Film Study Film Study - Offense vs ND

[Boomergump]

Kelly's post game quote:

Q. In terms of the battle of the interior linemen.
COACH KELLY: We won that. We won that. So we were able to get out backers over the top. We were able to do some things to string it out a little bit and buy some time to get through those A back blocks which are so crucial.

I hear you loud and clear Cheese. I just don't agree. Maybe his definition of winning the battle up front was holding our guys up from getting to the second level (maybe there should be an emphasis on the word "holding"). That is not physical domination in my book. It was a good tactical battle in there, but to say we fell short physically defies simple observation(my opinion only). You should watch the tape yourself and then form an opinion. If you still feel that way, then fine. Was JT on the run sometimes? Yes, but don't forget we roll the pocket a good bit by design AND there were some plays where he had a good pocket and flew the coup too. It wasn't all bad pass pro.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

I don't think there is anything to that. We have laid an egg plenty of times when there was no axe to grind. This game Saturday felt a lot like BYU to me for instance.

Both games, right? I admit that's true. Maybe I'm just reading in to the hyped issues.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I hear you loud and clear Cheese. I just don't agree. Maybe his definition of winning the battle up front was holding our guys up from getting to the second level (maybe there should be an emphasis on the word "holding"). That is not physical domination in my book. It was a good tactical battle in there, but to say we fell short physically defies simple observation(my opinion only). You should watch the tape yourself and then form an opinion. If you still feel that way, then fine. Was JT on the run sometimes? Yes, but don't forget we roll the pocket a good bit by design AND there were some plays where he had a good pocket and flew the coup too. It wasn't all bad pass pro.

I find it very hard to watch the tape after losses but I'll try. So how do we counter this tactic when other teams start copying it?

Btw, ND's D was fast, physical, well coached and smart. Their fans are loud and plentiful. The environment was hostile. We screwed up a bunch. A lot of guys, including coach, are simply saying we didn't execute. Imo, all of what I just stated had a huge impact in that screw up.

The lack of experience killed us. Even CPJ said so in his presser today. I was warning about this all summer but nobody wanted to listen. Well, here ya go.

 

[BainbridgeJacket]

I hear you loud and clear Cheese. I just don't agree. Maybe his definition of winning the battle up front was holding our guys up from getting to the second level (maybe there should be an emphasis on the word "holding"). That is not physical domination in my book. It was a good tactical battle in there, but to say we fell short physically defies simple observation(my opinion only). You should watch the tape yourself and then form an opinion. If you still feel that way, then fine. Was JT on the run sometimes? Yes, but don't forget we roll the pocket a good bit by design AND there were some plays where he had a good pocket and flew the coup too. It wasn't all bad pass pro.

ND "won" in the trenches because preventing our guys from getting to the second level was their assignment and they succeeded in preventing us from moving up to the next level. Our guys didn't physically get whooped, but they surely didn't "win" their assignments because they never got to them.

Also, do you disagree with CPJs assessment in the weekly press conference that Brad Stewart made some good blocking effort? Maybe I'm trying to guess too much what your original comments were on WRs, but I'd imagine they were pretty close to my postgame remarks.

 

[Sideways]

Shirley, you're not saying Uncle Rico has bestowed the blueprint to the rest of the NCAA?

Well, if you use that 3-5 blueprint you better have way above average corners and outside linebackers because if someone gets loose on a seam route or a post there will be nothing but green grass to stop them.

 

[Sideways]

Was anyone else bothered by this?

In the post game press conference whenever JT was asked about why something did not work or they had trouble with something he responded the same way each time. "I don't know; I don't know what happened out there; I don't know what was going on."

That just raise all kinds of different questions for me none of which are good.

It could be that rather than throw his teammates under the bus for damn near getting him killed, he decided to be charitable.

 

[Boomergump]

ND "won" in the trenches because preventing our guys from getting to the second level was their assignment and they succeeded in preventing us from moving up to the next level. Our guys didn't physically get whooped, but they surely didn't "win" their assignments because they never got to them.

Also, do you disagree with CPJs assessment in the weekly press conference that Brad Stewart made some good blocking effort? Maybe I'm trying to guess too much what your original comments were on WRs, but I'd imagine they were pretty close to my postgame remarks.

Yeah. I just got back from the radio show. He felt the WRs played as well as anybody. That may be true overall, but I saw some things that sent me through the roof. Maybe I am not being fair just picking a few things out and not looking at the big picture. Whatever. My sentiments haven't changed a whole lot after having heard that. He has the wide angle film to look at and see the whole field. I get the luxury of WRs coming in and out of view. If I were you guys, I would listen to coach.

BTW, my issues had nothing to do with Brad Stewart fwiw.

 

[1979jacket]

Thanks for the write-up. My feeling is that it is very accurate. I have not watched the film (usually do) but what you say is what I saw despite drinking a couple of margaritas during the game. The two things that stood out to me from a coaching standpoint were: 1) ND changing formations (they played almost strictly 3-5 against Navy last year) and 2) flowing to the counter. Good coaching by them because I think the changing formations greatly confused our blocking and the flow to the counter also confused us. I have to give their coaches credit for creativity.

Couple of questions:
1) What did we hope to accomplish by splitting an Aback out? Was it to get a defensive man out of the box or was it to set up a better blocking angle?
2) Looked like to me the play Skov ran the wrong way - we had the Aback going inside to block and the play would have been a nice gainer. Did we try that blocking scheme other times and it just didn't work? It sure looked good on that play if executed properly.

I saw the Marshall hold and was very mad because that was a big play early momentum wise - it was an obvious penalty and I was very surprised the refs
missed that one. I also felt the oline got a decent push and watched Devine some and he did not play badly. Jt's play was very disappointing to me. Yes, a QB needs blocking but he can 1) take what they give him and 2) he can avoid the stupid toss forward as well as intentional fumble - just ridiculous. Those were frustration tantrums.

 

[GTBandit22]

Couple of questions:
1) What did we hope to accomplish by splitting an Aback out? Was it to get a defensive man out of the box or was it to set up a better blocking angle?
2) Looked like to me the play Skov ran the wrong way - we had the Aback going inside to block and the play would have been a nice gainer. Did we try that blocking scheme other times and it just didn't work? It sure looked good on that play if executed properly.

I'm not boomer but I'll take a shot
1.) I believe it was to take the defender out of the box. They would follow him, so we left him. One less defender in the box.
2.) That was a midline. Yes, it was a give and first down and shot at a TD.

 

[stylee]

One of the benefits of splitting the A-Back out - going to Trip - is it forces one of a small handful of answers from the defense: safety rotates down, linebackers bump over, or they keep two safeties up top (and thus have fewer guys than we do to the trips side).

When they rotate a safety down, you'll usually see us running stuff away from the trips side. Lots of triple option.
When they keep two up top, we'll often run stuff back at the trips side - like that "crazy" or boomerang motion from the wide A-back that you saw.

I had no problem with CPJ's playcalling. Maybe some more rocket toss?

 

[GTRX7]

Here is one concern I am starting to have. When facing elite linebackers, is it just too much to try to ask our offensive lineman to get past the D-line and make blocks on those guys in space? I am not asking to be critical of CPJ or the scheme. I just don't know. Is that a sort of ceiling for the offense and maybe one reason it would be limited in the NFL, or is it possible to recruit elite enough o-line guys who can both face up with D-lineman and get to the second level and block linebackers in space?

 

[dressedcheeseside]

One of the benefits of splitting the A-Back out - going to Trip - is it forces one of a small handful of answers from the defense: safety rotates down, linebackers bump over, or they keep two safeties up top (and thus have fewer guys than we do to the trips side).

When they rotate a safety down, you'll usually see us running stuff away from the trips side. Lots of triple option.
When they keep two up top, we'll often run stuff back at the trips side - like that "crazy" or boomerang motion from the wide A-back that you saw.

I had no problem with CPJ's playcalling. Maybe some more rocket toss?

Smoke route was not used once yet it was there for the taking.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Here is one concern I am starting to have. When facing elite linebackers, is it just too much to try to ask our offensive lineman to get past the D-line and make blocks on those guys in space? I am not asking to be critical of CPJ or the scheme. I just don't know. Is that a sort of ceiling for the offense and maybe one reason it would be limited in the NFL, or is it possible to recruit elite enough o-line guys who can both face up with D-lineman and get to the second level and block linebackers in space?

There's a delicate balance between size and athleticism concerning our Olinemen. Maybe we've sacrificed too much agility and speed for size and power. Chambo has gotten a lot better, but if I see him wiff one more time on the MLB.... It's not just him, either, Joe had a horrendous game.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

It could be that rather than throw his teammates under the bus for damn near getting him killed, he decided to be charitable.

I like that explanation best.

 

[1979jacket]

I'm not boomer but I'll take a shot
1.) I believe it was to take the defender out of the box. They would follow him, so we left him. One less defender in the box.
2.) That was a midline. Yes, it was a give and first down and shot at a TD.

i know it was the midline - but how many times did we try it? without watching tape, i would say less than i expected. could be wrong though.

 

[GTBandit22]

i know it was the midline - but how many times did we try it? without watching tape, i would say less than i expected. could be wrong though.

No, you're right. We didn't run much midline.
Maybe stylee can jump in but I think there were a few reasons for this.
1.) They were in an odd front a lot of the game. It is tough to run midline with a "0" tech heads up on center.
2.) Our abacks were having trouble blocking linebackers, so sending them inside to block doesn't help.
3.) The midline is designed to option off the DT, who we had a lot less trouble blocking than the ends

 

[bravejason]

Smoke route was not used once yet it was there for the taking.

I question that it would have been effective. That play seems to work well only when the WR can stiff arm the CB. Otherwise it goes for minimal yardage. I doubt that the GT WR would have been able to do more than gain a yard or two. I just don't think they would have been able to defeat the tackles by the ND CB.

 

[bravejason]

One of the benefits of splitting the A-Back out - going to Trip - is it forces one of a small handful of answers from the defense: safety rotates down, linebackers bump over, or they keep two safeties up top (and thus have fewer guys than we do to the trips side).

When they rotate a safety down, you'll usually see us running stuff away from the trips side. Lots of triple option.
When they keep two up top, we'll often run stuff back at the trips side - like that "crazy" or boomerang motion from the wide A-back that you saw.

I had no problem with CPJ's playcalling. Maybe some more rocket toss?

Absolutely more rocket toss! It seemed to me ND had everyone inside the tackle box, so I would think that that play would have been effective.

 

[alaguy]

I hear you loud and clear Cheese. I just don't agree. Maybe his definition of winning the battle up front was holding our guys up from getting to the second level (maybe there should be an emphasis on the word "holding"). That is not physical domination in my book. It was a good tactical battle in there, but to say we fell short physically defies simple observation(my opinion only). You should watch the tape yourself and then form an opinion. If you still feel that way, then fine. Was JT on the run sometimes? Yes, but don't forget we roll the pocket a good bit by design AND there were some plays where he had a good pocket and flew the coup too. It wasn't all bad pass pro.

Boomer.
maybe they didn't dominate but EVERYTHING we did looked a struggle.The only 2 plays that were "normal" easy were--Snoddys run down right sideline(which btw showed how tough their DBs were as the guy who made stop fought off our blocker for 20 yds ,not giving up) and Skov TD at pass end.
It looks like we have lost our security blanket from last yr--running off Shaqs butt almost anytime to rightside for yds and then varying off it when they try to overcompensate.( er,that and having 2 NFL WRs which we certainly aren't close to having now to get open behind generally poor pass blocking.)

 

[GTpdm]

I question that it would have been effective. That play seems to work well only when the WR can stiff arm the CB...

Couldn't the WR just wait until the ball was in the air, and then push-off the defender to make the catch?

We know the refs were allowing that all day...