal justice" and so on that we say attract athletes. They are not turning away 5* athletes. Majors may be A factor but they're not THE factor.
• Limitation-We aren't in the SEC: Clemson does OK with this, and so do FSU and Miami. Vandy is in the SEC, and so is Missouri, and they aren't pulling the same classes as the big fish in that conference. Judgement: Yeah, it's a factor, but it's not as big a factor as being a "cool" school to play for. We should focus on what we can control and be a place worth playing. (Collins tried to be the cools, but it looks like he had the wrong idea and the fun stuff got in the way of actually building a winning team).
• Limitation-We can't spend what other schools can spend: From what I understand, our players are mostly living in nice off-campus places and have nice cars to drive. We aren't spending what Texas A&M is spending, and we won't--unless we get a bunch of donors who can and will spend money like nothing we've ever seen, we won't keep up. But teams with fewer resources and less money than us do compete. We can field a really good team, maybe even a great team, but we're not going to follow Alabama's blueprint exactly because it's based on a different landscape.
• Asset-We have history, and our campus can be a great place to be: the problem is that players are too young to remember Bobby Ross or even much of the Gailey days. This is something that Cabrera CAN work on and make the campus a better place for all students. I'm not saying make students "soft", or turn us into a party school, but make sure the students are in a good place where they're not miserable and that there's no fun at all.

I think this is right-on. One reason I do like coaches with schemes is that they have some passion about what they do. Leach was at least throwing a few (metaphorical) haymakers against UGA on Saturday. He coaches the little brother school in Mississippi, and he's at least fighting UGA in an unorthodox way. He didn't have much of a chance, but he looked better than most of their opponents.

I like the concept that at schools like Tech, it is best to run an offense that most others don't run. It requires special preparation and MissSt is a good example. The Citadel gave us a dose of lack of special preparation. If for example, BOB came in and tries to run what BAMA runs, it just won't work unless we have a 5* QB and a much, much better OL. We haven't had better personnel than anyone this year in the conference --more like equivalent to a few.
Maybe Chadwell offers that uniqueness, I don't know but there must be something he is doing there to be successful.
It is possible to turn things around pretty fast, e.g. Duke this year, with the right pick. One other correlation seems to be how good is the QB. Successful teams have good coaching and a really good QB. We have 2 good QB's to work with next year if they stay.