Expansion Talk 2021

[RonJohn]

*Nebraska*

Nebraska was a member of the AAU when they joined the Big10. They were expelled from the AAU a few years later, but they were an active member to begin with.

 

[Techster]

Nebraska was a member of the AAU when they joined the Big10. They were expelled from the AAU a few years later, but they were an active member to begin with.

You are correct. For some reason I thought they were never AAU...

Nebraska loses AAU status

During the Big Ten's expansion study, league officials often listed membership in the American Association of Universities as a trait they'd like in any new member.

www.espn.com

On a separate note, that article points out Notre Dame is not AAU which is shocking to me...but Notre Dame is a top 50 US News ranked school. Let's be honest, B1G would sacrifice the state of Minnesota to get Notre Dame.

Our Members | Association of American Universities (AAU)

AAU includes 71 distinguished public and private research universities dedicated to improving human life through education, research, and discovery.

www.aau.edu

I guess there's always Stoney Brook for B1G!

 

[Technut1990]

OK, get ND in the ACC fold ASAP. Pick a second team that adds fans and/or prestige without having joke academics. This means Navy instead of WV.

But, thinking outside of the box, who are some other big name schools we could go after?

Im big on Baylor. They are a good basketball school, academics fit and it’s a big market. If not them with ND I’d be completely ok with ND taking Tech to the Big 10. If The ACC can’t get ND they can’t compete with the SEC or Big 10. Any two that are left in the Big 12 would equal 1 ND. It’s got to be ND + one, or 3 however many they take ND has to be among them

 

[orientalnc]

Im big on Baylor. They are a good basketball school, academics fit and it’s a big market.

Waco is a smaller market than Macon, Georgia. There are likely more Texas fans in Waco than Baylor fans. Probably more alums as well.

 

[RonJohn]

You are correct. For some reason I thought they were never AAU...

Nebraska loses AAU status

During the Big Ten's expansion study, league officials often listed membership in the American Association of Universities as a trait they'd like in any new member.

www.espn.com

On a separate note, that article points out Notre Dame is not AAU which is shocking to me...but Notre Dame is a top 50 US News ranked school. Let's be honest, B1G would sacrifice the state of Minnesota to get Notre Dame.

Our Members | Association of American Universities (AAU)

AAU includes 71 distinguished public and private research universities dedicated to improving human life through education, research, and discovery.

www.aau.edu

I guess there's always Stoney Brook for B1G!

I provided a list earlier of schools that the Big10 could go after if there is a big conference shakeup:

It has been Big10 policy for a long time, and they make more money than any conference.

If there is a huge shakeup, grant-of-rights goes out the window, and the Big10 wants to expand they could go after:

GT
Iowa State
Texas A&M (They might be upset about Texas joining the SEC)
Cal
UCLA
Kansas
UNC
Oregon
Pitt
UVA
Washington
Duke
Stanford
USC

They would have plenty of options and still stick to AAU schools only.

 

[Technut1990]

Waco is a smaller market than Macon, Georgia. There are likely more Texas fans in Waco than Baylor fans. Probably more alums as well.

Avg attendance for home games is 45,000, stats look about like Tech. Dallas TV market, it’s about TV markets. Dallas has twice the population than Atlanta, Plus it’s Texas everything is bigger than you think

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

The ACC isn't going to add a 15th and 16th team just for the hell of having the same number of teams as the SEC. Period. It's just further dilutes an already small pie.

The SEC and B1G are already significantly higher than the ACC in yearly payouts. That has to change quickly for the ACC to remain competitive.

Most of the SEC and B1G schools are very large public schools. More alumni = more fans = more eyeballs and tv ratings.

The Wake Forest and Boston College types destroy the ACC. We aren't dumping them so we're kind of stuck. The only fix to more money per year is adding Notre Dame. Are they willing to do it? At what cost?

What are the other possibilities?
West Va -Hell no brings nothing
UCF - Big school but we already have the Florida market with Miami and FSU
Cincinnati - Louisville-lite and isn't going to move a single needle
Houston - Definitely a new market and to hell with the academics this is about cash. Keep them on the short list if we needed to add someone
Kansas, K-State, Iowa State, TCU, Baylor - All a quick no thanks
Oklahoma St or Texas Tech - Big enough to consider

The real prizes after Notre Dame that are realistic (LOL at Penn State suggestions) are Southern Cal, UCLA, Stanford, and Oregon. Perhaps Colorado or Washington. There needs to be a football only conference here. Could ND join if there's some sort of scheduling agreement where they get USC, Stanford, BC/Pitt, GT, and Miami most years? Those are either the schools they want to play or the markets they want to play in. This isn't about keeping up with the SEC in size; it's about keeping up with the SEC and B1G in money.

 

[augustabuzz]

You are correct. For some reason I thought they were never AAU...

Nebraska loses AAU status

During the Big Ten's expansion study, league officials often listed membership in the American Association of Universities as a trait they'd like in any new member.

www.espn.com

On a separate note, that article points out Notre Dame is not AAU which is shocking to me...but Notre Dame is a top 50 US News ranked school. Let's be honest, B1G would sacrifice the state of Minnesota to get Notre Dame.

Our Members | Association of American Universities (AAU)

AAU includes 71 distinguished public and private research universities dedicated to improving human life through education, research, and discovery.

www.aau.edu

I guess there's always Stoney Brook for B1G!

The AAU is about research money. After an ACC presidents meeting, the president of Duke said to Tech's president, "I'll see you at the meeting next week." The Tech president said , "What meeting?" The Duke president was incredulous that Tech was not a member. IIRC at the time Tech was in the top 10 in research$ and the only one without a med school.

 

[Techster]

I provided a list earlier of schools that the Big10 could go after if there is a big conference shakeup:

I was being facetious about Stony Brook. If B1G isn't coming after GT, I honestly don't really care who they go after as long as it doesn't affect GT (stealing away ACC teams and destroying our conference which would affect our bottomline).

I'm not worried about GT though. We're still a really good sports team for the most part. At one point we were tied for the 2nd longest bowl streak, and GT tends be a consistently competitive football team historically even if we're not an "elite" football program. Our basketball team was historically good, with decade lost in the wilderness, but Pastner seems to have found his footing and our BBall team is trending in the right direction. Our non revenue teams are usually either really good (Golf, baseball) or competitive.

It helps that GT is in the most important market in the South. Outside of the SEC, GT is a prime target. Of course, a lot of this is moot for 15 years due to GOR...but 15 years comes at you fast.

 

[D-man44]

Navy? I thought we were trying to ensure the ACC stays in the mix.

 

[UpperNorth]

-Texas and OK are not interested in any other conference. From what I’ve read, they reached out to the SEC. They see it as the greatest opportunity for them and the best cultural/geographic fit.

-The SEC Conference has won this whole conference expansion thing. Credit them. Sadly they don’t value academics to the level of any other power conference but they made the right moves that has put them in an advantageous position today. Btw, not sure if this was planned but had they acquired Texas first, they likely would’ve had a more difficult time getting A&M second. Texas would’ve been at the table on that discussion. As it is they have the 2 most powerful Texas schools leaving other conferences to consider reaching out to the ‘other’ Texas schools.

-Let’s not lose our minds too much on this. I’m not so sure the biggest losers in this aren’t teams like USCe, Ark, ole Miss, Miss St, Mizzou… Those programs will have plenty of money but will they ever actually compete for a championship? I’d rather be UNC or even Tech right now. We’re recruiting on par with some of those teams but have a much better chance at making a 12 team playoff than any of them in the near future.

-I admire the ACC for being loyal and valuing academics during our last expansions but I’ve never, not once have I been excited about playing: BC, Pitt, or Syracuse. And as much as I appreciate some of the epic basketball played in the 80’s and 90s, I don’t see what NC St or Wake have done for the conference as a whole for the last nearly 20 years. Now we’re married to those teams and other programs whose football programs have steadily dropped since joining the league. Not saying the conference is unsalvageable but when you start throwing out the ideas of luring ND, Penn State, and even Texas A&M you have to consider who we are as conference. Not saying it’s impossible but looking at the trend of conference earnings, the ACC obviously didn’t do a good job with our last expansions.

-Our best chances to position ourselves for the next realignment is to continue to get better, continue to leverage our location in Atlanta, and continue building our brand. Do that and maybe we have a chance to either stay in an improving ACC or down the line jump to the Big 10.

-and for what it’s worth I don’t see the PAC 12 going anywhere, at least their member schools make sense together, unlike the current ACC. They should go out and consider adding a couple of schools to help increase conference revenue but at the end of the day, their current members are good cultural fits and don’t see them jumping ship.

 

[Technut1990]

-Texas and OK are not interested in any other conference. From what I’ve read, they reached out to the SEC. They see it as the greatest opportunity for them and the best cultural/geographic fit.

-The SEC Conference has won this whole conference expansion thing. Credit them. Sadly they don’t value academics to the level of any other power conference but they made the right moves that has put them in an advantageous position today. Btw, not sure if this was planned but had they acquired Texas first, they likely would’ve had a more difficult time getting A&M second. Texas would’ve been at the table on that discussion. As it is they have the 2 most powerful Texas schools leaving other conferences to consider reaching out to the ‘other’ Texas schools.

-Let’s not lose our minds too much on this. I’m not so sure the biggest losers in this aren’t teams like USCe, Ark, ole Miss, Miss St, Mizzou… Those programs will have plenty of money but will they ever actually compete for a championship? I’d rather be UNC or even Tech right now. We’re recruiting on par with some of those teams but have a much better chance at making a 12 team playoff than any of them in the near future.

-I admire the ACC for being loyal and valuing academics during our last expansions but I’ve never, not once have I been excited about playing: BC, Pitt, or Syracuse. And as much as I appreciate some of the epic basketball played in the 80’s and 90s, I don’t see what NC St or Wake have done for the conference as a whole for the last nearly 20 years. Now we’re married to those teams and other programs whose football programs have steadily dropped since joining the league. Not saying the conference is unsalvageable but when you start throwing out the ideas of luring ND, Penn State, and even Texas A&M you have to consider who we are as conference. Not saying it’s impossible but looking at the trend of conference earnings, the ACC obviously didn’t do a good job with our last expansions.

-Our best chances to position ourselves for the next realignment is to continue to get better, continue to leverage our location in Atlanta, and continue building our brand. Do that and maybe we have a chance to either stay in an improving ACC or down the line jump to the Big 10.

-and for what it’s worth I don’t see the PAC 12 going anywhere, at least their member schools make sense together, unlike the current ACC. They should go out and consider adding a couple of schools to help increase conference revenue but at the end of the day, their current members are good cultural fits and don’t see them jumping ship.

yeah I think most of us just want the ACC to be aggressive. If they get ND and any other school it’s a win for them plus I think it keeps Clemson, NC, Miami and Fla St happy.

can you imagine being Vanderbilt right now ? ( football wise ) How do you ever compete in the SEC ?

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

-Texas and OK are not interested in any other conference. From what I’ve read, they reached out to the SEC. They see it as the greatest opportunity for them and the best cultural/geographic fit.

-The SEC Conference has won this whole conference expansion thing. Credit them. Sadly they don’t value academics to the level of any other power conference but they made the right moves that has put them in an advantageous position today. Btw, not sure if this was planned but had they acquired Texas first, they likely would’ve had a more difficult time getting A&M second. Texas would’ve been at the table on that discussion. As it is they have the 2 most powerful Texas schools leaving other conferences to consider reaching out to the ‘other’ Texas schools.

-Let’s not lose our minds too much on this. I’m not so sure the biggest losers in this aren’t teams like USCe, Ark, ole Miss, Miss St, Mizzou… Those programs will have plenty of money but will they ever actually compete for a championship? I’d rather be UNC or even Tech right now. We’re recruiting on par with some of those teams but have a much better chance at making a 12 team playoff than any of them in the near future.

-I admire the ACC for being loyal and valuing academics during our last expansions but I’ve never, not once have I been excited about playing: BC, Pitt, or Syracuse. And as much as I appreciate some of the epic basketball played in the 80’s and 90s, I don’t see what NC St or Wake have done for the conference as a whole for the last nearly 20 years. Now we’re married to those teams and other programs whose football programs have steadily dropped since joining the league. Not saying the conference is unsalvageable but when you start throwing out the ideas of luring ND, Penn State, and even Texas A&M you have to consider who we are as conference. Not saying it’s impossible but looking at the trend of conference earnings, the ACC obviously didn’t do a good job with our last expansions.

-Our best chances to position ourselves for the next realignment is to continue to get better, continue to leverage our location in Atlanta, and continue building our brand. Do that and maybe we have a chance to either stay in an improving ACC or down the line jump to the Big 10.

-and for what it’s worth I don’t see the PAC 12 going anywhere, at least their member schools make sense together, unlike the current ACC. They should go out and consider adding a couple of schools to help increase conference revenue but at the end of the day, their current members are good cultural fits and don’t see them jumping ship.

Who? Only BYU could possibly bring them more money but then they have all the scheduling quirks. Boise St isn't doing anything for them. Neither are the Big 12 leftovers other than maybe Texas Tech and Oklahoma State but that would even be minor.

Adding in schools in numbers doesn't increase the total payouts so everyone gets more. You have to add quality and eyeballs. And the PAC-12, like the ACC, is already behind the SEC and Big Ten. Maybe they do need a football only merger just to keep pace.

 

[JacketOff]

-Let’s not lose our minds too much on this. I’m not so sure the biggest losers in this aren’t teams like USCe, Ark, ole Miss, Miss St, Mizzou… Those programs will have plenty of money but will they ever actually compete for a championship? I’d rather be UNC or even Tech right now. We’re recruiting on par with some of those teams but have a much better chance at making a 12 team playoff than any of them in the near future.

Now THIS is a fantastic point. It’s the exact reason why I keep saying GT joining the B1G would be an act in futility. Sure there would be more money involved, but you’d be moving into a much larger pond as a relatively small fish.

 

[Coloradojacket]

The ACC isn't going to add a 15th and 16th team just for the hell of having the same number of teams as the SEC. Period. It's just further dilutes an already small pie.

The SEC and B1G are already significantly higher than the ACC in yearly payouts. That has to change quickly for the ACC to remain competitive.

Most of the SEC and B1G schools are very large public schools. More alumni = more fans = more eyeballs and tv ratings.

The Wake Forest and Boston College types destroy the ACC. We aren't dumping them so we're kind of stuck. The only fix to more money per year is adding Notre Dame. Are they willing to do it? At what cost?

What are the other possibilities?
West Va -Hell no brings nothing
UCF - Big school but we already have the Florida market with Miami and FSU
Cincinnati - Louisville-lite and isn't going to move a single needle
Houston - Definitely a new market and to hell with the academics this is about cash. Keep them on the short list if we needed to add someone
Kansas, K-State, Iowa State, TCU, Baylor - All a quick no thanks
Oklahoma St or Texas Tech - Big enough to consider

The real prizes after Notre Dame that are realistic (LOL at Penn State suggestions) are Southern Cal, UCLA, Stanford, and Oregon. Perhaps Colorado or Washington. There needs to be a football only conference here. Could ND join if there's some sort of scheduling agreement where they get USC, Stanford, BC/Pitt, GT, and Miami most years? Those are either the schools they want to play or the markets they want to play in. This isn't about keeping up with the SEC in size; it's about keeping up with the SEC and B1G in money.

Well coming from Colorado where there is no highschool or college football other than Air Force, that is a non starter. As for not adding UCF, UCF and USF are the largest schools in Florida.

As I said, I think or answer comes in
1. FSU and Miami to resurge, which of course the rest of the ACC will suffer in the W and L category
2. Get the Comcast deal done. Comcast brings in 21 million subscribers/households all in ACC country.

 

[Technut1990]

CBS now reporting that Texas and Oklahoma will announce the decision to leave the Big 12 soon however their buy outs on the GORs is 70 million each. Both are prepared to wait until 2025 to join the SEC. ( I suspect the SEC will help out with the buy outs, 4 years is a bit lengthy wait time)

Both also decided to leave back in December and DID NOT HAVE A PREFERRED CONFERENCE TO GO TO.

Sounds like this is gonna drag out and it sounds like The ACC was either caught unaware or was outbid. I wonder if things would have been different had we given ND an ultimatum last year.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Isn't Texas A&M already mediocre? They just have a crap ton of alumni and a 100,000 seat stadium always full. That's their allure.

Yes, but when they have losing seasons in the ACC they will have even less tv appeal.

 

[JacketOff]

CBS now reporting that Texas and Oklahoma will announce the decision to leave the Big 12 soon however their buy outs on the GORs is 70 million each. Both are prepared to wait until 2025 to join the SEC. ( I suspect the SEC will help out with the buy outs, 4 years is a bit lengthy wait time)

Both also decided to leave back in December and DID NOT HAVE A PREFERRED CONFERENCE TO GO TO.

Sounds like this is gonna drag out and it sounds like The ACC was either caught unaware or was outbid. I wonder if things would have been different had we given ND an ultimatum last year.

Texas and Oklahoma were never coming to the ACC. It wouldn’t make sense geographically or financially. It was always going to be the SEC or the B1G

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

CBS now reporting that Texas and Oklahoma will announce the decision to leave the Big 12 soon however their buy outs on the GORs is 70 million each. Both are prepared to wait until 2025 to join the SEC. ( I suspect the SEC will help out with the buy outs, 4 years is a bit lengthy wait time)

Both also decided to leave back in December and DID NOT HAVE A PREFERRED CONFERENCE TO GO TO.

Sounds like this is gonna drag out and it sounds like The ACC was either caught unaware or was outbid. I wonder if things would have been different had we given ND an ultimatum last year.

Highly doubt they were unaware. The SEC and B1G can offer a lot more money. The only way we would compete is a Texas and ND pairing and a new TV contract by doing so.

 

[Technut1990]

I don’t think they lacked a preference. i think they’ve been talking to the SEC for awhile and I dont think they will be waiting 4 years. Why make the announcement now if you are gonna wait that long ?