Financial Problems

[Peacone36]

IMHO you can't wipe out 5 years and the fact that you shouldn't have been hired in the first place in 1/2 dozen games.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I'll have a chance to see the Team up close next weekend. I suspect I'll conclude they've improved since last year. AD said coach needed to improve and if he has then why would the AD fire him? Is the consensus the AD told coach he needed to improve to keep his job when he was going to fire him regardless of how we actually did? Doesn't seem fair to me.

 

[dtm1997]

I'll have a chance to see the Team up close next weekend. I suspect I'll conclude they've improved since last year. AD said coach needed to improve and if he has then why would the AD fire him? Is the consensus the AD told coach he needed to improve to keep his job when he was going to fire him regardless of how we actually did? Doesn't seem fair to me.

They've improved quite a bit on offense. They've regressed quite a bit on defense.

We've signed some pretty good kids so far. We may not find many more good kids & our 2017 recruiting is anemic.

We may still have a shot at the NIT. We may not win more than 2 more games.

My point, and I think you're making it too, is that there are degrees of improvement. BG had multiple goals set for him. On the whole, it's highly unlikely he'll meet them and be in position to succeed next year.

 

[lv20gt]

I'll have a chance to see the Team up close next weekend. I suspect I'll conclude they've improved since last year. AD said coach needed to improve and if he has then why would the AD fire him? Is the consensus the AD told coach he needed to improve to keep his job when he was going to fire him regardless of how we actually did? Doesn't seem fair to me.

Fair? Are you kidding me? gregroy has gotten more than a fair treatment here. A 6-12 conference record isn't anywhere near a job saving performance. Hewitt's worst 5 years saw him win 31.25% of our ACC games. gregory would need to win 6 of the last 7 ACC games to barely eek out a better win percentage over his first 5 years than Hewitt's worst 5. And it would be unfair to fire him? What, keep him because last year was so laughably bad that we can miss post season play, again, and have a big improvement?

 

[Peacone36]

Yeah I don't know how you can watch this team play, watch our recruiting, watch our player development, and look at the stands on game night, and conclude that BG has done enough in 5 years to warrant a 6th. He has made the program worse after Hewitt on the court, not brought the program to mediocrity as was expected of him. No one thought he would make us prestigious. He was hired because he was cheap, not PH, and we needed to get away from PHs buyout. Accepting this rate of "progression" is unacceptable.

 

[AE 87]

Fwiw, I hate the word "unacceptable" on a fan forum, and @Peacone36 is the first person whose use I hoped wasn't true.

The fact is that most who use it do accept what they call unacceptable.

At the beginning of the season, I predicted 4-5 conference wins, iirc. It was the first time that I couldn't talk myself into optimism at the start of a season since the last 3 of pHewit.

As has been said, our sched was front loaded, and we could still win more conf games at the end and get to NIT.

Regardless, cbg has obviously not been getting the job done, but I'm not sure mbob has the trust to get the money for a replacement even if we lose out.

 

[awbuzz]

Do we have any "Smiths, Jacobs or Mitchells" ready to come in a play next year? (okay, okay I know that we don't know who will graduate, with eligibility AND want to come to GT at this time...)

Point being the current model is not what consistency is built upon.

 

[Peacone36]

Fwiw, I hate the word "unacceptable" on a fan forum, and @Peacone36 is the first person whose use I hoped wasn't true.

The fact is that most who use it do accept what they call unacceptable.

At the beginning of the season, I predicted 4-5 conference wins, iirc. It was the first time that I couldn't talk myself into optimism at the start of a season since the last 3 of pHewit.

As has been said, our sched was front loaded, and we could still win more conf games at the end and get to NIT.

Regardless, cbg has obviously not been getting the job done, but I'm not sure mbob has the trust to get the money for a replacement even if we lose out.

I'm confused by the first part of this.

 

[AE 87]

I'm confused by the first part of this.

For financial reasons, we may keep cbg, thereby "accepting this rate of progression." If this were truly unacceptable, as you said, you'd move on from being a GT fan. I would not want this whereas I wouldn't mind it for most who use "unacceptable" this way.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Fair? Are you kidding me? gregroy has gotten more than a fair treatment here. A 6-12 conference record isn't anywhere near a job saving performance. Hewitt's worst 5 years saw him win 31.25% of our ACC games. gregory would need to win 6 of the last 7 ACC games to barely eek out a better win percentage over his first 5 years than Hewitt's worst 5. And it would be unfair to fire him? What, keep him because last year was so laughably bad that we can miss post season play, again, and have a big improvement?

Let's review the history here. You all can correct any of my inaccuracies as I'm not a sports historian.

A. Blewitt was a poor coach. The program was headed in the wrong direction. He was let go.
B. Gregory was hired. He inherited a crappy program and didn't even have a home court. Try recruiting into that scenario.
C. After year 3, it became apparent Gregory was struggling. I'm assuming the new AD (think he would have been here 1 year at this point) would have had the old heart to heart. Didn't we give him a raise????? I'm assuming somebody besides me on here is actually in charge of people. Count the number of times you've given a raise to someone who was performing poorly and let me know if the number is greater than ZERO.
D. Years 4 and 5 are no better. I have no idea how they compare to year 3 because I'm not a basketball guru. I understand everyone's frustration that it's 2 more years of malaise and we all want it to end. I wanted him gone around this time, shot an email to the AD, read between the lines & realized he had no intention of firing him. My personal comments on this board had gotten over the top & I finally realized my opinion means jack & I might as well support the guy because he's going no where.
E. Now we're in year 6. The AD publicly proclaims "he had the talk". Somehow in my mind we end up with players on the roster that look nothing like last year to me. I know they all transferred in. Maybe that's the plan for next year. Not like he can broadcast it on a billboard. All I'm saying is we're better than last year, so the dude did what was expected.

Well, did the AD get hit with the stupid stick in 2013 and give him a raise or is his level of what's good different from you and me? I think the standard is much lower than we think, plus coupled with financials we're decided to play the hand we've got for another year or two. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Peacone36]

For financial reasons, we may keep cbg, thereby "accepting this rate of progression." If this were truly unacceptable, as you said, you'd move on from being a GT fan. I would not want this whereas I wouldn't mind it for most who use "unacceptable" this way.

I got ya. Using unacceptable as an ultimatum. I'm smelling what your stepping in now.

 

[dtm1997]

Let's review the history here. You all can correct any of my inaccuracies as I'm not a sports historian.

A. Blewitt was a poor coach. The program was headed in the wrong direction. He was let go.
B. Gregory was hired. He inherited a crappy program and didn't even have a home court. Try recruiting into that scenario.
C. After year 3, it became apparent Gregory was struggling. I'm assuming the new AD (think he would have been here 1 year at this point) would have had the old heart to heart. Didn't we give him a raise????? I'm assuming somebody besides me on here is actually in charge of people. Count the number of times you've given a raise to someone who was performing poorly and let me know if the number is greater than ZERO.
D. Years 4 and 5 are no better. I have no idea how they compare to year 3 because I'm not a basketball guru. I understand everyone's frustration that it's 2 more years of malaise and we all want it to end. I wanted him gone around this time, shot an email to the AD, read between the lines & realized he had no intention of firing him. My personal comments on this board had gotten over the top & I finally realized my opinion means jack & I might as well support the guy because he's going no where.
E. Now we're in year 6. The AD publicly proclaims "he had the talk". Somehow in my mind we end up with players on the roster that look nothing like last year to me. I know they all transferred in. Maybe that's the plan for next year. Not like he can broadcast it on a billboard. All I'm saying is we're better than last year, so the dude did what was expected.

Well, did the AD get hit with the stupid stick in 2013 and give him a raise or is his level of what's good different from you and me? I think the standard is much lower than we think, plus coupled with financials we're decided to play the hand we've got for another year or two. Maybe I'm wrong.

A) Agree. Hewitt should've been fired 1 year earlier than he was after his massive underachievement with Derrick Favors.
B) True on the crappy program, although there was some talent on the squad (Rice, Miller, Holsey, Mfon). He wasn't recruiting in to that scenario though. He was recruiting to a shiny new arena, which is where his first big recruiting class played from day one.
C) The 1-year extension with a modest raise came after year 3, justified by his best record at GT to date (16-15), significant academic progress (something he's been very successful at), & to show a vote of confidence that he'd be here to keep recruiting. The stupidity in this extension was not the extension itself, but the reset of the buyout.
D) Year 4 sucked because we were terrible on offense and couldn't close out games. Year 5 has been better because at least we've been generally more entertaining, but they still lack the "clutch gene" and his in-game tactics certainly haven't helped.
E) We're in year 5. That said, I'd bet we take at least 1 grad transfer with our 2 remaining spots.

The bottom line here, which I've posted about before & is in line with what you've said to a degree, is that poor decision has been compounded by poor decision across multiple ADs, leaving us hamstrung by a weak financial position that could leave the program in the doldrums for years to come from this point.

 

[BeeRBee]

C) The 1-year extension with a modest raise came after year 3, justified by his best record at GT to date (16-15), significant academic progress (something he's been very successful at), & to show a vote of confidence that he'd be here to keep recruiting. The stupidity in this extension was not the extension itself, but the reset of the buyout.

I believe that the 1 year extension came in 2013, after Year 2. According to the Memorandum of Understanding when he was hired, his salary for the 1st two years was $1 million, and there were to be provisions for a contract review 90 days after the second season ended. Bobinski officially started work April 1, 2013, a few days after GT's season ended in the ACC tournament, so he was reviewing the contract for a coach he had not officially been responsible for.

From the RamblinWreck.com article, dated November 12, 2013:

Gregory began his Tech career following a six-year period in which the Yellow Jackets had just two winning seasons, and played the 2011-12 season off-campus as McCamish Pavilion was being built. But the team improved by five victories overall and by two in Atlantic Coast Conference play during the 2012-13 season. The Jackets made significant improvements statistically according to the NCAA rankings and won three ACC games on the road, including eventual ACC champion Miami, ranked No. 6 at the time.

Every senior on the Tech team has graduated during Gregory's time, beginning with Maurice Miller and Lance Storrs in 2011 carrying through Derek Craig and Nick Foreman in 2012, and continuing with Pierre Jordan, Brandon Reed and Mfon Udofia in 2013. Since Gregory arrived, the team has compiled four of its top five collective semester grade-point averages since 2005.

The Yellow Jackets also have made significant strides in the NCAA's Academic Progress Report, posting a score of 1,000 in Gregory's first year. In the most recent report, Tech's men's basketball team recorded a 978 single-year APR, which helped improved its multi-year APR to a new high of 972.​

 

[lv20gt]

Let's review the history here. You all can correct any of my inaccuracies as I'm not a sports historian.

A. Blewitt was a poor coach. The program was headed in the wrong direction. He was let go.
B. Gregory was hired. He inherited a crappy program and didn't even have a home court. Try recruiting into that scenario.
C. After year 3, it became apparent Gregory was struggling. I'm assuming the new AD (think he would have been here 1 year at this point) would have had the old heart to heart. Didn't we give him a raise????? I'm assuming somebody besides me on here is actually in charge of people. Count the number of times you've given a raise to someone who was performing poorly and let me know if the number is greater than ZERO.
D. Years 4 and 5 are no better. I have no idea how they compare to year 3 because I'm not a basketball guru. I understand everyone's frustration that it's 2 more years of malaise and we all want it to end. I wanted him gone around this time, shot an email to the AD, read between the lines & realized he had no intention of firing him. My personal comments on this board had gotten over the top & I finally realized my opinion means jack & I might as well support the guy because he's going no where.
E. Now we're in year 6. The AD publicly proclaims "he had the talk". Somehow in my mind we end up with players on the roster that look nothing like last year to me. I know they all transferred in. Maybe that's the plan for next year. Not like he can broadcast it on a billboard. All I'm saying is we're better than last year, so the dude did what was expected.

Well, did the AD get hit with the stupid stick in 2013 and give him a raise or is his level of what's good different from you and me? I think the standard is much lower than we think, plus coupled with financials we're decided to play the hand we've got for another year or two. Maybe I'm wrong.

A. That poor coach went to the NCAAT 5 times and NIT 1 time in 11 years here. He had 41% win percentage in conference. In 5 years gegory will have made 0 NCAAT's, likely 0 NIT's, and currently ACC win percentage of 27.2%. And our program is worse today than it was when Hewitt was fired, and it isn't particularly close. If Hewitt was let go for being a poor coach and having the program going in the wrong direction, then gregory deserves to be shoved out the door.

B. His first recruiting class was going to come in playing on a new home court. Yeah, such a recruiting hindrance. He inherited an inconsistent program that could still recruit, and had played for an ACC Championship and won an NCAAT game just the year before. He took that program, made us consistently bad with no signs of being able to attract top level talent, and no post season success whatsoever.

C. Are you really arguing that gregory did a good job because he was given that extension/buy out reset instead of just realizing like everyone else that it was just a dumb decision by our AD? It was stupid at the time, it's even worse in retrospect. It wasn't a sign that gregory wasn't performing poorly. It was a sign that our AD made a huge mistake.

D. All 5 years under gregory have been bad. This year, despite hopes otherwise, is no better than two years ago. I'm not going to support a failure. Plain and simple. And anyone going to the games right now is helping prop up this failure.

E. We're in year 5. We're a different brand of bad. Instead of decent D with terrible O we're just bad at both ends. And if his plan is to continue this mercenary transfer train then he should be fired before he has a chance to actually do it. It's one of the reasons we are in such a bad spot. People will keep riding the "this is the best team he's had" here while we get the same results we always have gotten under him. Better than last year doesn't mean jack. Last year was terrible. This year is only slightly less so. And it was only done in a way that sacrificed the long term good of the program, because next year we'll be back to the level we were last year, if not worse.

If you want to say we don't have the money to can him, then do so. Don't try to warp it into an argument that it wouldn't be fair to fire him. It's utter nonsense.

 

[RamblinRed]

You are correct on the extension, that came after year 2.

Otherwise i agree with DTM.

One other heresay note. There has been alot of talk that in private meetings last summer CBG was told he had to make either the NIT or NCAA (I've heard it both ways) in order to retain his job for yr 6.

 

[dtm1997]

I stand corrected. It was on the eve of Year 3.

 

[g0lftime]

BG needs to go. It would seem to me that MB would need to be talking behind the scenes to other basketball insiders to find out what might be available to GT and how much it would cost. If he has the right situation in place and can sell it to the financial people, he might make a move this year. Obviously, he would have more $$ ammunition next year. I think BG's biggest problem is recruiting at the level needed to play within the ACC. I originally thought he could coach defense and was really weak on offense, but changes in the shot clock has forced more uptempo play and he can no longer work the clock to keep games close. He is showing weakness on both ends now. Overall the team has more elements needed to be competitive with better rebounding and 2 decent shooters. The good teams can shut down 2 offensive players and we have no answer with the remainder. We don't attack the basket well to draw fouls and get the opposition in foul trouble. This team should have more wins. Time for a change.

 

[AE 87]

BG needs to go. It would seem to me that MB would need to be talking behind the scenes to other basketball insiders to find out what might be available to GT and how much it would cost. If he has the right situation in place and can sell it to the financial people, he might make a move this year. Obviously, he would have more $$ ammunition next year. I think BG's biggest problem is recruiting at the level needed to play within the ACC. I originally thought he could coach defense and was really weak on offense, but changes in the shot clock has forced more uptempo play and he can no longer work the clock to keep games close. He is showing weakness on both ends now. Overall the team has more elements needed to be competitive with better rebounding and 2 decent shooters. The good teams can shut down 2 offensive players and we have no answer with the remainder. We don't attack the basket well to draw fouls and get the opposition in foul trouble. This team should have more wins. Time for a change.

Fwiw, I don't think it's the shot clock as much as the loss of the 5sec rule. jmo

 

[dtm1997]

BG needs to go. It would seem to me that MB would need to be talking behind the scenes to other basketball insiders to find out what might be available to GT and how much it would cost. If he has the right situation in place and can sell it to the financial people, he might make a move this year. Obviously, he would have more $$ ammunition next year. I think BG's biggest problem is recruiting at the level needed to play within the ACC. I originally thought he could coach defense and was really weak on offense, but changes in the shot clock has forced more uptempo play and he can no longer work the clock to keep games close. He is showing weakness on both ends now. Overall the team has more elements needed to be competitive with better rebounding and 2 decent shooters. The good teams can shut down 2 offensive players and we have no answer with the remainder. We don't attack the basket well to draw fouls and get the opposition in foul trouble. This team should have more wins. Time for a change.

Can't really argue with anything here and you bring up a good point that hasn't been considered. What if MBob actually can come up with a strategic plan good enough to get buy-in from boosters to support a better hire than we're expecting?

 

[Peacone36]

What if MBob actually can come up with a strategic plan good enough to get buy-in from boosters to support a better hire than we're expecting?