GT - competing at a higher level

[UgagSucks]

I want to start this post off by saying I do really like Paul Johnson. I think he's a great guy and I've truly enjoyed seeing him coach at GT. I understand his winning percentage is up there when compared to prior head coaches. He's done well - for the most part - for us.

Do I expect us to win the NC every year? No - I understand GT is not built for what it takes to do that and I'm fine with it. However, I do expect us to compete for the ACC and certainly our division almost every year. Losing 3 of the last 4 to Duke is really disheartening, among other things.

How do we get better? We all know it starts with recruiting. It is a struggle for us right now. With the system we run, whether we want to admit it or not, we are limited in the types of players we can target. It's an ugly truth. Offensively, we're never going to get "big time" QBs, running backs, receivers, etc to come play for us. It's just not going to happen. I ran into Lee Corso in the Orlando Int'l Airport about 4 years ago. We made some casual conversation about college football. He made that comment to me regarding recruiting and our system at GT. I didn't want to believe him at the time but it's the truth.

If we end up getting rid of Paul Johnson then no I don't have the magic answer for his replacement. I just feel that 10+ years into his tenure, it's time for something different.

 

[takethepoints]

When we have had the success we have had with the O we run, I doubt if this reasoning is correct. True, we have aren't going to get some of the players other schools do. That's because, in general, we don't want them. What we want are players who fit the system we run and can stay at Tech. We can get the players who fit for us; shoot, we've done pretty well for some time doing that. Attrition raised its ugly head this year, but that happens in every program.

Now, if this was a complaint about our defensive recruiting, I'd be more sympathetic. There we really have had problems, especially on the DL. We are trying hard (see the last two classes) to address this. Time will tell if that works out.

 

[jacobchbe]

All we need to do is switch to the NCAA spread offense everyone runs now and we will start getting 5 star recruits again. Oh wait..

 

[ATL1]

All we need to do is switch to the NCAA spread offense everyone runs now and we will start getting 5 star recruits again. Oh wait..

GT runs a spread offense... soooo

 

[UgagSucks]

When we have had the success we have had with the O we run, I doubt if this reasoning is correct. True, we have aren't going to get some of the players other schools do. That's because, in general, we don't want them. What we want are players who fit the system we run and can stay at Tech. We can get the players who fit for us; shoot, we've done pretty well for some time doing that. Attrition raised its ugly head this year, but that happens in every program.

Now, if this was a complaint about our defensive recruiting, I'd be more sympathetic. There we really have had problems, especially on the DL. We are trying hard (see the last two classes) to address this. Time will tell if that works out.

I feel like our offensive system has an indirect way of affecting our recruiting efforts on the defensive side of the ball. As odd as that sounds, I believe it does.


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[bke1984]

I feel like our offensive system has an indirect way of affecting our recruiting efforts on the defensive side of the ball. As odd as that sounds, I believe it does.


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There's probably some truth to this, for sure. I wonder if other coaches negatively recruit against us by saying they'll have to defend it in the spring and fall and risk getting injured, etc.

 

[Techster]

True, we have aren't going to get some of the players other schools do. That's because, in general, we don't want them. What we want are players who fit the system we run and can stay at Tech. We can get the players who fit for us; shoot, we've done pretty well for some time doing that. Attrition raised its ugly head this year, but that happens in every program.

Huh? You know that's patently false, right? DeShaun Watson, Justin Fields, Jameis Winston. You know what those 3 have in common? Not only were they the top QBs in their classes, but all 3 were offered by CPJ early in the process. CPJ put together an ENTIRE sample game plan around WR Cameron Sims for his visit at a summer camp a couple of years ago in order to get him interested in GT. He ended up at Bama. I could go on with these.

Point is, GT wants and offers a good portion of the same elite offensive recruits (which also includes OLs) that pretty much everyone else wants. The issue is, those elite offensive recruits do not want to play in this system.

 

[Techster]

I feel like our offensive system has an indirect way of affecting our recruiting efforts on the defensive side of the ball. As odd as that sounds, I believe it does.


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This is true. A coach that coaches at my old HS which produces MANY P5 level recruits and has also coached 2 guys that play for us now, has flat out said that. GT was recruiting a high level DT there but he didn't want any part of practicing against our offense that many times a year. Whether he was advised not to, was given that idea by negative recruiting, or that was his personal feelings given his other school choices (pretty much every school in the nation wanted him) I'm not sure, but that's what he told the coach.

That coach is also why I've said many time that if CPJ ran another offense, GT would be very high on the list of many elite offensive recruits from GA.

 

[GTfan4Life]

I think the issue is, those elite offensive recruits do not want to play at Georgia Tech. Let's be honest - we've had other systems for decades prior and recruiting has been basically the same with the exception of a limited number of outlier years.

 

[MWBATL]

I think the issue is, those elite offensive recruits do not want to play at Georgia Tech. Let's be honest - we've had other systems for decades prior and recruiting has been basically the same with the exception of a limited number of outlier years.

Not sure I understand your point. I agree our recruiting has been pretty much what it is now for many years prior...so what does the offensive system have to do with anything. We did not recruit well with a pro style under bailey and we haven't recruited well with a spread/flexbone offense under Johnson....not sure the system has anything to do with recruiting per se.

 

[Techster]

I think the issue is, those elite offensive recruits do not want to plat at Georgia Tech. Let's be honest - we've had other systems for decades prior and recruiting has been basically the same with the exception of a limited number of outlier years.

GT actually has a decent record of attracting top QBs. During the 90's, Donnie Davis and Quincy Carter both signed with GT (though QC opted to go the pro baseball route then get released to UGA). Donnie was the #1 Dual Threat QB, and #2 QB overall that year. QC was a top 5 QB his signing year.

During the 00's, GT was able to sign Demarius Bilbo, Josh Nesbitt, Steven Threat, and we had Sean Renfree committed before he switched to Duke due to the offense CPJ was bringing in.

Of course, then there's Charlie Dudish, perhaps one of the best QBs to ever play HS football in GA.

GT doesn't have the crazy history of stacking high profile QBs every year, but we do have a history of signing some of the top QBs in the nation...even as recently as a decade ago pre-CPJ.

 

[GTfan4Life]

Not sure I understand your point. I agree our recruiting has been pretty much what it is now for many years prior...so what does the offensive system have to do with anything. We did not recruit well with a pro style under bailey and we haven't recruited well with a spread/flexbone offense under Johnson....not sure the system has anything to do with recruiting per se.

That's what I am saying - it's not the system. Our recruiting has been about the same regardless. The previous poster said the system was what is keeping the elite recruits away.

 

[MWBATL]

That's what I am saying - it's not the system. Our recruiting has been about the same regardless. The previous poster said the system was what is keeping the elite recruits away.

Gotcha...we're in violent agreement.

 

[GTfan4Life]

@Techster I see where you are coming from. I just don't think the system is the primary hindrance to our overall recruiting. I think we are in an "arms war" where the competition is leveraging advantages we can not equal. The current star system that says an athlete is elite, is in many ways skewed towards (in QB terms specifically) pro-style measurables and skills. We are understaffed and underfunded. We do have the most challenging curricular restrictions of an P5 school currently fielding a football program. And our team plays in front of a rather fickle, mild, and sporadic-attending fan base in comparison to the rabid arenas of our top competitors. It seems the latter realities are why our overall recruiting has remained consistently disappointing in whatever system we are running at the time.

 

[tech_wreck47]

I want to start this post off by saying I do really like Paul Johnson. I think he's a great guy and I've truly enjoyed seeing him coach at GT. I understand his winning percentage is up there when compared to prior head coaches. He's done well - for the most part - for us.

Do I expect us to win the NC every year? No - I understand GT is not built for what it takes to do that and I'm fine with it. However, I do expect us to compete for the ACC and certainly our division almost every year. Losing 3 of the last 4 to Duke is really disheartening, among other things.

How do we get better? We all know it starts with recruiting. It is a struggle for us right now. With the system we run, whether we want to admit it or not, we are limited in the types of players we can target. It's an ugly truth. Offensively, we're never going to get "big time" QBs, running backs, receivers, etc to come play for us. It's just not going to happen. I ran into Lee Corso in the Orlando Int'l Airport about 4 years ago. We made some casual conversation about college football. He made that comment to me regarding recruiting and our system at GT. I didn't want to believe him at the time but it's the truth.

If we end up getting rid of Paul Johnson then no I don't have the magic answer for his replacement. I just feel that 10+ years into his tenure, it's time for something different.

CPJ is the man for GT. I've said it in other threads but what other coach in the country can you think of that takes an average of recruiting classes in the 50's and wins a New Years 6 bowl game and has made their conference championships game multiple times. We are way above the average school in terms of success imo, sometimes we forget there are over 100 teams in college football and only a handful or so are not consistently an up and down program. The issue with GT isn't CPJ but it's the resources. Some can complain that the "resources" comment is just an excuse, but if you truly stop and think about it, it's obviously not an excuse. If those who say it's an excuse had a similar situation as a manager at work that CPJ has you would not be happy with it. For instance, if you as a manager were told to match the sells of a competitor company but they had 10 more sales guys you would say that's not even reasonable. Hopefully the new uniforms, extra staff, and new locker room will start to drastically change things around GT. Let's say in 3 or 4 years nothing has changed and we have given time for these new things to settle in then I will start to agree.

 

[Jmonty71]

I want to start this post off by saying I do really like Paul Johnson. I think he's a great guy and I've truly enjoyed seeing him coach at GT. I understand his winning percentage is up there when compared to prior head coaches. He's done well - for the most part - for us.

Do I expect us to win the NC every year? No - I understand GT is not built for what it takes to do that and I'm fine with it. However, I do expect us to compete for the ACC and certainly our division almost every year. Losing 3 of the last 4 to Duke is really disheartening, among other things.

How do we get better? We all know it starts with recruiting. It is a struggle for us right now. With the system we run, whether we want to admit it or not, we are limited in the types of players we can target. It's an ugly truth. Offensively, we're never going to get "big time" QBs, running backs, receivers, etc to come play for us. It's just not going to happen. I ran into Lee Corso in the Orlando Int'l Airport about 4 years ago. We made some casual conversation about college football. He made that comment to me regarding recruiting and our system at GT. I didn't want to believe him at the time but it's the truth.

If we end up getting rid of Paul Johnson then no I don't have the magic answer for his replacement. I just feel that 10+ years into his tenure, it's time for something different.

I really don't have a great answer. Some sports writers, I know, say its our system. Some say our offense is old school and turns some recruits away. Some say, RBs should be lining at the door to play for CPJ. Heck....we ALL heard the crap about WR and GT.

Outside looking in? I think GT lacks funds or lacks concern on recruiting. I don't think GT has the number of scouts that other schools have. To me...it starts there. Roof has done decent. But, his niche seems to be with certain school areas. Which, he has done well. But, what opportunities are lost in other areas?

Just my 2 pennies

 

[GTFLETCH]

Huh? You know that's patently false, right? DeShaun Watson, Justin Fields, Jameis Winston. You know what those 3 have in common? Not only were they the top QBs in their classes, but all 3 were offered by CPJ early in the process. CPJ put together an ENTIRE sample game plan around WR Cameron Sims for his visit at a summer camp a couple of years ago in order to get him interested in GT. He ended up at Bama. I could go on with these.

Point is, GT wants and offers a good portion of the same elite offensive recruits (which also includes OLs) that pretty much everyone else wants. The issue is, those elite offensive recruits do not want to play in this system.

Or they do not want to go to an actual school.

If athletes come to Tech they must be willing to put more time into school than other Football programs. So you are correct about Coach Johnson recruiting top kids.

You are incorrect on why some choose to play elsewhere. It is our academic standards that have always hampered our recruiting efforts ( no matter the coach or scheme), to try to say it is anything else is just not healthy.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

The issue is, those elite offensive recruits do not want to play in this system.

Or they don’t want to take hard classes.
Or they like playing for huge crowds.
Or they like to have the fanciest facilities.
Or they like hot women.
Or they like a million other things factories provide that we can’t.

 

[Ash]

If our recruiting level stays the same when we run a different system than most, that tells me it's something else that is keeping us from recruiting at a higher level. It tells me if we change at OC it would not be the end of the world. We can compete at a level higher than we should be able to with with the right coaching staff.

What I feel has happened is that everyone around us has upped their game, and we are standing still. The ACC is more competitive and the SEC is still strong. It's not going to be easier competing in those leagues in the coming years. It will be harder.

 

[Techster]

Or they don’t want to take hard classes.
Or they like playing for huge crowds.
Or they like to have the fanciest facilities.
Or they like hot women.
Or they like a million other things factories provide that we can’t.

LOL. Keep telling yourself that, Cheese. One day you might actually believe it. You act like GT has nothing to offer SAs, yet we were able to win a national championship in 1990, go to 2 OBs in the last 8 years, played for 3 ACC Championships in the last 8 years.

Honest question: When was the last time you actually came to a home game and walked around the surrounding Midtown area? If you've been to a home game recently you'd know pretty much all your points are patently false. Except athletes like hot women...all straight men love hot women...but your implication is GT doesn't have "hot women". Again, you're terribly wrong because, well, just hang out at GT sometime and the surrounding area. Facilities? Again, when was the last time you were at GT? Are we on the level of Oregon, Texas, 'Bama, USC, Ohio State? NO, but 95% of the teams around the nation aren't either, and a lot of those teams don't seem to struggle to recruit elite offensive recruits. BTW, did you know GT was able to build an indoor practice facility in a landlocked extremely expensive area YEARS before UGA, and Miami still doesn't have an indoor facility.

Attendance? Read this: https://www.fromtherumbleseat.com/2015/7/1/8878515/attendance-where-does-georgia-tech-stand

BTW, GT can't complain about attendance and atmosphere when a SOCCER team just packed out our stadium for 9 straight games and made it one of the best playing home environments in all of sports.

How is it our defense is able to get elite guys on their side of the ball, and the only elite guys we've been able to sign on the offense side was JeT and Shamire in 10 years?

I mean, you must be ignoring the simple fact that elite recruits are on record saying they don't want to play in our offense. Heck, we've got guys actually sign with us who transfer out because "the triple offense is not for me..."