Expansion Talk 2021

[TooTall]

Here is a great article as to how this is happening.

The SEC's Master Negotiating Stroke That Paved The Way For Texas and Oklahoma

As the SEC finalized its blockbuster deal to take the CBS game of the week and move it to ESPN in December of 2019, one of the final issues tantalizing SEC commissioner Greg Sankey

www.outkick.com

Key paragraph: "Well, look out, the SEC is loaded with cash, and any A list candidate is probably guaranteed more money with the SEC than they can make anywhere else. That’s especially the case because the Pac-12, Big 12, and Big Ten all have TV contracts set to expire soon. And the ACC is locked into an inferior deal for years to come."

I fully believe that we have the right commissioner now, but too much damage has been done. If the TV deal is not redone by the time the $ec Texas OU thing actually happens, we need to jump ship to the Big10. At that point it will be survival of the fittest and CGC should have the train rolling by then.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

You could say GT was every big as good at Clemson (if not better) before 2011. What changed? Good leadership, a good HC that recruited well, and confluence of events that worked in Clemson's favor. There's no reason, with the extra $20 million that we can't hire another Bobby Ross/Friedgen/O'Leary team or find another coach with an equivalent system like Paul Johnson's. GT just needs to make good decisions and stop getting in our own way.

The four recruiting classes before Dabo took over were ranked 17, 16, 16, and 12 by Rivals. Dabo took a program that was recruiting extremely well and made it even better. We will be another 3-4 years of recruiting at the current level before we approach where Clemson started under Dabo.

As much as GT fans hate to admit it, the Clemson turnaround is also because their AD committed to spending money to hire and retain some of the best assistants in the NCAA. Clemson spends in the top 10 in football spending. We'd have to generate an additional $20 million (yearly) today just to catch up with Clemson. Even with the extra revenue, we have to find a way to close that gap. An extra $20 mil from a conference change is going to each school, so using it to lure coaches means we are still trying to outbid schools with more money than us. That isn't going to change any time soon.

As you said, we would be unwise not to do whatever it takes to make sure we are included in any upcoming changes. The problem is we don't bring any leverage to the table other than association with the ACC and an historic rivalry with uga. The ATL tv market belongs as much to the SEC as it does to GT. We've got to fix that issue fast...

 

[Technut1990]

Couple of things here:

1. Scheduling doesn't work the way you're suggesting it does. GT isn't going to face a murderer's row of Georgia, Clemson, Alabama, LSU, Texas A&M, Florida, Florida St, Tenn, Texas, Oklahoma every year. Not even 'Bama and Clemson survives that unscathed.

2. The reason why GT hasn't been able to afford putting money into our programs is the poor decisions of leaving the SEC and turning down the B1G. Our program has lost HUNDREDS of millions of dollars due to the decision of leaving the SEC, and we are losing 15-20+ million each year since we turned down the B1G. When the new SEC and B1G come to fruition, the already big gap between the SEC/B1G and everyone else will get even bigger. It doesn't matter how much better GT or the ACC gets, that gap will not close...Texas, OU, and ND are NOT joining the ACC. If you don't see that, and if you don't see the tectonic shift in college sports coming where GT could be on the outside looking in by not joining the B1G or SEC (most likely not going to happen given the UGA issue) then I don't think you need to worry about anything. A change is coming regardless if you think it is or not...GT can either be a part of winners, or we can become of the losers living off table scraps like teams outside of the P5 are now. We've already made 2 poor decisions that hurt our program, let's not let the 3rd poor decision doom it.

I do think change is coming Techster, we don’t disagree on that.

As for the schedule, we can’t know the schedule because we don’t know the entire group of members the conference would have that’s why I listed those we know will be in it. I know we won’t face every team that’s in the conference but we will face 8-10 of them and that was my point, there aren’t any pushovers in the current SEC and the only way there will be in the future is if they merged ALL of the ACC schools, so Tech is gonna play the power houses one way or another.

I never said Texas or Oklahoma would join the the ACC but we know Texas and Oklahoma are headed to the SEC.

I would love for Tech to reengage in the old Southern match ups, it would be wonderful. But you need to remember that when those match ups were taking place Tech was ALREADY a football powerhouse, unfortunately they aren’t anymore. You are most likely correct as to why they aren’t but my point is this ; No modern fan base is going to buy season tickets or a TV package for that matter to watch a team get beaten regularly. I would initially but after 3-4 seasons of 3-9 years and blow out losses to the teams who are powerhouse teams it will get old. Gate sales will decrease as well. Tech will have entered into the SEC for a share of the money and nothing more. I’m against that for exactly the reason you gave, Tech may increase revenue ( via SEC TV share ) but it isn’t going to catch up to Bama, Georgia, Florida or any other powerhouse by playing by their rules.

I said that if Tech stays in the ACC it should only do so if the ACC can get ND OR if they miss ND and then aggressively go after the remaining Big 12 teams. The ACC and Tech can essentially stay competitive nationally if they have marketable teams. I think they need to lose Duke and Wake, IF they could replace them with Ok St, Texas Tech or even TCU that alone would be a marked improvement of and in competition. It would enable Tech to expand recruiting into Texas and the Central part of the country and Tech would only have to make minimal adjustments in its athletic budget.

im not looking to join a conference that I’m behind in when you just said we won’t ever catch up. If your goal is just to make money then ok it works for that but you better get use to some very unproductive and uninspiring numbers out of the sports programs themselves. No way Tech competes in that conference with the current mindset it has administratively.

 

[Technut1990]

Here is a great article as to how this is happening.

The SEC's Master Negotiating Stroke That Paved The Way For Texas and Oklahoma

As the SEC finalized its blockbuster deal to take the CBS game of the week and move it to ESPN in December of 2019, one of the final issues tantalizing SEC commissioner Greg Sankey

www.outkick.com

Key paragraph: "Well, look out, the SEC is loaded with cash, and any A list candidate is probably guaranteed more money with the SEC than they can make anywhere else. That’s especially the case because the Pac-12, Big 12, and Big Ten all have TV contracts set to expire soon. And the ACC is locked into an inferior deal for years to come."

I fully believe that we have the right commissioner now, but too much damage has been done. If the TV deal is not redone by the time the $ec Texas OU thing actually happens, we need to jump ship to the Big10. At that point it will be survival of the fittest and CGC should have the train rolling by then.

the only way the ACC gets a productive new TV deal is to get ND, without them ESPN has no interest In renegotiating the current ACC deal, which desperately needs to happen. As for the future, The ACC will need the other Texas schools to improve the next deal it enters into ( if it’s without ND ), they have to capture more TV markets.

 

[TooTall]

Why all the Duke hate? I mean they area top level basketball program. Id rather get rid of syracuse, bc and wake before i even think about gettin rid of Duke.

 

[BCJacket]

I keep seeing people saying that the SEC isn't an option for Tech because uGA wouldn't want us. (I realize that's been a perceived hurdle in the past.) But TAMU clearly doesn't want UT and OU coming in and... well, tough nutz apparently. GT doesn't have the cache (or cash) of those programs. But if the SEC is going big and adding 10 programs. GT checks a lot of boxes: academics, ATLANTA, trophies that aren't too dusty, our brand is viewed better nationally (and internationally) than it is locally, the MBS deal, TStan is very respected in athletics admin circles (eg getting chosen as the ACC CFP rep after one year at Tech) and we do have money*, it just hasn't often been tapped or leveraged very well (See AI2020). (Not UT money, but solid P5.)

UGA (and UF, and USCe) may not want to let an in-state school in. But the TX, AL, MS, TN, and others will have more votes. If it turns into the SEC and B1G raiding the other conferences, Tech will not be as far down the list as some seem to think. Not suggesting we're at the top - Clemson, FSU, UM clearly are the prizes. But Tech is in the next group. Would the other 15 SEC schools rather have Tech on their schedules or tOSU, PSU, etc, playing in downtown Atlanta every year? A lot more to it than that, but Tech definitely has some things to bring to the table.

 

[Techster]

The four recruiting classes before Dabo took over were ranked 17, 16, 16, and 12 by Rivals. Dabo took a program that was recruiting extremely well and made it even better. We will be another 3-4 years of recruiting at the current level before we approach where Clemson started under Dabo.

As much as GT fans hate to admit it, the Clemson turnaround is also because their AD committed to spending money to hire and retain some of the best assistants in the NCAA. Clemson spends in the top 10 in football spending. We'd have to generate an additional $20 million (yearly) today just to catch up with Clemson. Even with the extra revenue, we have to find a way to close that gap. An extra $20 mil from a conference change is going to each school, so using it to lure coaches means we are still trying to outbid schools with more money than us. That isn't going to change any time soon.

As you said, we would be unwise not to do whatever it takes to make sure we are included in any upcoming changes. The problem is we don't bring any leverage to the table other than association with the ACC and an historic rivalry with uga. The ATL tv market belongs as much to the SEC as it does to GT. We've got to fix that issue fast...

We are not worth anything to SEC because of UGA is technically the "Atlanta" market. We are worth a LOT to the B1G...that's why they asked us to join in the last round of expansion.

It's great that Clemson had those recruiting classes, but they've always recruited well, and GT was consistently beating them. That's part of the point I'm making...what happens to GT is up to GT. Clemson made smart decisions, spent money on good assistants, and now they are reaping the rewards.

 

[Technut1990]

Why all the Duke hate? I mean they area top level basketball program. Id rather get rid of syracuse, bc and wake before i even think about gettin rid of Duke.

im not really hating on Duke the point is more toward getting rid of the lower end of the conference. For some reason I’m hung up on Baylor but with that said Duke and NC are about to experience something in Hoops that they haven’t seen in my lifetime. Coach K was Duke, they won’t be themselves after next year.

im with you on Syracuse and BC. Turn they won’t go because of TV markets

 

[WreckinGT]

Here is a great article as to how this is happening.

The SEC's Master Negotiating Stroke That Paved The Way For Texas and Oklahoma

As the SEC finalized its blockbuster deal to take the CBS game of the week and move it to ESPN in December of 2019, one of the final issues tantalizing SEC commissioner Greg Sankey

www.outkick.com

Key paragraph: "Well, look out, the SEC is loaded with cash, and any A list candidate is probably guaranteed more money with the SEC than they can make anywhere else. That’s especially the case because the Pac-12, Big 12, and Big Ten all have TV contracts set to expire soon. And the ACC is locked into an inferior deal for years to come."

I fully believe that we have the right commissioner now, but too much damage has been done. If the TV deal is not redone by the time the $ec Texas OU thing actually happens, we need to jump ship to the Big10. At that point it will be survival of the fittest and CGC should have the train rolling by then.

The cash thing doesn't fully make sense to me. Texas and Oklahoma are two of the most cash rich programs in the country. Texas brings in more money than anyone. They absolutely dwarf Alabama in revenue already. Are we really to believe that they desperately wanted 15 million more on top of the 220 million+ they were already bringing in? Something just doesn't fully add up there.

 

[Technut1990]

We are not worth anything to SEC because of UGA is technically the "Atlanta" market. We are worth a LOT to the B1G...that's why they asked us to join in the last round of expansion.

It's great that Clemson had those recruiting classes, but they've always recruited well, and GT was consistently beating them. That's part of the point I'm making...what happens to GT is up to GT. Clemson made smart decisions, spent money on good assistants, and now they are reaping the rewards.

agree with this entire statement on its face but it lacks some perspective, Clemson has had money since I’ve been alive AND THEY WILL SPEND IT ON SPORTS, that’s the difference between them and Tech

 

[Techster]

The cash thing doesn't fully make sense to me. Texas and Oklahoma are two of the most cash rich programs in the country. Texas brings in more money than anyone. They absolutely dwarf Alabama in revenue already. Are we really to believe that they desperately wanted 15 million more on top of the 220 million+ they were already bringing in? Something just doesn't fully add up there.

Way too many of you are thinking in terms of the old college business model. The SEC is thinking on levels that hasn't been done within the confines of college sports yet. Texas and Oklahoma are blue blood brands, basically giant franchises, and the SEC aims to collect all of the best franchises for a new business entity. The NCAA may not even be involved when it's all said and done.

 

[WreckinGT]

Way too many of you are thinking in terms of the old college business model. The SEC is thinking on levels that hasn't been done within the confines of college sports yet. Texas and Oklahoma are blue blood brands, basically giant franchises, and the SEC aims to collect all of the best franchises for a new business entity. The NCAA may not even be involved when it's all said and done.

I fully understand the SECs motivation here. Im still not completely sure of the motivation of UT and OU, both of which didn't really need to do this. If it really is just money then it seems rather pointless. This article describes my feelings pretty well: https://slate.com/culture/2021/07/texas-oklahoma-sec-big-12-defection-money.html. They decided to blow up college football for a relatively minor increase (for them) in cash flow.

 

[yeti92]

My understanding, which is limited and maybe wrong, was that it was basically only UGA that didn't want us back in the SEC, and maybe the Miss. schools. UGA is admittedly a bigger player in the SEC than A&M, but if a superconference type situation were to happen I could see UGA getting outvoted and us being added back in.

 

[FlatsLander]

We are not worth anything to SEC because of UGA is technically the "Atlanta" market. We are worth a LOT to the B1G...that's why they asked us to join in the last round of expansion.

It's great that Clemson had those recruiting classes, but they've always recruited well, and GT was consistently beating them. That's part of the point I'm making...what happens to GT is up to GT. Clemson made smart decisions, spent money on good assistants, and now they are reaping the rewards.

I don't understand what is meant by us being desirable as an "Atlanta" market. As I understand it, we are a relatively small fanbase which doesn't have a huge affect on the TV market on its own. Are we talking about the B1G liking getting games in Atlanta?

 

[bobongo]

im not really hating on Duke the point is more toward getting rid of the lower end of the conference.

How are you going to do that? Maybe it's happened, but I can't ever remember a school being kicked out of a conference.

 

[LawTalkin Jacket]

I'm new to the thread, so my apologies if I missed something. I heard roddy jones yesterday opining that if ACC could get ND and PSU (to get out of OSU shadow), then the new money would make it worth their while to join. but its a chicken/egg thing. Not enough money to get them, but if they come, then they would be able to not lose revenue in ACC vs. Big10 and indy. I think this is the way to go, as PSU might want to revive games against Miami and Pitt and BC, Syracuse. I was of the mind that ND and houston would be a way to go and I think that is probable workable because getting ND gets enough $ in new tv deal for it to wok. But the playoff expansion really hurts the effort to get ND.

 

[stech81]

I'm new to the thread, so my apologies if I missed something. I heard roddy jones yesterday opining that if ACC could get ND and PSU (to get out of OSU shadow), then the new money would make it worth their while to join. but its a chicken/egg thing. Not enough money to get them, but if they come, then they would be able to not lose revenue in ACC vs. Big10 and indy. I think this is the way to go, as PSU might want to revive games against Miami and Pitt and BC, Syracuse. I was of the mind that ND and houston would be a way to go and I think that is probable workable because getting ND gets enough $ in new tv deal for it to wok. But the playoff expansion really hurts the effort to get ND.

Penn STATE will not leave the. Big 10 why would you take less money.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Clemson made smart decisions, spent money on good assistants, and now they are reaping the rewards.

So where do we make up the funding shortfall to compete with factories for quality assistants? That's the point that keeps getting ignored in all of this.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

The cash thing doesn't fully make sense to me. Texas and Oklahoma are two of the most cash rich programs in the country. Texas brings in more money than anyone. They absolutely dwarf Alabama in revenue already. Are we really to believe that they desperately wanted 15 million more on top of the 220 million+ they were already bringing in? Something just doesn't fully add up there.

Yes. It takes tons of money to stay on top. Texas is forward thinking in this.

 

[WreckinGT]

Yes. It takes tons of money to stay on top. Texas is forward thinking in this.

They aren't exactly on top now in spite of generating more revenue than any other program. What logic exists that says playing an SEC schedule with 235 million dollars a year will make them really successful when they couldn't succeed with 220 million in the Big 12?