Expansion Talk 2021

[Augusta_Jacket]

The fact that many of you believe the playoffs may not expand tells me we have a bunch of young posters. The idea that the playoffs won’t expand is like the idea that Apple won’t come out with a new version of the iPhone. Expansion has nothing to do with what is in the best interests of student athletes or individual conferences or “alliances” of conferences. It comes down to TV money and that’s it. The alliance will not stop expansion because expansion lines their pockets as much as it does the SEC. Those of you who put virtuous attributes behind any alliance’s plans are just naive. Things like they want to save the sport, or keep long established traditions in place, or my favorite of keeping the student in student-athlete are just fantasyland. You might as well just ask your mommy to read you another bedtime story. All the conferences are used car salesmen looking to maximize the dollar they get. The playoffs will expand just like the vultures expanded the NCAA tourney.

Believe me, I also use to be young and dumb and believed the BCS was gonna be awesome and that fairness would rule just like when mommy would tuck me in at night. We see how fair that was and how long that lasted. The only question is how long will it take them to negotiate splitting up the money. All this other stuff is just semantics.

For the record, not many have said the playoffs won't expand. What the Alliance will do is pump the brakes until they have a chance to negotiate the expansion to their benefit. Since the 3 allied conferences have the majority, they will have outsized say in how it is implemented. The news dropping early on the Texas/OU situation hurt the SEC, which is why you see such vehemence from their mouthpieces against this Alliance. If the Alliance wasn't problematic for the SEC, so many of their media fanboys wouldn't be trashing it already.

 

[DaltonJacket]

You obviously watch Finebaum way more than me. I haven’t watched him since last season because he is a bore. And you keep bringing up hype. The SEC is not hype. They kick everyone’s butts. I hate that they do but they do. I just watched the College World Series and they had both teams in it. Sure NC State got hosed and our Commissioner did nothing. I guarantee you that if Mississippi State was getting hosed that Sankey would have been all over it. As for football, the SEC has won the last 2 titles by two different schools with two different coaching staffs. And both those teams were dominant. They’ve won 11 of the past 20. They also dominate gymnastics, track and field, and show up in the NCAA tourney as much as the ACC has lately.

How is that marketing hype? Marketing hype is what we see from Michigan and Miami every year. All the SEC does is build better facilities, hire and pay better assistant coaches, and lure talented players. That’s not marketing hype. That’s a business model that works. Sure, their players are morons and their they have meaningless degree programs but that doesn’t matter to the athletic department.

This should matter......the teams are supposed to represent academic institutions. You are right though and this is why I no longer pay attention to the larger world of college sports. If the SEC wants sports and not to worry at all about academics let them...and let those of us who do care play college football. Let the SEC be the NFL light if they want. I watch the NFL in order to see the best football. I watch Tech because I care for the institute.

 

[yeti92]

Not really. NFL lacks the innovation you see in the college game. College football is actually a superior product with less skilled players across the board. The same situation as with college basketball versus the NBA. College is a far superior product.

I prefer the college sports as well and don't watch the NFL or NBA, but originally you were saying you wouldn't want an SEC semipro league because it lowers the talent level for the remaining collegiate teams using student athletes. Now, you are saying the talent level is not what makes a league superior, so which is it? What makes you think the SEC would be a superior product, other than that they would have more talented athletes?

 

[DaltonJacket]

Not really. NFL lacks the innovation you see in the college game. College football is actually a superior product with less skilled players across the board. The same situation as with college basketball versus the NBA. College is a far superior product.

I get what you are saying here with the exception that in the NFL I feel like my team has a chance to rebound and compete even if they are at the bottom of the league. Its not the same 4-5 teams every year. There are mechanisms in place to give everyone a chance. That doesn't exist in college football.......Vanderbilt or Duke will never win a natty. That chance to compete for all teams is part of the product and that makes the NFL a better overall product to me even though college probably is more innovating.

 

[TomOReilly]

That's a tragedy, in my opinion. If you can't win your conference you shouldn't be able to win the natty. Full stop.

Agreed... And now with effectively a P4 structure, there is an 8 team playoff with ND on the outside looking in.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

8 works out well with a P4 structure.
1. win your conference no matter what your record is and you are in (That's 4)
2. Highest ranked G4 team is in (Maybe they should be ranked in the top 25?)
3. ND can get in if they are what top 5 or maybe top 8 in the country
4. The rest go to the other P4 conferences and they are limited to only 1 more per conference. A conference can never have more than 2 of the 8 So if ND and a G4 cant make it then each conference gets 2

 

[TomOReilly]

I was really saying the conference championship game counts as round 1 of the playoffs. P4*2=8 teams. Going beyond that involves too many teams or round 2 byes. If you want to include a G level or ND add-in, they have to play championship Saturday as part of round 1 games.

 

[WreckinGT]

Not really. NFL lacks the innovation you see in the college game. College football is actually a superior product with less skilled players across the board. The same situation as with college basketball versus the NBA. College is a far superior product.

I realize this is very subjective but I couldn't disagree more. The NFL is made for TV and constantly refines itself for it. Along with much better players, they also don't suffer from the severe lack of parity in the college game, there are shorter halves, a shorter half time, less review timeouts, etc. They also don't schedule playoff games on weird nights or have their championship on a Monday night at 8:30. The NFL also has many more stars than the college game will ever have. Its a significantly better product.

 

[yjack]

A couple points, somewhat in opposition to each other. The more schools that are in the playoffs the more games to be played and the more TV revenue to be made. But there more schools involved the more rounds of weekly play are required to determine the champion. The question becomes, how many games for a college team to play is too many?

 

[85Escape]

I realize this is very subjective but I couldn't disagree more. The NFL is made for TV and constantly refines itself for it. Along with much better players, they also don't suffer from the severe lack of parity in the college game, there are shorter halves, a shorter half time, less review timeouts, etc. They also don't schedule playoff games on weird nights or have their championship on a Monday night at 8:30. The NFL also has many more stars than the college game will ever have. Its a significantly better product.

But more boring for all that, in my opinion. Like the NBA, it's become such a star-driven enterprise that it's not "Tampa Bay vs Atlanta", it's "Can Ryan Finally Get Back at Tom?" If I wanted make-believe drama I'd watch The Bachelor.

 

[Technut1990]

I am utterly shocked at what seems to me to be the belief that The SEC will just sit still and take what has to look to them like a unified act of aggression. It doesn't matter if they started it, The SEC ain’t gonna just do what the Alliance says and smile about it. This Alliance thing is only the second phase of this redevelopment that blows up The NCAA. We will see full blown anarchy in a year or so. Let these TV deals expire and it’s show time. Do you guys not remember all the projections for more realignment in 2023 ? It’s because teams would be out of their TV deals and can go wherever they wish. The Alliance apparently isn’t going to include an attempt at a grand new TV deal that leverages all 3 conferences as one, since everyone has said the conferences will stay individual. This means all will be negotiating new contracts as these deals expire.

if any of you were running the SEC would you simply accept this ?

If the 3 conferences officially merged then it would block any SEC counter but they ain’t so, game on !

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

A couple points, somewhat in opposition to each other. The more schools that are in the playoffs the more games to be played and the more TV revenue to be made. But there more schools involved the more rounds of weekly play are required to determine the champion. The question becomes, how many games for a college team to play is too many?

No one including the NCAA, the colleges themselves, or fans care how many games are too many. They are rooting for the jersey. The players come and go and are expendable. Everyone will act as if they care if a star player gets injured but that lasts until the cameras are off and the checks are cashed.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

For the record, not many have said the playoffs won't expand. What the Alliance will do is pump the brakes until they have a chance to negotiate the expansion to their benefit. Since the 3 allied conferences have the majority, they will have outsized say in how it is implemented. The news dropping early on the Texas/OU situation hurt the SEC, which is why you see such vehemence from their mouthpieces against this Alliance. If the Alliance wasn't problematic for the SEC, so many of their media fanboys wouldn't be trashing it already.

I hear you. I just don’t believe a word that comes from any used car salesman posing as a commissioner of a conference. They won’t be able to agree on an overall deal because every school has their own agenda and will want carved out exemptions. Heck, the way Sankey operates it wouldn’t surprise me to see more schools join them at any point. He’s probably working ND hard.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I am utterly shocked at what seems to me to be the belief that The SEC will just sit still and take what has to look to them like a unified act of aggression. It doesn't matter if they started it, The SEC ain’t gonna just do what the Alliance says and smile about it. This Alliance thing is only the second phase of this redevelopment that blows up The NCAA. We will see full blown anarchy in a year or so. Let these TV deals expire and it’s show time. Do you guys not remember all the projections for more realignment in 2023 ? It’s because teams would be out of their TV deals and can go wherever they wish. The Alliance apparently isn’t going to include an attempt at a grand new TV deal that leverages all 3 conferences as one, since everyone has said the conferences will stay individual. This means all will be negotiating new contracts as these deals expire.

if any of you were running the SEC would you simply accept this ?

If the 3 conferences officially merged then it would block any SEC counter but they ain’t so, game on !

41 votes > 16 votes

Unless the SEC chooses to go it alone, they aren't outvoting the other 3 conferences...

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I hear you. I just don’t believe a word that comes from any used car salesman posing as a commissioner of a conference. They won’t be able to agree on an overall deal because every school has their own agenda and will want carved out exemptions. Heck, the way Sankey operates it wouldn’t surprise me to see more schools join them at any point. He’s probably working ND hard.

For someone who has no trust in conference commissioners, you seem to think Sankey can do no wrong.

Again, read the tea leaves. Sankey and the SEC almost pulled off a terrific move, but it may have backfired on them somewhat. Sure, they get UT and OU and all the money that comes with that, but Texas is most likely going to have to shutter the Longhorn network, which was a cash windfall for them. They also now have the attention of the other three conferences and have forced them to act in unison. This will be very interesting, but the SEC may have overplayed their hand somewhat. They will be the deepest and richest conference, no doubt, but the bridges they are burning in the process may well come back to haunt them.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

8 works out well with a P4 structure.
1. win your conference no matter what your record is and you are in (That's 4)
2. Highest ranked G4 team is in (Maybe they should be ranked in the top 25?)
3. ND can get in if they are what top 5 or maybe top 8 in the country
4. The rest go to the other P4 conferences and they are limited to only 1 more per conference. A conference can never have more than 2 of the 8 So if ND and a G4 cant make it then each conference gets 2

I know, but I took it another step. This would give the fans what they want, give a little carrot to the SEC to keep us all together and make the conference champ go to the playoffs. but give a chance for possible a better team in a conference to make it to the playoffs if their only loss was to a conference champ in their own division

 

[DaltonJacket]

I am utterly shocked at what seems to me to be the belief that The SEC will just sit still and take what has to look to them like a unified act of aggression. It doesn't matter if they started it, The SEC ain’t gonna just do what the Alliance says and smile about it. This Alliance thing is only the second phase of this redevelopment that blows up The NCAA. We will see full blown anarchy in a year or so. Let these TV deals expire and it’s show time. Do you guys not remember all the projections for more realignment in 2023 ? It’s because teams would be out of their TV deals and can go wherever they wish. The Alliance apparently isn’t going to include an attempt at a grand new TV deal that leverages all 3 conferences as one, since everyone has said the conferences will stay individual. This means all will be negotiating new contracts as these deals expire.

if any of you were running the SEC would you simply accept this ?

If the 3 conferences officially merged then it would block any SEC counter but they ain’t so, game on !

I don't expect the SEC to just be told what to do and how to do it. But if the alliance members are serious about what they are saying they should not care what the SEC does. If the SEC wants to create a minor league football league with little to no connection to school then let them do it. I'm sure lots of people will love it but I don't need minor league football.

If that is attractive and other teams line up to join the SEC than I just have to admit that this sport has passed me by. That's ok also.

 

[TomOReilly]

I know, but I took it another step. This would give the fans what they want, give a little carrot to the SEC to keep us all together and make the conference champ go to the playoffs. but give a chance for possible a better team in a conference to make it to the playoffs if their only loss was to a conference champ in their own division

Forget the third place conference team. Conference championship game permits 2 teams from each P4 team. Then, get the "best" non P4 2 teams to play that weekend to complete round 1 of a CFP (10 teams). Bottom 2 teams must play 1 extra game to make the final 4. This model will aid in keeping the SEC from gobbling more elite teams, as the best way to make the CFP will sit in their current conferences.

 

[WreckinGT]

But more boring for all that, in my opinion. Like the NBA, it's become such a star-driven enterprise that it's not "Tampa Bay vs Atlanta", it's "Can Ryan Finally Get Back at Tom?" If I wanted make-believe drama I'd watch The Bachelor.

There may be some truth to this if you value teams over stars but the Falcons also only lost by 4 points in their first matchup with the Bucs last year. The Falcons, one of the worst teams in the league lost by 4 to the eventual Super Bowl champs. That kind of parity makes the league much more interesting to watch. Every time you watch a game, between any two teams you might see an actual game instead of seeing Alabama beat an average SEC team by 40 points. If the SEC does try to be an NFL light with really only 4-5 good teams max it will be a disaster.

 

[Technut1990]

41 votes > 16 votes

Unless the SEC chooses to go it alone, they aren't outvoting the other 3 conferences...

exactly my point 41 to 16 and the 16 represents arguably the most powerful conference in The NCAA, not gonna stand