Expansion Talk 2021

[forensicbuzz]

I prefer the college sports as well and don't watch the NFL or NBA, but originally you were saying you wouldn't want an SEC semipro league because it lowers the talent level for the remaining collegiate teams using student athletes. Now, you are saying the talent level is not what makes a league superior, so which is it? What makes you think the SEC would be a superior product, other than that they would have more talented athletes?

I'll make it simple, just so there won't be any confusion with the interpretation of what I said versus what you think I'm meaning (or I think I'm meaning). I have no interest in watching Yale v. Harvard. I've been there and done that. Not compelling football to me. It's why I don't find college baseball as compelling; the best talent goes to the Minor Leagues. To me (key point here, as this has always been my personal preference, as stated in my original post), I believe I would lose interest in college football if it became a second-tier game.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I get what you are saying here with the exception that in the NFL I feel like my team has a chance to rebound and compete even if they are at the bottom of the league. Its not the same 4-5 teams every year. There are mechanisms in place to give everyone a chance. That doesn't exist in college football.......Vanderbilt or Duke will never win a natty. That chance to compete for all teams is part of the product and that makes the NFL a better overall product to me even though college probably is more innovating.

Agreed. They're two totally different animals. I have no problem with a semi-pro level; just don't associate them with universities.

 

[Technut1990]

I don't expect the SEC to just be told what to do and how to do it. But if the alliance members are serious about what they are saying they should not care what the SEC does. If the SEC wants to create a minor league football league with little to no connection to school then let them do it. I'm sure lots of people will love it but I don't need minor league football.

If that is attractive and other teams line up to join the SEC than I just have to admit that this sport has passed me by. That's ok also.

but they do care, the smaller schools in The Alliance still want to play them. Plus What games are sold out every year ? Tech vs Ga and Fla St vs Florida.

look I hate the SEC mainly because of Ga but if the game does pass you by you can go back and look at this move. If Texas and Oklahoma had wanted to join the ACC we would all be singing it’s merits but instead we think it needs to be countered since they joined the SEC.

 

[WreckinGT]

I am utterly shocked at what seems to me to be the belief that The SEC will just sit still and take what has to look to them like a unified act of aggression. It doesn't matter if they started it, The SEC ain’t gonna just do what the Alliance says and smile about it. This Alliance thing is only the second phase of this redevelopment that blows up The NCAA. We will see full blown anarchy in a year or so. Let these TV deals expire and it’s show time. Do you guys not remember all the projections for more realignment in 2023 ? It’s because teams would be out of their TV deals and can go wherever they wish. The Alliance apparently isn’t going to include an attempt at a grand new TV deal that leverages all 3 conferences as one, since everyone has said the conferences will stay individual. This means all will be negotiating new contracts as these deals expire.

if any of you were running the SEC would you simply accept this ?

If the 3 conferences officially merged then it would block any SEC counter but they ain’t so, game on !

I think it is a bit of a stretch to think the SEC could poach from the Big 10 or Pac 12. If the ACC were in play then that would be a real possibility. I don't think the others are.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

exactly my point 41 to 16 and the 16 represents arguably the most powerful conference in The NCAA, not gonna stand

Are you saying that the SEC is gonna just split off on their own?

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

My opinion: I think we assign overvalued importance to whatever the SEC does.

 

[Technut1990]

Are you saying that the SEC is gonna just split off on their own?

that’s exactly what I’m saying and I’m also saying they will take 6-7 of The Alliance teams with them

 

[Technut1990]

My opinion: I think we assign overvalued importance to whatever the SEC does.

we are just talking here but saying we overvalue the importance of the SEC is like saying Coke is overvalued in the soft drink business. Only time will tell but let’s say The Alliance plan works, does The Big 10 start running the Alliance as the big dog ? What checks them ? Same boat different captain.

 

[RonJohn]

My opinion: I think we assign overvalued importance to whatever the SEC does.

It is very easy to do that in Atlanta. ESPN hypes the SEC somewhat. Local Atlanta media believe that SEC football is more important than faith or family. The GT "flagship" station doesn't even hype the fact that they are they GT "flagship" station. They hype that they are the official talk radio station of the cesspool. Some years ago if you listened to the GT "flagship" station during their normal shows, they always treated the SEC as on par with the NFL. (I don't listen to 680 any more, so I don't know what shows they have on today.) As a stereotype, the typical fan in Georgia will think that the SEC IS football. They think the Big10 are a bunch of morons, the Big12 doesn't understand football because they can't play defense, and the Pac12 is irrelevant because they are wimpy left-coast liberals. (not trying to start a political debate, just echoing what I have heard SEC homers actually say.)

When I have traveled for business to other parts of the country, I didn't hear anything about the SEC from local sports fans or local sports media. They were more concerned about the local college team, or more likely the closest NFL team.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

For someone who has no trust in conference commissioners, you seem to think Sankey can do no wrong.

Again, read the tea leaves. Sankey and the SEC almost pulled off a terrific move, but it may have backfired on them somewhat. Sure, they get UT and OU and all the money that comes with that, but Texas is most likely going to have to shutter the Longhorn network, which was a cash windfall for them. They also now have the attention of the other three conferences and have forced them to act in unison. This will be very interesting, but the SEC may have overplayed their hand somewhat. They will be the deepest and richest conference, no doubt, but the bridges they are burning in the process may well come back to haunt them.

Listen, Sankey is not an honorable man. He’s a used car salesman just like every commissioner is. But, he is by far the best business man of all the commissioners. He has run circles around every other conference, whether it’s TV contracts, money, marketing, expansion, etc. You can be a scum bag and still be good at something (this describes at least 60% of pro athletes).

So, it’s not a matter of me “thinking Sankey can do no wrong”. I want to beat him and his scumbag conference. But our conference has been previously led by a guy who was an empty suit. Swofford was all talk and no action unless your teams jersey said Duke or North Carolina. Maybe Phillips is a shark. Lord knows the ACC needs someone willing to break things and get stuff done. I’ve been hearing empty rhetoric for 20 years from the ACC. And what happened to NC State in baseball was about the worst thing I’ve ever seen. And our conference did nothing but took it. It was a total scam job. I told my son thank god that GT never made it that far because if that would have happened to my team I‘d have to quit college sports altogether because my heart couldn’t have handled it!

 

[RonJohn]

......Lord knows the ACC needs someone willing to break things and get stuff done. I’ve been hearing empty rhetoric for 20 years from the ACC.....

If this is what you think, then why are you against the ACC, Big10, Pac12 taking on the SEC? If this is what you want the ACC to do, they why describe an alliance to directly counter the SEC as cry babies who just want to try to hurt the SEC?

You are ranting a lot, but I can't follow anything because you seem to keep changing and changing in order to continue as a rant.

 

[Technut1990]

I think it is a bit of a stretch to think the SEC could poach from the Big 10 or Pac 12. If the ACC were in play then that would be a real possibility. I don't think the others are.

so a SEC that poaches Wisconsin, Minnesota, Oregon, USC, Michigan State, Purdue or any combo of other Pac 12 or Big 10 wouldn’t be more lucrative for those who were poached ? Add Clemson and Fla St in 2036. That wouldn’t be enough ?
or an SEC that just poaches Ohio State, Penn St and Michigan ?
it’s about money. That conference would be 3 times more lucrative for each member.

 

[JacketOff]

or an SEC that just poaches Ohio State, Penn St and Michigan ?
it’s about money. That conference would be 3 times more lucrative for each member.

You got any numbers to back that claim?

 

[Technut1990]

It is very easy to do that in Atlanta. ESPN hypes the SEC somewhat. Local Atlanta media believe that SEC football is more important than faith or family. The GT "flagship" station doesn't even hype the fact that they are they GT "flagship" station. They hype that they are the official talk radio station of the cesspool. Some years ago if you listened to the GT "flagship" station during their normal shows, they always treated the SEC as on par with the NFL. (I don't listen to 680 any more, so I don't know what shows they have on today.) As a stereotype, the typical fan in Georgia will think that the SEC IS football. They think the Big10 are a bunch of morons, the Big12 doesn't understand football because they can't play defense, and the Pac12 is irrelevant because they are wimpy left-coast liberals. (not trying to start a political debate, just echoing what I have heard SEC homers actually say.)

When I have traveled for business to other parts of the country, I didn't hear anything about the SEC from local sports fans or local sports media. They were more concerned about the local college team, or more likely the closest NFL team.

isn’t that exactly why the SEC is powerful ? Local perception in a conference that runs from Texas and Oklahoma to Florida to Kentucky is a pretty big “local” following.

As far as The media bowing to the SEC here in Atlanta, Tech has a lot to do with that. Tech willingly signed a long term radio deal in which they knew they were second fiddle to Georgia, the star college team on that station, why ?

Tech and the ACC regularly concedes the sports ground in favor academics, the result is a product of their choosing. For 20 years people on the Tech bandwagon have pleaded with the sports Gods for Tech to fight, they wouldn’t, the result is Georgia does run this state. Matter of fact I’m pretty sure CPJ pleaded with them to put more into the football program, they wouldn’t.

in a conversation about sports The ACC sells academics, that dosent work very well

 

[Technut1990]

You got any numbers to back that claim?

nope and if I need numbers to convince you then you don’t pay attention it should be readily obvious. If those teams go to the SEC that means they would be leaving The Big 10 dosent it ? Where’s the money going ? Or do you think the Big 10 still pays 50 million per team without them ?

 

[WreckinGT]

so a SEC that poaches Wisconsin, Minnesota, Oregon, USC, Michigan State, Purdue or any combo of other Pac 12 or Big 10 wouldn’t be more lucrative for those who were poached ? Add Clemson and Fla St in 2036. That wouldn’t be enough ?
or an SEC that just poaches Ohio State, Penn St and Michigan ?
it’s about money. That conference would be 3 times more lucrative for each member.

Why would USC and Oregon go the SEC instead of the Big 10 if they did want to leave? They are both AAU members and new markets. The Big 10 would take them in a heart beat. Why would any northern programs leave the Big 10 when they are making so much there already, playing teams somewhat close to them in all sports? You seem to think that the Big 10 is going to be drastically behind the SEC in money. Its really not.

 

[Technut1990]

Why would USC and Oregon go the SEC instead of the Big 10 if they did want to leave? They are both AAU members and new markets. The Big 10 would take them in a heart beat. Why would any northern programs leave the Big 10 when they are making so much there already, playing teams somewhat close to them in all sports? You seem to think that the Big 10 is going to be drastically behind the SEC in money. Its really not.

these conversations are circuitous. If regional alliances no longer matter and money is driving the game, shouldn't it be crystal clear that conferences that makes 54 million and 46 million per team apart would make at least a quarter more per team if the best of both combined ? I mean you are right if you judge things as they are but I think a lot of you are simply missing the way it could be.

it’s chocolate and peanut butter

 

[forensicbuzz]

Listen, Sankey is not an honorable man. He’s a used car salesman just like every commissioner is. But, he is by far the best business man of all the commissioners. He has run circles around every other conference, whether it’s TV contracts, money, marketing, expansion, etc. You can be a scum bag and still be good at something (this describes at least 60% of pro athletes).

So, it’s not a matter of me “thinking Sankey can do no wrong”. I want to beat him and his scumbag conference. But our conference has been previously led by a guy who was an empty suit. Swofford was all talk and no action unless your teams jersey said Duke or North Carolina. Maybe Phillips is a shark. Lord knows the ACC needs someone willing to break things and get stuff done. I’ve been hearing empty rhetoric for 20 years from the ACC. And what happened to NC State in baseball was about the worst thing I’ve ever seen. And our conference did nothing but took it. It was a total scam job. I told my son thank god that GT never made it that far because if that would have happened to my team I‘d have to quit college sports altogether because my heart couldn’t have handled it!

Um...a little premature for these comments don't you think? Maybe in the past, but you obviously don't know what you're talking about with at least 1 of the current crowd. Let me introduce you to Mr. Phillips. Not only is he about to bring Comcast into the fold, but I believe he'll also bring Notre Dame in (if it's at all possible). He has strong ties to ND (former Assoc. AD and has 2 kids there, one a student-athlete), and is the best diplomat I've ever spoken with. You should see him navigate little league dad-coaches. Amazing.

 

[JacketOff]

nope and if I need numbers to convince you then you don’t pay attention it should be readily obvious. If those teams go to the SEC that means they would be leaving The Big 10 dosent it ? Where’s the money going ? Or do you think the Big 10 still pays 50 million per team without them ?

There’s only a finite amount of monetary value to go around. When you start adding more slices, you have to make the pie much bigger to avoid losing the existing value. Say the SEC signs a $1B annual broadcast deal. For 16 teams thats $62.5M a year each. Add one team to make it 17 and it goes down to $58.8M per year. That’s $3.7M less per team, and it reduces the total value of the contract by about $60M. Make it 20 teams at $1B and each team is receiving $12.5M less per year than they would of the league was 16 teams. Adding 4 schools to the 16 school league would need to create an additional $200M or $50M per school on an annual basis. When you think about the possibility of all these historical powerhouses only playing each other for every game of every year, it diminishes their value greatly. Instead of Bama and Ohio State going 12-0 or 11-1 every year, they’re going to be looking at 9-3 and 8-4 seasons. Add in the possibility of losing geographic and historic rivalries and I don’t think that’s a sustainable method for long term money making. Fans of current elite programs will get fed up with losing more games per year, and not having anyone to trash talk since their geographic rivalries will be busted up. The awe of the big time matchups between OOC powerhouses is only there because they rarely happen. Once they start occurring on a weekly basis it will lose its luster. The SEC’s powerplay was supposed to be expanding the playoff right before the news breaking about TX and OU. Now that the play is ruined and they’ve shown their hand, their options will be to break off and form their own league, (unsustainable) or to play by the rules of the new alliance of conferences.

 

[Richard7125]

nope and if I need numbers to convince you then you don’t pay attention it should be readily obvious. If those teams go to the SEC that means they would be leaving The Big 10 dosent it ? Where’s the money going ? Or do you think the Big 10 still pays 50 million per team without them