Great breakdown of Geoff Collins defensive schemes

[smathis30]

Did you read my post? I am guessing you skimmed it. My exact quote: "Granted, some of the pre-rankings guys would have probably been even higher,..."

That being said, even given the stipulation that they were rated high, we don't have an accurate way to compare the disparate ratings systems used.

None of this, however, changes the point. The assertion was that CPJ tanked recruiting, when in fact, LB recruiting actually increased on a per recruit rating under his tenure.

But you're driving the same narrative, so these facts probably won't slow you down...

In his defense, the place you got rankings from, 247, wasn't even 247 sports in 2005. It didn't exist at all in fact. It wasnt even made till 2010. 247 became the marquee site in 247 after CBS invested in it and changed its name from BamaOnline to what we know now. Anything that uses anything but rivals from 2000s is just wrong. Those could Placeholders, but fact of the matter is 247 is horrifically unreliable back then as it literally didn't exist. Recruiting scores have also slowly increased over time

 

[kg01]

Bowers-Wilkinson was 4 star. Darryl Smith was a 3 star, but he was rated like 20-something best LB in the country. It was a big deal when we got him because the Dwags wanted him.

Didn't we get Darryl Robertson (I think I'm getting his name wrong) as a 4-star DL out of LA that year too? Man, I hope those times are returning.

 

[Madison Grant]

I don't think recruicting the LB's was a big gap... I think it was mainly the development of those guys...

Chan and Tenuta did a good job of finding and developing Wheeler and Guyton.

 

[Madison Grant]

Didn't we get Darryl Robertson (I think I'm getting his name wrong) as a 4-star DL out of LA that year too? Man, I hope those times are returning.

Robertson was from Jonesboro. I don't remember if he was 3 or 4 star, but we poached him from FSU.

 

[knoxjacket]

For purposes of comparison, here are the available rankings for the LBs that were listed, per 247.

Sedric Griffin 3* 0.8111
Brad Jefferson 3* 0.8545
Gary Guyton 2* 0.7889
Philip Wheeler 3* 0.8000
KaMichael Hall 3* 0.8333
Gerris Wilkinson Pre-rankings
Key Fox Pre-rankings
Daryl Smith Pre-rankings
Recardo Wimbush Pre-rankings
Matt Miller Pre-rankings
Matt Uremovich Pre-rankings
Delaunta Cameron Pre-rankings
Ron Rogers Pre-rankings
Keith Brooking Pre-rankings

Here are some CPJ LB recruits

Quayshawn Nealy 3* 0.8590
Jeremiah Attaochu 3*0.8510
Brandon Watts 3* 0.8622
Julian Burnett 3* 0.8288
Jabari Hunt-Days 3* 0.8797
Justice Dingle 3* 0.8770
Bruce Jordan-Swilling 4* 0.9182
Victor Alexander 3* 0.8650

The data does not support your narrative. The LBs we recruited were actually ranked higher out of HS than most of the ones listed. Granted, some of the pre-rankings guys would have probably been even higher, but the point remains. The falloff wasn't in recruiting. We can argue that player development of LBs was not ideal, and I would also agree that your assertion of the changing DCs hurt development as well. That was not a CPJ problem though. Development of the defensive players falls on the DC.

Outside of the high fours and fives I think recruiting rankings are dubious. Comparing across eras is also dubious. Rankings have been inflated.

A good example of the inflation would be that Guyton was allegedly the 59th best OLB as a recruit with that score. Nealy was 56th with his score and Watts 57th with his. Philip Wheeler was 51st with a lower score than Nealy or Watts. Kamichael Hall was the 33rd rated ILB with that score.

Regardless either CPJ and staff were terrible at identifying talent or terrible at developing it at LB and on the DL.

 

[knoxjacket]

Didn't we get Darryl Robertson (I think I'm getting his name wrong) as a 4-star DL out of LA that year too? Man, I hope those times are returning.

Darryl Richard was the DL from LA. Both those guys were major coups.

 

[kg01]

Robertson was from Jonesboro. I don't remember if he was 3 or 4 star, but we poached him from FSU.

I'm thinking of Darryl Richard.

 

[Madison Grant]

I'm thinking of Darryl Richard.

Yesh, I think he was 3 on Rivals and 4 on Scout maybe. LSU and Miami had offered. He had some crazy high SAT score, and was the kind of kid Stanford targets.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Yesh, I think he was 3 on Rivals and 4 on Scout maybe. LSU and Miami had offered. He had some crazy high SAT score, and was the kind of kid Stanford targets.

Darryl Richard was amazingly underevaluated coming out of HS. He should have been high 4* IMO. He played DL both at GT and in the pros though, not LB. Regardless, he's the kind of DT we rarely get that we desperately need.

 

[684Bee]

Darryl Richard was amazingly underevaluated coming out of HS. He should have been high 4* IMO. He played DL both at GT and in the pros though, not LB. Regardless, he's the kind of DT we rarely get that we desperately need.

I’d say Vance Walker turned out to be as good. Not nearly as highly regarded when recruited.

 

[Boaty1]

Did you read my post? I am guessing you skimmed it. My exact quote: "Granted, some of the pre-rankings guys would have probably been even higher,..."

That being said, even given the stipulation that they were rated high, we don't have an accurate way to compare the disparate ratings systems used.

None of this, however, changes the point. The assertion was that CPJ tanked recruiting, when in fact, LB recruiting actually increased on a per recruit rating under his tenure.

But you're driving the same narrative, so these facts probably won't slow you down...

Lol. Maybe you are skimming your own post. My response was necessary because the inference you made above.

I really don't want to go round and circle here but I believe this is crucial. O'Leary set the standard for GT as far as recruiting goes. You seem to embrace the belief that there is not much more Johnson could do in terms of recruiting. And maybe you are correct. Maybe things have changed a THAT much since the times the BIG Bee was roaming the sidelines. But quotes like the bolded above are simply mistaken. Recruiting did not improve in any way under Johnson when comparing him to O'Leary. Which is what we are doing in this thread when we start talking about many of the players listed.

 

[Boaty1]

I don't think recruicting the LB's was a big gap... I think it was mainly the development of those guys...

This is just wrong. Players like Key Fox, Daryl Smith, Hobie Holiday, Recardo Wimbush & Matt Miller were wanted by every school in the southeast. With all due respect to the players that played this position under Johnson none were coveted as many schools as the guys listed above were. That's a fact whether you choose to believe it or not.

 

[Boaty1]

Chan and Tenuta did a good job of finding and developing Wheeler and Guyton.

While I agree they did a good job developing players, we still recruited a higher caliber athlete than we have been recently. Philip Wheller chose us over Bama and Auburn for example.

 

[Natehosch]

This is just wrong. Players like Key Fox, Daryl Smith, Hobie Holiday, Recardo Wimbush & Matt Miller were wanted by every school in the southeast. With all due respect to the players that played this position under Johnson none were coveted as many schools as the guys listed above were. That's a fact whether you choose to believe it or not.

Agreed, But I was Referring to the linebackers under Gailey . CGC was there when those buys were being recruited.

 

[Natehosch]

While I agree they did a good job developing players, we still recruited a higher caliber athlete than we have been recently. Philip Wheller chose us over Bama and Auburn for example.

Keep in Mind that Bama was in the Shula years then...

 

[Natehosch]

I believe we can recruit better players with CGC... at a variety of positions. CPJ had a different style of player.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Lol. Maybe you are skimming your own post. My response was necessary because the inference you made above.

I really don't want to go round and circle here but I believe this is crucial. O'Leary set the standard for GT as far as recruiting goes. You seem to embrace the belief that there is not much more Johnson could do in terms of recruiting. And maybe you are correct. Maybe things have changed a THAT much since the times the BIG Bee was roaming the sidelines. But quotes like the bolded above are simply mistaken. Recruiting did not improve in any way under Johnson when comparing him to O'Leary. Which is what we are doing in this thread when we start talking about many of the players listed.

So much narrative, so few facts.

Why does O'Leary set the standard? What is that standard? How is it verifiable? Just pure narrative on your part.

Things have indeed changed that much. You cannot refute that GT ranks 61st out of 65 P5 teams in football spending, yet instead you blame a coach for recruiting when it's a known fact that that coach was understaffed for the first 9+ years of his tenure.

Also, the statement I made about LB recruiting improving on a player rating standpoint under CPJ is verifiably true. Whether it's less than the arbitrary numbers you assign to pre-ranked GOL recruits matters not, it improved under CPJ from what it was under the previous coach who is the only one we have hard data on.

If you want to deal in innuendo and supposition, then keep driving your narrative. The facts are incontrovertible and speak to themselves.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I believe we can recruit better players with CGC... at a variety of positions. CPJ had a different style of player.

I KNOW we will recruit better under CGC, at least as recruiting rankings are concerned. The question will be will we improve recruiting sufficiently to be able to compete with factories running similar schemes with superior talent. That's the unknown right now. We hired one of the two best options on the table in this regard, and I fully support CGC. I hope we can get back into the top 25-30 in recruiting, because I don't know if just making the top 40 will be good enough.

 

[Lavoisier]

I'm not sure that's a Collins defense in that GIF. I think #6 who gets that sack is Dante Fowler who declared for the draft the same year Muschamp was fired.

 

[year_of_the_swarm]

4-2-5 is probably best for most college football teams unless you can get significant linebacker talent.

3-4 is the most difficult scheme to recruit for. Or at least that is what I have read.