Game Thread - ND, 1/15/2020

[slugboy]

So no punishment this year, we'll get nailed next year. Ok.

Do you really think tech will win an appeal? I don't.

There is more to the sanctions than the post season ban. I don’t think the NCAA will lift 100% of the sanctions, but I think if we drop the post season ban from our appeal then they’ll drop less of the sanctions. On appeal, reduction of penalties is something I’ve seen; reversal is not.
What’s in the appeal is what they might compromise on. Anything we pull out of the appeal gives them less to work with.

@jayparr : I don’t think this is a “low basketball IQ” situation. The backcourt especially shows individual creativity with the ball. Some schemes have you in a position to know where your open player is going to be, and I don’t think we have a system like that. We have players having to individually make plays, instead of a more team-oriented system. Last year, we did try a scheme that we didn’t fully have the players for, but it looks to me like we’re trying to compromise between what our coaches want to do and what our skills are.

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[first&ten]

We still look like we have no offensive concept esp against their zone

Bingo! how many times have we seen Alavardo or Devoe dribble down and around the basket, can't get off a shot or throw the ball back out? Turn over, shot clock error?? Just stupid offense!

 

[first&ten]

There is more to the sanctions than the post season ban. I don’t think the NCAA will lift 100% of the sanctions, but I think if we drop the post season ban from our appeal then they’ll drop less of the sanctions. On appeal, reduction of penalties is something I’ve seen; reversal is not.
What’s in the appeal is what they might compromise on. Anything we pull out of the appeal gives them less to work with.

@jayparr : I don’t think this is a “low basketball IQ” situation. The backcourt especially shows individual creativity with the ball. Some schemes have you in a position to know where your open player is going to be, and I don’t think we have a system like that. We have players having to individually make plays, instead of a more team-oriented system. Last year, we did try a scheme that we didn’t fully have the players for, but it looks to me like we’re trying to compromise between what our coaches want to do and what our skills are.

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slugboy, always wanted to know, is there a time limit for Tech to be able to drop the appeal ?

 

[chris975d]

Bingo! how many times have we seen Alavardo or Devoe dribble down and around the basket, can't get off a shot or throw the ball back out? Turn over, shot clock error?? Just stupid offense!

That’s one of my biggest gripes about our “offense”. How many times a game do we see Devoe drive to the basket and get trapped and as a result throw up and very low percentage wild shot, or plain out get stripped out lose control of the ball/turnover? It’s A LOT. And it’s over and over each game it seems.

 

[lv20gt]

That’s one of my biggest gripes about our “offense”. How many times a game do we see Devoe drive to the basket and get trapped and as a result throw up and very low percentage wild shot, or plain out get stripped out lose control of the ball/turnover? It’s A LOT. And it’s over and over each game it seems.

Probably a lot less than you think.

 

[chris975d]

Probably a lot less than you think.

You sure about that? It’s to a point that in our section (home games), fans have been vocal about it when Devoe gets the ball and starts driving. Even the person I have been bringing to home games, a former collegiate athlete (not D1) who hasn’t followed GT basketball before coming to games with me this year even asks me every game “why do they keep letting him do that when it doesn’t work? Is he supposed to be good?”

 

[YlJacket]

Bit of context important here. In the last 3 games we have gone to a very different scheme than the Princeton like set we ran for a lot of the first of the year. The issue we had at that time was that Banks was close to useless when he got the ball at the high post. Not a great passer and a total inability to make the 15-18 foot jumper that he was given because no one bothered to guard him out there. So we finally scrapped that idea (that worked well with Lammers who could make that 15 footer) and went to a more traditional high ball screen/influence screen for Banks and kept the ball in Jose's hands - and DeVoe to a lesser degree. The idea is for them to penetrate and score / more likely dish to a big or a shooter. The problem you are seeing is folks are collapsing because we don't have shooters outside of DeVoe. So they keep someone on him and everyone else hauls to the paint where Jose has no options.

Recognize that was really high level and a lot was left out but you get the drift. To be clear I am not a huge fan of our offensive schemes and would like to see a lot more movement and screens to get DeVoe clear for shots. But there is a logic to the current concept which puts the ball in our best playmakers hands to make plays rather than trying to force Banks to be the playmaker (ugh). But like your friend I think there is more we could do. But keep in mind that we are limited in that we don't have kids who can make shots from the perimeter. I had hoped Bubba would be that guy but so far not.

 

[MWBATL]

I had hoped Bubba would be that guy but so far not.

This is my biggest indictment of the coaching staff....here we get a pure shooter in Parham and what do we do with him? Try to turn him into a PG! Yeah, you can argue that's what we needed when Jose went down, but we have absolutely wasted a shooting talent the way we have used him, especially since Jose's return. Set some screens and let him shoot 3's!

 

[lv20gt]

You sure about that? It’s to a point that in our section (home games), fans have been vocal about it when Devoe gets the ball and starts driving. Even the person I have been bringing to home games, a former collegiate athlete (not D1) who hasn’t followed GT basketball before coming to games with me this year even asks me every game “why do they keep letting him do that when it doesn’t work? Is he supposed to be good?”

Yes. Fans latch on to certain ideas and then only notice the situations which reinforce those ideas. When Devoe drives and scored, Jose drives and dishes for an easy layup you aren't equating those situations as to those when they drive and the defense plays it well, so you only remember the ones where it fails as the situations.

Also, as far as your friend who doesn't follow GT basketball goes, my guess is you took him to Cuse and Ball state, the only home games we've had other than Duke in the last month and he's drawing conclusions off of a small sample size of the two worst games our team, including Devoe played all year. Because Devoe was 9-15 for 22 with 1 TO against ND, and 2 of the misses were threes and one was a shot he immediately followed up with a layup. Before Cuse in the homes games he scored 26 and 27 shooting nearly 60%+ in both.

 

[chris975d]

Yes. Fans latch on to certain ideas and then only notice the situations which reinforce those ideas. When Devoe drives and scored, Jose drives and dishes for an easy layup you aren't equating those situations as to those when they drive and the defense plays it well, so you only remember the ones where it fails as the situations.

Also, as far as your friend who doesn't follow GT basketball goes, my guess is you took him to Cuse and Ball state, the only home games we've had other than Duke in the last month and he's drawing conclusions off of a small sample size of the two worst games our team, including Devoe played all year. Because Devoe was 9-15 for 22 with 1 TO against ND, and 2 of the misses were threes and one was a shot he immediately followed up with a layup. Before Cuse in the homes games he scored 26 and 27 shooting nearly 60%+ in both.

My friend has been to every home game with me actually, but ok...

 

[lv20gt]

My friend has been to every home game with me actually, but ok...

Then your friend doesn't pay much attention then.

 

[chris975d]

Then your friend doesn't pay much attention then.

Lol. Ok. Cool. Glad you know how everyone thinks and observes.

 

[lv20gt]

Lol. Ok. Cool. Glad you know how everyone thinks and observes.

He's seen at least 4 games where Devoe has gone for 20+ points on 60% shooting and still asks if this guy supposed to be good. Yeah, he either didn't pay attention, or he's a figment of your imagination.

 

[chris975d]

He's seen at least 4 games where Devoe has gone for 20+ points on 60% shooting and still asks if this guy supposed to be good. Yeah, he either didn't pay attention, or he's a figment of your imagination.

I’ll ask HER tomorrow if she’s a figment if my imagination. Along with the people around us. I’ll get back to you with an answer. That work for you?

 

[kg01]

You sure about that? It’s to a point that in our section (home games), fans have been vocal about it when Devoe gets the ball and starts driving. Even the person I have been bringing to home games, a former collegiate athlete (not D1) who hasn’t followed GT basketball before coming to games with me this year even asks me every game “why do they keep letting him do that when it doesn’t work? Is he supposed to be good?”

It sounds like your friends are over-exaggerating. Hey, it happens.

 

[chris975d]

It sounds like your friends are over-exaggerating. Hey, it happens.

Okie dokie. Even though it’s also been said here by other posters, and on more than one GT Facebook group and twitter as well. But the best solution is probably for everyone to have their opinion, and just live life. Good talk.

 

[lv20gt]

I’ll ask HER tomorrow if she’s a figment if my imagination. Along with the people around us. I’ll get back to you with an answer. That work for you?

Can you ask her how many 20 point games of Devoe's she has seen since she asks you every game is he any good?

 

[chris975d]

Can you ask her how many 20 point games of Devoe's she has seen since she asks you every game is he any good?

Will do. Anything else?

But seriously, the point is that it leads to a lot of unnecessary turnovers. That’s the thing that any/all of the people who have mentioned it point out. Does it happen because of offensive strategy, or lack thereof? When it is happening, it happens a lot, and doesn’t change. Why? Coaching? Poor on court decision making by player(s)?

 

[lv20gt]

But seriously, the point is that it leads to a lot of unnecessary turnovers. That’s the thing that any/all of the people who have mentioned it point out. Does it happen because of offensive strategy, or lack thereof? When it is happening, it happens a lot, and doesn’t change. Why? Coaching? Poor on court decision making by player(s)?

Devoe and Jose are averaging 3 and 2.2 turnovers per game which isn't that high for primary ball handlers. You could probably throw Bubba's 1.8 in there as well. The reason for our high turnovers is probably attributed to using Wright and Banks more than many teams use their bigs when neither have really good hands nor good at recognizing the defense and passing. Moses is averaging 2.9 and Banks 2.4 per game. That's on the high end, but, Moses at least, makes it worthwhile. The real killer is Usher who averages 2.8 but isn't used nearly as much as Moses. He just plays too out of control at times. I'd say our scheme contributes to the turnovers but more so because we focus on going inside more to players that are more turnover prone, rather than seeking outside shots.

The real question though is how does our points allowed off turnovers look, because to me it seems we have a lot of dead ball turnovers like travels, charges, passes that go out of bounds, etc. I can't find the stats on that though but I've not really gotten the feeling this year that allowing transition baskets was a big problem. Obviously those TOs still are missed opportunities, but it's more akin to a missed shot than something that immediately leads to points for the other team.

 

[gte447f]

Chiming in on this Devoe debate. I really like Devoe. I think he is the most skilled player on the team. He is our best shooter (although a little streaky lately), and I think he is our best ball handler. Unlike some posters on here, I also think he plays good defense. He is not our best on ball defender, but he is ok, and he is very good at defending passing lanes. However, like YlJacket has said, he is not particularly explosive and he doesn't elevate when he shoots or drives to the basket. He is 6-4 and I have never seen him dunk the ball in the 2 seasons. When he drives to the basket he relies on beating his man to a spot. If he can't just blow by his man, then he tries to get his man going the wrong direction with fakes, spins, pivots, etc. or he tries to reach around or beyond his man with a scoop shot. The more traffic there is around him and the more bodies he has to account for, the harder it is for him to find an opening to get his shot off around the basket, since he can't just elevate to the rim or above the defenders.

So, I see what chris975d is seeing with the failed drives to the basket. I have not charted it or done the research, but I bet Devoe leads the team or is close to leading the team in number of shots blocked (by the opponent) in the last 2 seasons (although Banks gets blocked a lot too, which is baffling). He has made vast improvements this year. Last year was worse. Currently, I am pretty comfortable with his ability to get a clean look at the rim when he is single covered, but when he gets double and triple teamed or worse in the lane, I get nervous. As YlJacket said, if we had outside shooters to keep the defense honest and spread out and not able to collapse on Devoe, it would certainly help.