GT - competing at a higher level

[JorgeJonas]

The issue isn’t whether we’d attract more better players. Let’s stipulate that we would if we ran a more conventional offense.

The issue is whether we could recruit a critical mass of them to beat teams running substantially similar things. If the answer is yes, then making a change makes sense. But I think there’s enough evidence to make that proposition at least doubtful.

 

[g0lftime]

Okay so we get a little better if TM improves his reads and passing. What happens in 2019 because our coach doesn't play the backup QB in 2018. He wouldn't play LJ in the Duke game with 8 minutes to play and no chance to pull it out. Kid needs some PT. Not sure he will get it under PJ unless an injury. We aren't exactly blowing people out.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

LOL. Keep telling yourself that, Cheese. One day you might actually believe it. You act like GT has nothing to offer SAs, yet we were able to win a national championship in 1990, go to 2 OBs in the last 8 years, played for 3 ACC Championships in the last 8 years.

Honest question: When was the last time you actually came to a home game and walked around the surrounding Midtown area? If you've been to a home game recently you'd know pretty much all your points are patently false. Except athletes like hot women...all straight men love hot women...but your implication is GT doesn't have "hot women". Again, you're terribly wrong because, well, just hang out at GT sometime and the surrounding area. Facilities? Again, when was the last time you were at GT? Are we on the level of Oregon, Texas, 'Bama, USC, Ohio State? NO, but 95% of the teams around the nation aren't either, and a lot of those teams don't seem to struggle to recruit elite offensive recruits. BTW, did you know GT was able to build an indoor practice facility in a landlocked extremely expensive area YEARS before UGA, and Miami still doesn't have an indoor facility.

Attendance? Read this: https://www.fromtherumbleseat.com/2015/7/1/8878515/attendance-where-does-georgia-tech-stand

BTW, GT can't complain about attendance and atmosphere when a SOCCER team just packed out our stadium for 9 straight games and made it one of the best playing home environments in all of sports.

How is it our defense is able to get elite guys on their side of the ball, and the only elite guys we've been able to sign on the offense side was JeT and Shamire in 10 years?

I mean, you must be ignoring the simple fact that elite recruits are on record saying they don't want to play in our offense. Heck, we've got guys actually sign with us who transfer out because "the triple offense is not for me..."

Any teams used to support your argument that existed prior to flunkgate, probation, APR and a vastly improved ACC are irrelevant.

Recent success is not due to landing multiple blue chip athletes, though we've had a few. That success is due to having just enough of the right combination of ingredients all at the same time under the right coach in the right system. It's a recipe for success but much harder to sustain than having gobs and gobs of blue chip athletes like the factories.

Seriously, you are using a soccer match to prove your point? Talk about reaching.

JeT wanted to play qb above all else. outlier.
Shamire wanted the GT diploma above all else. outlier.
What else ya got?

I didn't say there were zero blue chip athletes interested in GT over the factories, just very, very few and for very specific reasons that are not the norm for blue chips.

Parker is a good example of a blue chip athlete that came to Tech but he has a different priority set than 90% of blue chip athletes. Also, he had a brother on the team before he got here. Let's see how many times we can duplicate that scenario.

We must continue to mine the diamonds from the rough better than the rest of the field. Gotsis was pure luck but he's an example of an NFL talent that escaped the factories. He's not a diamond in the rough, he's a needle in a haystack. How many needles can we continue to find and put together enough of them on one team at the same time? Hmmm....

 

[Techster]

The issue isn’t whether we’d attract more better players. Let’s stipulate that we would if we ran a more conventional offense.

The issue is whether we could recruit a critical mass of them to beat teams running substantially similar things. If the answer is yes, then making a change makes sense. But I think there’s enough evidence to make that proposition at least doubtful.

Really, all of this discussion is moot because it's the offense we have to deal with now.

The reality is that we're never going to know until CPJ leaves...which will happen one day. That day is coming sooner rather than later. We'll see then.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Okay so we get a little better if TM improves his reads and passing. What happens in 2019 because our coach doesn't play the backup QB in 2018. He wouldn't play LJ in the Duke game with 8 minutes to play and no chance to pull it out. Kid needs some PT. Not sure he will get it under PJ unless an injury. We aren't exactly blowing people out.

There's something you're not considering in that decision. We had another game the next week against a top 5 opponent and we needed a confident starting qb to have any chance of pulling off the upset. Maybe, just maybe, coach was trying to allow TM to work through adversity and have some success in the waining minutes rather than killing his self confidence with a benching. Yes, it didn't work out that way, but you don't know that with 7 minutes remaining. The game was out of reach, but salvaging TM wasn't.

 

[Techster]

Seriously, you are using a soccer match to prove your point? Talk about reaching.

JeT wanted to play qb above all else. outlier.
Shamire wanted the GT diploma above all else. outlier.
What else ya got?

Your first point about soccer...don't show your ignorance. Anyone who dismisses something because it's just soccer is showing their ignorance. If anything, it just shows how poor of a product GT football has become to sidewalk fans when a brand new soccer team is able to sell out our stadium for 9 STRAIGHT games....not just "a match". The team had no prior history, and "it's just soccer", right? Seriously, Cheese, you're smarter than that.

Second. Thanks for proving my point. 2 "elite" offensive guys in 10 years. One because no one else wanted him at QB, and the other because he fell in love with our academics, and as we know 4 years later, his love for learning far outweighed his love for football. Yet, during that time we've been able to land multiple "elite" defenders on the defensive side of the ball. Why isn't the offensive recruiting keeping up with the defensive side of recruiting? That's across 3 defensive coordinators as well. Sure, Cheese, our offense doesn't hinder recruiting...

What are you even trying to debate now?

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Your first point about soccer...don't show your ignorance. Anyone who dismisses something because it's just soccer is showing their ignorance. If anything, it just shows how poor of a product GT football has become to sidewalk fans when a brand new soccer team is able to sell out our stadium for 9 STRAIGHT games....not just "a match". The team had no prior history, and "it's just soccer", right? Seriously, Cheese, you're smarter than that.

Second. Thanks for proving my point. 2 "elite" offensive guys in 10 years. One because no one else wanted him at QB, and the other because he fell in love with our academics, and as we know 4 years later, his love for learning far outweighed his love for football. Yet, during that time we've been able to land multiple "elite" defenders on the defensive side of the ball. Why isn't the offensive recruiting keeping up with the defensive side of recruiting? That's across 3 defensive coordinators as well. Sure, Cheese, our offense doesn't hinder recruiting...

What are you even trying to debate now?

Don't show your ignorance T. Saying we should sell out BDS because a pro soccer team did is ludicrous. Completely different fan base that dwarfs ours. Thousands of soccer fans in Atlanta with ONE team in town to root for compared to thousands of college football fans in town all fiercely tied to schools they either attended or rooted ed for before moving to Atl not to mention the pervasive presence of Uga in every aspect of life in Atlanta.

In addition to that, new pro sports franchises are wildly popular in their home cities at first. I should know, I live in Jacksonville.

 

[iceeater1969]

Any one that thinks shamire got any where close to being an elite line man in our system. ...well I better not say. He forked up any chance of being elite. After 14 the dc designed defenses to put no one near him which negated his massive size advantage. The two d t leaving and marshall (ot) being injured required Will B to loose weight and play both og and o t as stick.
If sham had worked 1/2 as hard at training *** others,he could have been great. Too bad. From all accounts he is a good kid.

 

[B Lifsey]

If I remember right, after first soccer game they closed off all upper decks so a "sell out" wasn't really a full/packed stadium. Again, that is just what I recalling which could be incorrect.

 

[Techster]

Don't show your ignorance T. Saying we should sell out BDS because a pro soccer team did is ludicrous. Completely different fan base that dwarfs ours. Thousands of soccer fans in Atlanta with ONE team in town to root for compared to thousands of college football fans in town all fiercely tied to schools they either attended or rooted ed for before moving to Atl not to mention the pervasive presence of Uga in every aspect of life in Atlanta.

Wait, but it's just soccer, right? How is it a team with literally ZERO history able to manufacture and organize the atmosphere and crowd participation while GT, playing football since the 1890's, has a hard time getting our fans to even stand up for a good play? Atl United had absolutely no history, yet not no only did they fill up BDS (and GT campus with tailgaters and supporters just wanting to be part of the atmosphere), they went on to fill up a 70K Mercedes Benz stadium. The atmosphere of GT games is like bingo nights at a retirement home compared to the atmosphere of Atl United games. It's looked down upon to even sit down during ATLU games. How awesome is this...and it was at EVERY game:



The fact of the matter is, GT football just isn't putting out a product that attracts sidewalk fans...heck, there are quite a few GT fans that quit attending games. If you want to see what a good product can do, just look no further than GT basketball. Our attendance was a wasteland with Brian Gregory as our head coach. But with Pastner and his brand of basketball, attendance is making a comeback, and a lot of the fans coming back aren't necessarily just GT fans. They're sports fans that just want to see an entertaining product. Is it just a coincidence GT has great attendance against good team?

 

[Techster]

If I remember right, after first soccer game they closed off all upper decks so a "sell out" wasn't really a full/packed stadium. Again, that is just what I recalling which could be incorrect.

That's correct. Upper North was closed off due to construction, not because Atl United wanted it closed off to puff up attendance.

 

[g0lftime]

You take out your starter when no chance to win late in the game if for no other reason to avoid injury the week before your rival. TM has a lot of confidence in his ability. Sometimes it looks like he puts too much of the team offense on himself to make a play.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Wait, but it's just soccer, right? How is it a team with literally ZERO history able to manufacture and organize the atmosphere and crowd participation while GT, playing football since the 1890's, has a hard time getting our fans to even stand up for a good play? Atl United had absolutely no history, yet not no only did they fill up BDS (and GT campus with tailgaters and supporters just wanting to be part of the atmosphere), they went on to fill up a 70K Mercedes Benz stadium. The atmosphere of GT games is like bingo nights at a retirement home compared to the atmosphere of Atl United games. It's looked down upon to even sit down during ATLU games. How awesome is this...and it was at EVERY game:



The fact of the matter is, GT football just isn't putting out a product that attracts sidewalk fans...heck, there are quite a few GT fans that quit attending games. If you want to see what a good product can do, just look no further than GT basketball. Our attendance was a wasteland with Brian Gregory as our head coach. But with Pastner and his brand of basketball, attendance is making a comeback, and a lot of the fans coming back aren't necessarily just GT fans. They're sports fans that just want to see an entertaining product. Is it just a coincidence GT has great attendance against good team?

You do know and apple from an orange don't you? What if a monster truck rally or a Rolling Stones concert filled BDS??? Same as soccer, completely and utterly irrelevant!

 

[Techster]

You do know and apple from an orange don't you? What if a monster truck rally or a Rolling Stones concert filled BDS??? Same as soccer, completely and utterly irrelevant!

But it's just soccer...

 

[dressedcheeseside]

But it's just soccer...

I think you got mis-affended somewhere along the line. I never said "just soccer" and never meant to denigrate the sport or it's fans. My point is that it's not a good basis for comparison - but not because it was soccer.

Btw, how in the hell did the US not make the World Cup?

 

[IM79]

Wait, but it's just soccer, right? How is it a team with literally ZERO history able to manufacture and organize the atmosphere and crowd participation while GT, playing football since the 1890's, has a hard time getting our fans to even stand up for a good play? Atl United had absolutely no history, yet not no only did they fill up BDS (and GT campus with tailgaters and supporters just wanting to be part of the atmosphere), they went on to fill up a 70K Mercedes Benz stadium. The atmosphere of GT games is like bingo nights at a retirement home compared to the atmosphere of Atl United games. It's looked down upon to even sit down during ATLU games. How awesome is this...and it was at EVERY game:

Maybe it's the age of the fans attending? I bet most of the fans for Tech games are old timers too tired to stand up. And I bet the age of ATLU fans is much younger and it didn't take years of contributing to an AA fund for the right to get good tickets. The younger fans like to stand up, raise hell and party. Did they sell beer to these fans in the whole stadium?

 

[Techster]

Btw, how in the hell did the US not make the World Cup?

That's an entire thread itself. Don't get me started...

 

[dressedcheeseside]

That's an entire thread itself. Don't get me started...

Better start one on the soccer board... oh wait...

 

[Techster]

Maybe it's the age of the fans attending? I bet most of the fans for Tech games are old timers too tired to stand up. And I bet the age of ATLU fans is much younger and it didn't take years of contributing to an AA fund for the right to get good tickets. The younger fans like to stand up, raise hell and party. Did they sell beer to these fans in the whole stadium?

There was definitely an age disparity between Atl United and GT games. Maybe GT needs to start marketing broadly across the spectrum of fans as opposed to narrowly focusing on our alumni. I remember back in 2009, when we were running roughshod across the ACC, a good portion of the fans attending GT games were not GT alumni.

And yes, Atl United games have beer sales. In fact, one of the biggest complaints about BDS is fans weren't getting their beers fast enough. LOL.

 

[Boxer223]

61. Georgia Tech, $17.38 million
Paul Johnson uses the triple-option as a talent equalizer and it helps him deal with a financial inequality as well. Georgia Tech has the second-smallest athletic budget in the country, though it does devote a good chunk of it to football. Only Wake Forest has less football funding in the ACC.

With this and our facilities being sub-par (putting it nicely) we can't recruit and until this improves and the school invests more into the program we will not compete at a higher level, Johnson has done a great job with what he has to work with.