Expansion Talk 2021

[Coloradojacket]

So where do we make up the funding shortfall to compete with factories for quality assistants? That's the point that keeps getting ignored in all of this.

Points ignored:
Clemson took the big step forward in 2013 with the hiring of Brent Venables. When he leaves let's see what happens. VT is a great example of this.
All this talk of money is great and we could always use more....but I think a lot of this board has gotten amnesia about Tech...Academics. We can only recruit certain players and only certain players will look at us.
If Miami and FSU got back to where they were then the ACC would be just as strong as the SEC. The SEC is Alabama and right now Georgia. Texas A&M is in prove it year and then the rest of the conference drops off.
If Miami, FSU and Clemson were top, of course that would pretty much guarantee no undefeated teams, add in UNC, the rest of the conference matches with the rest of the SEC.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

They aren't exactly on top now in spite of generating more revenue than any other program. What logic exists that says playing an SEC schedule with 235 million dollars a year will make them really successful when they couldn't succeed with 220 million in the Big 12?

Simple. Everyone knows Texas is one good coach away from competing nationally again. They are still a recruiting powerhouse. Once they solve the coach issue they will be a force again. You can't solve that issue at their level without money. Not only for coaches and assistants, but for facilities to stay ahead in the arms race. Everyone said Texas A&M would be a doormat in the SEC as well. How did that prediction work out?

 

[RyanS12]

I don't understand what is meant by us being desirable as an "Atlanta" market. As I understand it, we are a relatively small fanbase which doesn't have a huge affect on the TV market on its own. Are we talking about the B1G liking getting games in Atlanta?

Big10 has a lot of alum in ATL and the SouthEast so that’s appealing to them. Plus it gives them another “in” to the hotbed of recruiting which is the SE. Plus I can see some pettiness from them and wanting to get a foot in the door in the ever growing SEC footprint. Tech/ATL has everything the league wants in that regards and it’s a bonus we have a great academic reputation and a strong name up here in the Midwest too. I actually think we get more respect as a school up north than we do in the south.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Points ignored:
Clemson took the big step forward in 2013 with the hiring of Brent Venables. When he leaves let's see what happens. VT is a great example of this.
All this talk of money is great and we could always use more....but I think a lot of this board has gotten amnesia about Tech...Academics. We can only recruit certain players and only certain players will look at us.
If Miami and FSU got back to where they were then the ACC would be just as strong as the SEC. The SEC is Alabama and right now Georgia. Texas A&M is in prove it year and then the rest of the conference drops off.
If Miami, FSU and Clemson were top, of course that would pretty much guarantee no undefeated teams, add in UNC, the rest of the conference matches with the rest of the SEC.

You've ignored some points as well. UF, Tennessee, LSU, and Auburn are also historical powerhouses, most with more recent national success than Miami and FSU. Brent Venables was hired because Radakovich broke open the treasury to fund the Clemson football program. Your assumption that Clemson will fold without Venables similar to VT is a stretch. Clemson can and will be able to afford to hire in the very best, and their culture is such that they have a reputation as a place assistants are treated very well. They will probably have a year or two of only 10 wins then bounce right back.

As for academics, that's not a new issue. Many schools juggle elite academics and sports. There are ways to do it. At the end of the day, while academics is a hurdle, it's not a cyanide pill either.

 

[TooTall]

The cash thing doesn't fully make sense to me. Texas and Oklahoma are two of the most cash rich programs in the country. Texas brings in more money than anyone. They absolutely dwarf Alabama in revenue already. Are we really to believe that they desperately wanted 15 million more on top of the 220 million+ they were already bringing in? Something just doesn't fully add up there.

If there was a thing as too much money, then why hasn't Warren Buffett left the stock market? Its all about getting more. Always has been and always will be.

 

[WreckinGT]

Simple. Everyone knows Texas is one good coach away from competing nationally again. They are still a recruiting powerhouse. Once they solve the coach issue they will be a force again. You can't solve that issue at their level without money. Not only for coaches and assistants, but for facilities to stay ahead in the arms race. Everyone said Texas A&M would be a doormat in the SEC as well. How did that prediction work out?

This still doesn't make sense. Texas already has more money than everyone. Far more than programs like UGA, Alabama, and LSU. They have enough money to build whatever they want and pay whoever they want any amount they want. Going to the SEC doesn't change that at all.

 

[Coloradojacket]

You've ignored some points as well. UF, Tennessee, LSU, and Auburn are also historical powerhouses, most with more recent national success than Miami and FSU. Brent Venables was hired because Radakovich broke open the treasury to fund the Clemson football program. Your assumption that Clemson will fold without Venables similar to VT is a stretch. Clemson can and will be able to afford to hire in the very best, and their culture is such that they have a reputation as a place assistants are treated very well. They will probably have a year or two of only 10 wins then bounce right back.

As for academics, that's not a new issue. Many schools juggle elite academics and sports. There are ways to do it. At the end of the day, while academics is a hurdle, it's not a cyanide pill either.

My point about Venables is not a stretch. It is very hard to replace a very good or excellent coach. Alabama is going to be a nightmare when Saban leaves. Look at FSU, heck look at Texas, they have been on a downturn for a while trying to find a coach. And Texas can get the players and has the money.

coaching is 95% of the success of a football program.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

This still doesn't make sense. Texas already has more money than everyone. Far more than programs like UGA, Alabama, and LSU. They have enough money to build whatever they want and pay whoever they want any amount they want. Going to the SEC doesn't change that at all.

Correct. It keeps them where they are, which is at the top of the financial mountain. The Big-12s next contract is likely to be far less, and Texas would lose money by staying there, or they could move to the SEC and continue to haul in tons of money. Not to mention the buzz of Texas in the SEC likely generates excitement for their program that helps them move forward.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

My point about Venables is not a stretch. It is very hard to replace a very good or excellent coach. Alabama is going to be a nightmare when Saban leaves. Look at FSU, heck look at Texas, they have been on a downturn for a while trying to find a coach. And Texas can get the players and has the money.

coaching is 95% of the success of a football program.

Bama replaces good coordinators all the time. The best teams often do. Having copious cash allows you to be choosy with the replacement quality.

 

[ChicagobasedJacket]

The cash thing doesn't fully make sense to me. Texas and Oklahoma are two of the most cash rich programs in the country. Texas brings in more money than anyone. They absolutely dwarf Alabama in revenue already. Are we really to believe that they desperately wanted 15 million more on top of the 220 million+ they were already bringing in? Something just doesn't fully add up there.

I thought the same thing and then realized it’s called greed my friend. Also, Texas probably thinks A&M surpassed them in football standing due to improved recruiting after joining the SEC. For what’s it worth, Texas struggles with development

 

[Coloradojacket]

Funny, I was looking at the last 6-7 years and now I see why Texas wants to leave the B12......They can't beat TCU. lol....

 

[WreckinGT]

Funny, I was looking at the last 6-7 years and now I see why Texas wants to leave the B12......They can't beat TCU. lol....

But somehow going to the SEC with a 5-10% increase in revenue is going to right the ship. Texas has internal problems they need to resolve. They won't be competitive in any conference until they do.

 

[Technut1990]

How are you going to do that? Maybe it's happened, but I can't ever remember a school being kicked out of a conference.

yeah my entire premise is based on stuff happening that hasn’t happened before. If The SEC is gonna go national with powerhouse teams it may initiate a response from The ACC, more than others, to change their entire brand. I don’t know how the ACC can keep its top tier teams happy with the bottom tier straining the product. This is a problem that I feel is more unique to The ACC b/c if you look at the conference in comparison to the others, they have more mid to low quality products.

I mean if The SEC is truly going for super conference status, Vandy will have to make a decision. They can stay and be the one sure win on everyone’s schedule or they can leave for more equal footing. I feel that’s the type of problem the ACC overall has. As far as Duke and Wake and BC goes, overall they hurt the product that The ACC is putting in the national spotlight.

it’s almost like divisions in high school, schools are separated based on size, I guess the thinking in that is that the smaller schools don’t have the athlete resources the bigger ones do. I mean you see it in every location, rural districts usually have one or two schools, in the entire county and they are usually powerhouses, as the population in the district grows the base gets thinner so they have to slot them in smaller classes that are competitive. I just think the time has come for The Dukes and Wakes to be playing in a smaller class, they are AAA while The SEC is already AAAAA

 

[UpperNorth]

Coach Collins needs to get on the phone with WaHo, Coke, Home Depot, and Delta and get them to buy us out of our GOR! He’s been hyping them everyday for 963 straight days, hasn’t missed a day! They owe us (Kidding btw)

 

[Coloradojacket]

I found this interesting, I was listening to XM College football and they had the commissioner for the PAC12 on. They were talking about expansion and other things but what was really interesting is they have formed a committee to.....find a way to make the PAC12 less balanced. They feel that they they need to make sure 1-2 teams are much better than the rest to get in the CFP. He also said CFP expansion is no where near reality yet because the SEC is the only conference actively lookin gat it.

 

[Coloradojacket]

yeah my entire premise is based on stuff happening that hasn’t happened before. If The SEC is gonna go national with powerhouse teams it may initiate a response from The ACC, more than others, to change their entire brand. I don’t know how the ACC can keep its top tier teams happy with the bottom tier straining the product. This is a problem that I feel is more unique to The ACC b/c if you look at the conference in comparison to the others, they have more mid to low quality products.

I mean if The SEC is truly going for super conference status, Vandy will have to make a decision. They can stay and be the one sure win on everyone’s schedule or they can leave for more equal footing. I feel that’s the type of problem the ACC overall has. As far as Duke and Wake and BC goes, overall they hurt the product that The ACC is putting in the national spotlight.

it’s almost like divisions in high school, schools are separated based on size, I guess the thinking in that is that the smaller schools don’t have the athlete resources the bigger ones do. I mean you see it in every location, rural districts usually have one or two schools, in the entire county and they are usually powerhouses, as the population in the district grows the base gets thinner so they have to slot them in smaller classes that are competitive. I just think the time has come for The Dukes and Wakes to be playing in a smaller class, they are AAA while The SEC is already AAAAA

Um...we are on that bottom tier and in fact FSU is there right now as well. Wake may actually be above us now. Tradition seems to mean less and less.

 

[Technut1990]

I found this interesting, I was listening to XM College football and they had the commissioner for the PAC12 on. They were talking about expansion and other things but what was really interesting is they have formed a committee to.....find a way to make the PAC12 less balanced. They feel that they they need to make sure 1-2 teams are much better than the rest to get in the CFP. He also said CFP expansion is no where near reality yet because the SEC is the only conference actively lookin gat it.

well that’s another way to say they only care about money. Imagine a commissioner actually saying we only want Clemson and NC doing good so they can get in the playoffs and give the conference high payouts.

if I were the other schools I’d be forming a committee to leave the PAC 12. It should piss the admin of any school off to essentially be told the conference is going to rig it so that you never make it to the playoffs.

 

[RonJohn]

......
Until The Admin at Tech shows a willingness to invest in sports at a high level we should stay out of the deep water. If and only if Tech is willing to increase its AD budget significantly should we be playing in the SEC now or when the new version of it is revealed. .....

I have pointed this out many times in the past: GT(the school) cannot by regulation provide any more funding to the athletic program. Regulations in Georgia limit P5 programs so that the school and/or student fees can only provide 10% of the athletic budget. GT provides close to 10%. The last time I looked, the mutt school provided much, much less than 10% of their athletic budget.

GT fans cannot look to the school to pay for football. If GT fans want football and the athletic department to have more funding, then they have to buy more tickets, buy more merchandise, and donate more. The mutts received about $15 million more in conference media money. However, their revenue was $89 million more than GT. The school and student fees at the mutts was $3.5 million, while it was $8.2 million at GT. That means that in areas that the fans are responsible for, the mutts pulled in about $79 million more. They get $25 million more in ticket sales, $40 million more in contributions, and about $20 million more in merchandise. Tech gets about $6 million more in the "other" category which includes things such as endowment payments.

We complain a lot about the $15 million difference for SEC money, but that is a small portion of the revenue difference. The school cannot pick up the slack legally. GT fans need to provide $79 million more per year before we complain about SEC money.

 

[Technut1990]

Um...we are on that bottom tier and in fact FSU is there right now as well. Wake may actually be above us now. Tradition seems to mean less and less.

im not arguing with you on that, the only thing on our side is the market we are in and it seems Collins and T Stan are the only ones in admin who are trying to exploit that market

 

[Coloradojacket]

well that’s another way to say they only care about money. Imagine a commissioner actually saying we only want Clemson and NC doing good so they can get in the playoffs and give the conference high payouts.

if I were the other schools I’d be forming a committee to leave the PAC 12. It should piss the admin of any school off to essentially be told the conference is going to rig it so that you never make it to the playoffs.

And what was funny, he admitted it was about the money. He said the other schools would benefit for being losers....welcome to College Football 2021....the year the music died.