Game Thread - ND, 1/15/2020

[sidewalkGTfan]

Notre Dame barely lost a bunch of games including against Louisville. They’ll make the tournament. What sucks is just that they had one of their better games all season last night. We were basically tied at the half, then shot 70% in the second half but lost. What else can you do?

Play better defense the last 10 minutes of the game.
Don't turn the ball over.
Don't go in to a shell, offensively, the last 4 minutes of the game.

These are things, mostly the last two, we've been prone to do all season and why we lose game like we did last night.

 

[H-Wade]

I keep seeing “drop the appeal”. I’ve seen no evidence in the 21st century that the NCAA rewards that kind of behavior or is willing to meet us halfway unless we fight tooth and nail on every point.
Dropping the appeal would probably be taken as signs of weakness, guilt, and acceptance that their sanctions are fair.
Regarding this game, we really ought to have a winning record at home. SMH

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You're probably right, I think people are just trying to find any way to have optimism about the future so if that was a realistic possibility it'd be the smart thing to do. We all know the way GT sports has been going lately, we will miss the tourney this year and they won't decide on the appeal until after the year and ban us next year when we actually have a NCAA team for the 1st time in 10+ years. I guess we are just cursed.

 

[Silk3]

Whens the last time we won a game we rlly rlly needed to win?
Its so frustrating watching us score 25 points every first half and shoot brick after brick. Jose really needs to stop strumming the guitar after every 3. You needa be shooting at least 40% from deep to be doing that not in the 20s lmao.

 

[lv20gt]

I keep seeing “drop the appeal”. I’ve seen no evidence in the 21st century that the NCAA rewards that kind of behavior or is willing to meet us halfway unless we fight tooth and nail on every point.

I've wondered where there is prescient for an appealing school to drop the appeal before it is ruled on. It wouldn't surprise me but I hadn't heard of it.

Dropping the appeal would probably be taken as signs of weakness, guilt, and acceptance that their sanctions are fair.

That would actually be fine if it let us use this year as the year we aren't eligible for post season play. The bigger problem is that we currently have 13 scholarships allocated for next year so that would become an issue if nobody wants to transfer.

 

[GTJake]

Frustrating is also the word for me ... my optimism is about gone for this season and for Pastner.
In-a-nutshell my take of this team is ... a team that has ACC caliber talent that at times on offense looks like they have never played a game together.
And unfortunately it's at the most critical times when we need a quality possession.

 

[YlJacket]

Ivy has this right - our guards got beat last night. Both by the eye test and stat sheet. Their guards made plays, made shots and our guards with some notable exceptions don't. Goodwin can and did catch and go up to shoot a 3 with the defender right there. DeVoe for all his skills doesn't have the explosion to do that. He needs an open generally set shot 3. Gibbs and Hubb can create their own shot off that high screen or only with a couple of dribbles to explode over the defender. Neither Jose or Bubba can really do that. Saw some times where Bubba or Jose created a shot but no where near enough. Usher can be a great energy guy but he isn't going to move the needle on the offensive end.

Last night Banks generally cancelled out Mooney - though I thought Mooney did an exceptional job hedging the screens - and Moses was a net contributor to GT over Durham. End of the day their guards made plays, made shots and ours didn't. And I am not sure if they are athletic/explosive enough to be the top of the ACC backcourt that CJP keeps touting them as.

 

[awbuzz]

Getting to the point where Usher shouldn’t be trying 3 pointers either. His value lies elsewhere.

... loosing the dribble repeatedly????
Okay, he can slash to the basket well, just needs to stay in control.

 

[lv20gt]

Last night Banks generally cancelled out Mooney - though I thought Mooney did an exceptional job hedging the screens - and Moses was a net contributor to GT over Durham. End of the day their guards made plays, made shots and ours didn't. And I am not sure if they are athletic/explosive enough to be the top of the ACC backcourt that CJP keeps touting them as.

Devoe was 9 of 15 for 22 and 8 rebounds. Now 4 of those were against the Ole defense ND was playing at the end but even so 7 of 13 for 18 points is really good. He's shown the ability to score very well both off of open 3s, but also off the drive. Devo has the problem of being too selective on his 3s. He's such a good shooter that he needs to force the issue a bit more instead of waiting until wide open looks. Jose played well, 9 assists to 3 turnovers but he was a bit too much into the facilitator mode and not enough in the scoring mode. He's actually leading the ACC in assists in conference play and has shown the ability to score. It's not so much athleticism but he's crafty and understands positioning. He does need to recognize our need for him to score as well as facilitate for others because that hurt us at times yesterday. The problem with them yesterday was on the other end where they just got beat, especially Mike. Jose is generally a pretty good defender, but it wasn't his best day yesterday and I think part of that was he was going up against a senior guard in Gibbs that didn't let Jose get to him. Mike just got exploited and it looked to me like he let his emotions get to him a bit, which is strange for him.

Also, ND's guards made more plays but I think you're underselling the games Jose and Mike had. It wasn't that they were completely outplayed, but rather ND's guards made one or two more plays.

I do think they have the potential to be a top of the ACC backcourt. Jose is already one of the best facilitating PGs in the ACC and Mike's issue is more his mentality and aggressiveness than skill. The biggest issue we have now imo is at the 3. Usher does some good things and his energy is helpful but he's not currently a threat from 3, and he's not finishing his drives consistently enough (I hope this is more from being too hyped up and the offseason will help him calm down some). That's putting a lot of pressure on Jose to both facilitate and score at a high level, which while he is capable of is a lot. Furthermore, Moore isn't getting much time, for whatever reason, which is leading us to playing a 3 guard lineup a good bit which really puts Bubba in a bad spot defensively.

 

[grandpa jacket]

Not with this coach. Get this guy tf outta here asap TStan. Recruiting sucks, gameplay sucks...there’s nothing at all that gives anyone any sort of positive outlook going forward. Shoulda been fired last year, enough is enough.

Totally agree

 

[Buzzbomb]

Not with this coach. Get this guy tf outta here asap TStan. Recruiting sucks, gameplay sucks...there’s nothing at all that gives anyone any sort of positive outlook going forward. Shoulda been fired last year, enough is enough.

Some of us had those thoughts last year, and knew he was in over his head. I tried to stay quiet because of his contract extension after that COTY award from year 1, w/ CBGs players. Then he had a good 3 man class this Fall, although the probation junk sort of offset the accomplishment. Getting older, we had to imagine GT would be better than this record. Seems the coaching and motivating/preparedness are up and down. Naturally, the players factor into these outcomes through their performance.

 

[gtpi]

youngest coach in the acc


REVISED ACC HEAD COACHING ROSTER
Based On Age As Of November 1, 2019
Coach Birthdate Age Home State Yrs at School
Jim Christian, BC February 6, 1965 54 New York 6
Brad Brownell, C November 15, 1968 48 Indiana 10
Mike Krzyzewski, D February 13, 1947 72 Illinois 40
Leonard Hamilton, FS August 4, 1948 71 North Carolina 18
Josh Pastner, GT September 26, 1977 42 West Virginia 4
Chris Mack, UL December 30, 1969 48 Ohio 2
Jim Larranaga, Mi October 2, 1949 70 New York 9
Roy Williams, NC August 1, 1950 69 North Carolina 17
Kevin Keatts, NCS July 28, 1972 47 Virginia 3
Mike Brey, ND March 22, 1959 60 Maryland 20
Jeff Capel, PU February 12, 1975 44 North Carolina 2
Jim Boeheim, SU November 17, 1944 74 New York 44
Tony Bennett, V June 1, 1969 50 Wisconsin 11
Mike Young, VT May 1, 1963 56 Virginia 1
Danny Manning, WF May 17, 1966 53 Mississippi

 

[gte447f]

Our guards didnt totally outplayed last night, they just got outplayed down the stretch in the last 10 minutes of the second half. Jose had 9 assists, a career high. Devoe scored 22 and had 8 rebounds. ND’s #23 (Goodwin?) was on fire in the first half but Gibbs and Huff didn’t do anything in the first half (8 points combined and several bad shots and turnovers). It was late in the second half that Gibbs and Huff realized they could out athlete Mike and Jose and that was the difference in the game.

In our screen and roll game, Jose is doing well finding our bigs going to the basket. However, he needs to be a little less predictable. He almost always goes to the right side of the lane and he almost always looks for the big instead of looking to score some also. He needs to mix things up a little more. Otherwise, by the ends of games, defenses start to overplay the entry pass to the big and Jose ends up forcing it and turning the ball over.

 

[THWG16]

We'll win Saturday and everyone will start speculation again and penciling in wins down the stretch until the team kicks the stool out from under us again on a game they should've won.

 

[Buzzbomb]

We'll win Saturday and everyone will start speculation again and penciling in wins down the stretch until the team kicks the stool out from under us again on a game they should've won.

Yeah, I’m worried about Morehouse dunking us down into the Atlanta Sewer System.

 

[YlJacket]

Devoe was 9 of 15 for 22 and 8 rebounds. Now 4 of those were against the Ole defense ND was playing at the end but even so 7 of 13 for 18 points is really good. He's shown the ability to score very well both off of open 3s, but also off the drive. Devo has the problem of being too selective on his 3s. He's such a good shooter that he needs to force the issue a bit more instead of waiting until wide open looks. Jose played well, 9 assists to 3 turnovers but he was a bit too much into the facilitator mode and not enough in the scoring mode. He's actually leading the ACC in assists in conference play and has shown the ability to score. It's not so much athleticism but he's crafty and understands positioning. He does need to recognize our need for him to score as well as facilitate for others because that hurt us at times yesterday. The problem with them yesterday was on the other end where they just got beat, especially Mike. Jose is generally a pretty good defender, but it wasn't his best day yesterday and I think part of that was he was going up against a senior guard in Gibbs that didn't let Jose get to him. Mike just got exploited and it looked to me like he let his emotions get to him a bit, which is strange for him.

Also, ND's guards made more plays but I think you're underselling the games Jose and Mike had. It wasn't that they were completely outplayed, but rather ND's guards made one or two more plays.

I do think they have the potential to be a top of the ACC backcourt. Jose is already one of the best facilitating PGs in the ACC and Mike's issue is more his mentality and aggressiveness than skill. The biggest issue we have now imo is at the 3. Usher does some good things and his energy is helpful but he's not currently a threat from 3, and he's not finishing his drives consistently enough (I hope this is more from being too hyped up and the offseason will help him calm down some). That's putting a lot of pressure on Jose to both facilitate and score at a high level, which while he is capable of is a lot. Furthermore, Moore isn't getting much time, for whatever reason, which is leading us to playing a 3 guard lineup a good bit which really puts Bubba in a bad spot defensively.

Dang Ivy - I even start out saying "Ivy was right" and you still come after me

I don't think I was saying we were "completely outplayed" and the game was reasonably close so I don't think that was the case. But when you look at their three primary guards they combined for 57 points while our 3 primary guards combined for 36. That's why I agreed with you that we lost that game due to guard play - even though there are some good things to point out with our guard play last night.

The key part of my question about whether Jose/DeVoe can be a top of the ACC guard combo is what has been discussed here. Are they athletic/explosive enough to create their own shot and make contested shots - plus play strong D against other explosive guards. And at this point I just don't see it. DeVoe is highly skilled and a good shot, Jose is uber competitive and a nice pass first guard - but they were outplayed by guys last night that simply took them off the dribble and exploded to take (and make) contested mid range and 3 point shots. And this wasn't what I would consider a top of the ACC back court - good/solid but not the top.

We both agree (at least I think we do) that DeVoe generally only takes very open 3 point shots with that set shot of his. Beyond that I wouldn't argue that he needs to be more aggressive with the shot - I just think he can't explode to take a contested shot like what we saw last night. He can't come off a pick or off a cut and simply explode into a shot right in front of a defender like we saw last night. Jose can't get the ball and take 2 dribbles to create a sliver of space and explode to take a contested jumper - again like we saw last night. IMHO that is the difference in a lot of close games come crunch time.

I actually don't think our view of these guards is that different - I just don't think they can become a top of the ACC duo without the athleticism/explosion to play with the group we saw last night. Come crunch time they got out athleted and it wasn't the only time.

 

[lv20gt]

Dang Ivy - I even start out saying "Ivy was right" and you still come after me

That wasn't really my intent for most of the post. Probably not a great place to put that one sentence paragraph though lol. I was really more just aiming for that point about being the top guard combo in the ACC.

I don't think I was saying we were "completely outplayed" and the game was reasonably close so I don't think that was the case. But when you look at their three primary guards they combined for 57 points while our 3 primary guards combined for 36. That's why I agreed with you that we lost that game due to guard play - even though there are some good things to point out with our guard play last night.

I think that depends on who you classify as their primary guards. Pfluger is a guard who played 32 minutes and started.... But I think you pretty much nailed the player that made the difference. Goodwin outplayed either Usher or Bubba and ultimately I think that was the difference from a match up standpoint. I was focusing on our guard play as the reason we lost from the standpoint of I thought defense from Mike and Jose was the area that we could have realistically done better but didn't. It wasn't really that I thought they got outplayed but rather they didn't play as well as they could, or usually do, on the defensive end. As is I still think they pretty much played even with Hubb and Gibbs, with the major difference being Jose doing more facilitating others than creating for himself. We really needed one of either Usher or Bubba to step up, or even Cole who had a couple of good attempts and didn't capitalize (other than 2 FTs on what could have been an and 1 imo).

The key part of my question about whether Jose/DeVoe can be a top of the ACC guard combo is what has been discussed here. Are they athletic/explosive enough to create their own shot and make contested shots - plus play strong D against other explosive guards. And at this point I just don't see it. DeVoe is highly skilled and a good shot, Jose is uber competitive and a nice pass first guard - but they were outplayed by guys last night that simply took them off the dribble and exploded to take (and make) contested mid range and 3 point shots. And this wasn't what I would consider a top of the ACC back court - good/solid but not the top.

I agree they aren't the most explosive duo, but I'm not convinced that it is necessary for them to have that to be a top backcourt. Jose is leading all players in assists in conference play and is also chipping in nearly 13 points a game. Mike is top 20 in scoring and that include quite a few players who aren't back court players.

Which back courts would you put over Mike/Jose?

Duke and NCSU are the only ones I see as having a real argument.

Also, I think you are underselling Gibbs and Hubb. They are both top 5 in the ACC in scoring in conference games at about 18 a game and top 10 in assists. They are a damn good back court duo, and again I don't really think they outplayed Jose and Mike. I think all 4 played some bad defense but really good offense.

Anyways, there are some good young back courts in the ACC (Cuse and VT come to mind) and some teams will be adding some studs, but the ACC will also be losing quite a lot of good guards just to graduation. I think going into next year there will be a very strong argument that we'll have one of the best returning back courts along with Boeheim and Girard at Cuse and VT with Nolley Radgord and Alleyne. The big question is can we get more out of the 3 spot, and can we get more bench production, because that's where we are in desperate need.

 

[gtpi]

That wasn't really my intent for most of the post. Probably not a great place to put that one sentence paragraph though lol. I was really more just aiming for that point about being the top guard combo in the ACC.



I think that depends on who you classify as their primary guards. Pfluger is a guard who played 32 minutes and started.... But I think you pretty much nailed the player that made the difference. Goodwin outplayed either Usher or Bubba and ultimately I think that was the difference from a match up standpoint. I was focusing on our guard play as the reason we lost from the standpoint of I thought defense from Mike and Jose was the area that we could have realistically done better but didn't. It wasn't really that I thought they got outplayed but rather they didn't play as well as they could, or usually do, on the defensive end. As is I still think they pretty much played even with Hubb and Gibbs, with the major difference being Jose doing more facilitating others than creating for himself. We really needed one of either Usher or Bubba to step up, or even Cole who had a couple of good attempts and didn't capitalize (other than 2 FTs on what could have been an and 1 imo).



I agree they aren't the most explosive duo, but I'm not convinced that it is necessary for them to have that to be a top backcourt. Jose is leading all players in assists in conference play and is also chipping in nearly 13 points a game. Mike is top 20 in scoring and that include quite a few players who aren't back court players.

Which back courts would you put over Mike/Jose?

Duke and NCSU are the only ones I see as having a real argument.

Also, I think you are underselling Gibbs and Hubb. They are both top 5 in the ACC in scoring in conference games at about 18 a game and top 10 in assists. They are a damn good back court duo, and again I don't really think they outplayed Jose and Mike. I think all 4 played some bad defense but really good offense.

Anyways, there are some good young back courts in the ACC (Cuse and VT come to mind) and some teams will be adding some studs, but the ACC will also be losing quite a lot of good guards just to graduation. I think going into next year there will be a very strong argument that we'll have one of the best returning back courts along with Boeheim and Girard at Cuse and VT with Nolley Radgord and Alleyne. The big question is can we get more out of the 3 spot, and can we get more bench production, because that's where we are in desperate need.

LOL

 

[lauraee]

I keep seeing “drop the appeal”. I’ve seen no evidence in the 21st century that the NCAA rewards that kind of behavior or is willing to meet us halfway unless we fight tooth and nail on every point.
Dropping the appeal would probably be taken as signs of weakness, guilt, and acceptance that their sanctions are fair.
Regarding this game, we really ought to have a winning record at home. SMH

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So no punishment this year, we'll get nailed next year. Ok.

Do you really think tech will win an appeal? I don't.

 

[lauraee]

I've wondered where there is prescient for an appealing school to drop the appeal before it is ruled on. It wouldn't surprise me but I hadn't heard of it.



That would actually be fine if it let us use this year as the year we aren't eligible for post season play. The bigger problem is that we currently have 13 scholarships allocated for next year so that would become an issue if nobody wants to transfer.

If there is already someone on scholarship, they won't make you drop a current scholarship player. Just won't be able to sign anyone else and if it was supposed to happen this year, then they will add an extra year to our punishment to make up for this year.

 

[jayparr]

If we don't qualify for the NCAAT, drop the appeal. Not worth it for the NIT or CBA. Take our "ban" this season.

We have an equal or better chance at the NCAAT next season really only losing Banks, but we have a legit 4 star 7 footer coming in. Gigi as a freshman may not be as good as Banks defensively, but I think he will still give us a presence down low. Moses will be better, Alvarado will be better (and a senior), Devoe will be better (and a JR), Usher will be better, Moore will be better (barring transfer), Cole will be better (barring transfer), Price will be better (barring transfer), Parham will be better (he's starting to play better now), and we gain a scorer in Maxwell.

This year's team is easily Pastner's most talented team so far, but we're so hot and cold...never know which team we're getting. As we saw against Duke, we can play with anyone, but we can also lose against anyone as well. I believe next year's team will be a lot better cohesively than this team with all the returning talent (minus Banks) and with Pastner's best recruiting class coming in. We're talented this year, but we're still integrating Usher and Parham.

If Pastner doesn't make it to the NCAAT next season, for me, he's done here. This roster should be playing much better, but for some reason we're still too inconsistent and not playing to our talent level.

The guys are very athletic, but it is their low level of basketball IQ. And also after a couple of the guys make a couple of great plays then they over think what they can do. Put it simple Wright thinks he is Labron James and a couple of e'm think are in the mix.