False Hope

Bogey

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,725
To me, it was obvious that we would get waxed by L'ville without José and Gueye, and the team knew that too. CJP has done a göd job so far developing players and needs a chance to develop his recruiting at Tech to "grow old and stay old". Just imagine where we would be if Okogie had stayed another year. It wasn't CJP's fault that he took an underrated recruit and developed him into a NBA draft pick in 2 years. I think CJP will be a coach at Tech for quite awhile if we can keep him.

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jbix80

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
961
So let me get this straight. We get smashed by a good team with our PG and our only two upperclassmen out with injuries and it’s the head coaches fault?

Just curious, but when it was announced that Jose wasn’t playing did anyone see this going differently?
He says that every post. I think he started a whole section just criticizing him.
 

Peacone36

Helluva Engineer
Messages
10,500
Location
Maine
To me, it was obvious that we would get waxed by L'ville without José and Gueye, and the team knew that too. CJP has done a göd job so far developing players and needs a chance to develop his recruiting at Tech to "grow old and stay old". Just imagine where we would be if Okogie had stayed another year. It wasn't CJP's fault that he took an underrated recruit and developed him into a NBA draft pick in 2 years. I think CJP will be a coach at Tech for quite awhile if we can keep him.

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He didnt develop him though, remember? We fired the guy with phenomenal evaluation skills that is also the only guy in the country that graduates players :):confused:
 

GT11

GT Athlete
Messages
345
To me, it was obvious that we would get waxed by L'ville without José and Gueye, and the team knew that too. CJP has done a göd job so far developing players and needs a chance to develop his recruiting at Tech to "grow old and stay old". Just imagine where we would be if Okogie had stayed another year. It wasn't CJP's fault that he took an underrated recruit and developed him into a NBA draft pick in 2 years. I think CJP will be a coach at Tech for quite awhile if we can keep him.

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It’s great to see somebody that understands what is happening. I totally agree with your thoughts and believe if people let things play out they are going to be happy.
 

MiracleWhips

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
583
Of course this is me being optimistic but Duke has shown that they aren't as efficient against 2-3 zone (e.g. Syracuse). If we can play great defense and take care of the rock, its anyone's game.
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
Staff member
Messages
12,103
Location
Marietta, GA
So let me get this straight. We get smashed by a good team with our PG and our only two upperclassmen out with injuries and it’s the head coaches fault?

Just curious, but when it was announced that Jose wasn’t playing did anyone see this going differently?
Nope
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
Staff member
Messages
12,103
Location
Marietta, GA
So, what are you guys looking for at duke? I suppose a win is out of the question so let's get that out of the way.
... well we did beat Syracuse, who then beat Duke... So in theory that increases our chances slightly above just being theoretical because we will play the game.
 

Bogey

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,725
Of course this is me being optimistic but Duke has shown that they aren't as efficient against 2-3 zone (e.g. Syracuse). If we can play great defense and take care of the rock, its anyone's game.
I agree. We may not win but we can make a game of it, if we show up like we are capable.

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YlJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,260
Of course this is me being optimistic but Duke has shown that they aren't as efficient against 2-3 zone (e.g. Syracuse). If we can play great defense and take care of the rock, its anyone's game.

those are 2 huge "ifs". Duke lives off of creating turnovers and run outs. We specialize in turning the ball over.
Duke also is big on offensive rebounding. We seem to be a bit remiss on defensive rebounding.
Those 2 alone are enough before you even look at the talent level they have.
I have some really good looking gold glasses but this one takes a bad shooting game for them and us playing out of our mind - and a game in the 60s.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,580
So, what are you guys looking for at duke? I suppose a win is out of the question so let's get that out of the way.

A win isn't completely out of the question but it would take a shooting performance unlike anything we have shown this year. If we have to lose, I hope we can look back and say "if we just had rebounded the ball slightly better and taken better care of it we'd have won". I think the only way we don't get killed on the offensive boards is if Duke isn't missing shots. I'd like us to show that we have a legit defense that can hang with anyone. Offensively I'd like to see Haywood have a big game after shooting so poorly against UL and I'd like to see Devoe step up and show that he can hang with the super freshmen.
 

RamblinRed

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
5,862
We'll see where we end up this year and we have alot of tough games to play but Pastner is here through year 5 imo, that is how his contract is structured and how GT wanted it structured.
If he doesn't have an NCAA team by year 5 I expect him to be replaced, but right now it is too early to make that call.

More importantly, firing him before that time is likely to do more to hurt GT basketball in the long term than help it.

First, if we fire him before year 5 his contract is fully guaranteed through year 5 so we would have to pay him the full remaining value of the contract plus hire a new staff. that would almost guarantee we would have to go cheap again (I believe currently only Christian at BC makes less than Pastner currently does).

Second, If you fire him after 3 seasons you are going to have a really difficult time hiring any coach to come here as they will see a school that doesn't really have their back when they know they were going to rebuild.

If after year 5 we have to replace him I believe we will at least be in the best position to hire a new coach as we have been in my lifetime. First, we have no other buyouts to pay. Second Pastner's buyout becomes pro-rated. Third, we are likely to be in a better place than we have been with our 3 previous hires. We may not be great, but I don't think we will be awful.
If we get to that point we have to be willing to offer at least $2.5MM and possibly closer to $3 for the next coach.

I don't know yet whether he is going to be the right long term answer - there are parts of the last 2 1/2 years that suggest yes and parts that suggest no. Keep in mind he already has more wins both overall and in conference than Gregory or Cremins had at the end of their first 3 years. 4 more wins would give him more overall wins than Hewitt's first 3 years and 5 more wins would give him as many ACC wins as Hewitt had his first 3 years (more losses also).

It's never been 'easy' to win at GT. We've had some strong stretches, but never a really long term sustained excellence. We've never had more than 3 consecutive seasons of 20+ wins (87-88 to 89-90).
Our best sustained stretch was from 84-85 to 89-90 where we had 5 20+ win seasons in 6 years. That's almost 1/3 of the 16 total seasons of 20+ wins we have had in school history.
Cremins had 1 20+ win season his last 8 years. Hewitt had 2 20+ seasons his last 6 (and 4 losing seasons), Gregory had 1 20+ win season in his 5 years (and 3 losing seasons).

In terms of having to rebuild i'd rank it like this
Cremins (GT was 1-27 in the ACC the 2 years before he arrived, included 4-23 overall, 0-14 ACC the year before). People didn't think GT could compete in the ACC, much less win.
Pastner (He came in off of Gregory's only 20 win team, but he was losing the top 4 players - and 5 of its top 8 - from that team with just one 4* returning player in Tadric and no 4* recruits and losing 75%+ of its production)
Gregory (he came in off of an awful 11-20 team, but one that did have talent as he had 4 4* players on his first squad - Rice, Udofia, Holsey, Royal - unfortunately Rice was a knucklehead and Royal overrated).
Hewitt (Cremins last squad went 13-17 and was the end of Jason Collier's time but Hewitt did have 3 Top 75 players on his first roster with Akins, Jones and Marvin Lewis and returned most of the team from the previous year.)

What Pastner has done so far is not out of line we any of the previous modern era coaches, until he moves one way or the other it is simply too early to make any decisions.
 

GT_EE78

Banned
Messages
3,605
It's never been 'easy' to win at GT. We've had some strong stretches, but never a really long term sustained excellence. We've never had more than 3 consecutive seasons of 20+ wins (87-88 to 89-90).
Our best sustained stretch was from 84-85 to 89-90 where we had 5 20+ win seasons in 6 years. That's almost 1/3 of the 16 total seasons of 20+ wins we have had in school history.
.

9 straight NCAAT (85-94) is pretty darn close to "long term sustained excellence"
 

GTJake

Banned
Messages
2,066
Location
Fernandina Beach, Florida
Firing Pastner ... I hope we learned from Hewitt firing a coach is not always the best answer and I agree with Red, if he doesn't make the NCAA in year 4, start making a list, if not in year 5, make a move.
Duke ... Not as efficient from 3-point range, but don't know how we are going to stop Zion.
Recruiting ... I'm not sure about this "get old stay old" culture, but I do think we need to recruit some studs.
Comment ... I have a disc of the 2004 Championship Game run season, thinking it would cheer me up, I watched for about two minutes and had to stop, way too depressing.
 

Peacone36

Helluva Engineer
Messages
10,500
Location
Maine
Firing Pastner ... I hope we learned from Hewitt firing a coach is not always the best answer and I agree with Red, if he doesn't make the NCAA in year 4, start making a list, if not in year 5, make a move.
Duke ... Not as efficient from 3-point range, but don't know how we are going to stop Zion.
Recruiting ... I'm not sure about this "get old stay old" culture, but I do think we need to recruit some studs.
Comment ... I have a disc of the 2004 Championship Game run season, thinking it would cheer me up, I watched for about two minutes and had to stop, way too depressing.

Whoa whoa, explain that first line between the elipsis and comma.....
 
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