Expansion Talk 2021

[Coloradojacket]

Now include the rest of their schedule. The committee doesn't look at only half the games.

Ok, Arkansas, Auburn, Miss State, Ole Miss, LSU And we will go back to 2019. Arkansas, 2-10, Miss State 6-7. Auburn 9-4, Ole Miss 4-8, and Yes LSU 14-0 but they have dropped considerably. Alabama was the team to beat and they did not. The SEC West is not exactly the power they pretend to be.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Ok, Arkansas, Auburn, Miss State, Ole Miss, LSU And we will go back to 2019. Arkansas, 2-10, Miss State 6-7. Auburn 9-4, Ole Miss 4-8, and Yes LSU 14-0 but they have dropped considerably. Alabama was the team to beat and they did not. The SEC West is not exactly the power they pretend to be.

Yeah, I think most of us ACC partisans accept that the SEC is hyped and overrated. Essentially they have Alabama, LSU, GA, Florida and Auburn, out of which they hope to get at least 2 national championship contenders each year. If they can get two contenders every year they can argue they are the best conference, no matter how mediocre the rest of the conference is.

The equivalent in the ACC would be if out of UNC, FSU, Virginia Tech, Miami and GA Tech you had two national contenders each year (something I feel like we have been close to a couple of times). If that happened for a few years in a row, suddenly the national image would change and people would forget how mediocre Wake or Duke or Syracuse is.

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

Ok, Arkansas, Auburn, Miss State, Ole Miss, LSU And we will go back to 2019. Arkansas, 2-10, Miss State 6-7. Auburn 9-4, Ole Miss 4-8, and Yes LSU 14-0 but they have dropped considerably. Alabama was the team to beat and they did not. The SEC West is not exactly the power they pretend to be.

It goes in cycles but I'm pretty sure the generally win head to heads against other conferences at a higher rate than anyone else. Still, your assertion was just spin. Kind of like if I said if GT beats NIU, Kennesaw, Duke, UVA, VT, BC, and Pittsburgh that we shouldn't get a shot if we run the table. Kind of asinine to leave off Clemson, Georgia, ND, UNC, and Miami.

 

[ugacdawg]

Apparently, Florida doesn't have the same limits. UF only collects $4.9 million from student fees and school funds, but UCF gets $31 million out of a $69 million budget.

UCF collects almost $24 million in student fees. It seems immoral to me to collect student fees from students, most who are taking out loans and going into debt, in order to subsidize entertainment for middle aged men.

I think this is the big issue for AAC schools like Cincy and UCF that are trying to be the Power 6. They are trying to keep up with the autonomous five on things like stipends and facilities but they only get about $7 million a year in tv money. So places like UCF that has 66k students hits them up for fees. UF has real athletics boosters so they don’t do that. I don’t think LSU collected anything from students last year while Cincinnati has run an athletics deficit of $250 million in just the last 12 years.

For many P5 schools, the endless cash from decades of ESPN raking cable fees from non-sports people is ending as millions cut the cord. Schools like the Irate 8 just don’t get anywhere close to the eyeballs of the two teams that carried them. ESPN isn’t going to be willing to pay their current fees. They could be looking at losing $15 million plus a year.

These types of situations aren’t sustainable and there will probably be a lot more right-sizing coming for any schools that lose the ‘protection of their dominant conference brands and cannot stand on their own.

I haven’t decided if this is ultimately good or bad for college football yet, but it feels inevitable.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

It goes in cycles but I'm pretty sure the generally win head to heads against other conferences at a higher rate than anyone else. Still, your assertion was just spin. Kind of like if I said if GT beats NIU, Kennesaw, Duke, UVA, VT, BC, and Pittsburgh that we shouldn't get a shot if we run the table. Kind of asinine to leave off Clemson, Georgia, ND, UNC, and Miami.

I’ve lost all confidence in the head-to-head method of evaluation. In years ACC wins head-to-head or ties or loses by one game, ESPN and the SEC spin doctors are strangely silent and focus on SEC teams fighting for a national championship. In years the SEC cleans up against the bottom half of our conference, or catches teams having a down year, it suddenly becomes THE yardstick. I just wish the ACC could have years where head to head doesn’t count.

Do any of you remember what happened the last time FSU won a natty? Or the last two times Clemson won? In all instances there were talking heads saying that these teams were “more like SEC teams.” WTF!

 

[yeti92]

Yeah, I think most of us ACC partisans accept that the SEC is hyped and overrated. Essentially they have Alabama, LSU, GA, Florida and Auburn, out of which they hope to get at least 2 national championship contenders each year. If they can get two contenders every year they can argue they are the best conference, no matter how mediocre the rest of the conference is.

The equivalent in the ACC would be if out of UNC, FSU, Virginia Tech, Miami and GA Tech you had two national contenders each year (something I feel like we have been close to a couple of times). If that happened for a few years in a row, suddenly the national image would change and people would forget how mediocre Wake or Duke or Syracuse is.

You forgot A&M on the SEC list and Clemson on the ACC list.

I don't think people would forget how bad those other teams are though - the ACC always seems to have multiple teams with wtf losses to teams like Richmond and the Citadel, which makes everyone go "see most of the ACC sucks"

 

[BleedingWhiteNGold]

Im in the camp of adding West Virginia. I just don’t get excited about anyone else. If we take WV, my issue is how would a 15 team conference work. I can’t figure out a way to make it equitable without adding another. Notre Dame isn’t joining and while I’m in the camp that WV is a good addition (I don’t care about the academics) I don’t think there is a good number 16. I’d rather not get another team named for the city it’s in.

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

Im in the camp of adding West Virginia. I just don’t get excited about anyone else. If we take WV, my issue is how would a 15 team conference work. I can’t figure out a way to make it equitable without adding another. Notre Dame isn’t joining and while I’m in the camp that WV is a good addition (I don’t care about the academics) I don’t think there is a good number 16. I’d rather not get another team named for the city it’s in.

Why do we need anyone to get to 15 unless it's Notre Dame?

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

So after thinking this through, I think Oklahoma and Texas are making a huge mistake. Money, Money for what, paying players...maybe so. Instead of playing their Big 12 teams, some of which they have been unable to beat, they get Alabama, A&M, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, Florida etc. Texas is an 8 win team and maybe a 7 win team in this scenario. Oklahoma, a 9 win team. SEC football is not the Big 12. Texas kids running shotgun spread and no defense will get abused. They will not be able to recruit in Georgia, Florida etc.

You can talk money all you want. Vandy gets SEC money....how is that working out.

You're making all the same arguments people made about Texas A&M when they joined. They've become a better team since joining the SEC. I'm fairly certain that Texas and Oklahoma will be just fine.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I haven’t decided if this is ultimately good or bad for college football yet, but it feels inevitable.

I couldn't agree with this statement more.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Point well taken, but on the other hand I think it's pretty clear that the SEC is a stronger football conference than the Big 12.

I think the SEC has a handful of good teams every year. It’s not always the same teams, so , historically teams fluctuate from good to average, leaving the impression that they’re perennially better than they really are.

Florida, Tennessee, uga, LSU, Auburn, etc. Then you have teams that are mostly bad except when they cheat: MSU, Ole Miss, USC, Vandy. Then you have teams like Arkansas and Missouri.

many given year, half the conference is at or below average P5, 1/3 of what’s left is at or above average, while the other 2/3’s of the second half is really good.

 

[orientalnc]

I believe the SEC is definitely a step above the ACC right now. That's why we are constantly pushing to be more competitive. When we routed Miss State in 2014 we were just one of several ACC teams to beat SEC teas in bowl games. But that world has changed a lot since then. Other than Vandy, which SEC team would be an underdog against Miami or UNC if the game was played this Fall?

Texas and OU will expand that gap until the ACC does something to change it. Don't expect the SEC to help us. Adding ND would help, but the real change needs to be in the middle of the ACC. We and the other middle of the pact teams need to be better than Tennessee and Kentucky and Miss State.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

I believe the SEC is definitely a step above the ACC right now. That's why we are constantly pushing to be more competitive. When we routed Miss State in 2014 we were just one of several ACC teams to beat SEC teas in bowl games. But that world has changed a lot since then. Other than Vandy, which SEC team would be an underdog against Miami or UNC if the game was played this Fall?

Texas and OU will expand that gap until the ACC does something to change it. Don't expect the SEC to help us. Adding ND would help, but the real change needs to be in the middle of the ACC. We and the other middle of the pact teams need to be better than Tennessee and Kentucky and Miss State.

I dont think we will ever do it, but the first thing we need to do is take anyone who can fog a mirror and then do What NC and most other colleges are doing with dumb classes and majors to keep the athletes available to play football. Then GT could build a bigger brand and win more games. Basically we need to SEC ourselves or the gap will only get bigger. Tech needs to be one of the schools that can compete for a NC twice a decade or so along with Clemson, Miami, ND and FSU. Then the ACC would be on better footing with the SEC.

Until we fully commit to winning, we wont

 

[Vespidae]

I’ve lost all confidence in the head-to-head method of evaluation. In years ACC wins head-to-head or ties or loses by one game, ESPN and the SEC spin doctors are strangely silent and focus on SEC teams fighting for a national championship. In years the SEC cleans up against the bottom half of our conference, or catches teams having a down year, it suddenly becomes THE yardstick. I just wish the ACC could have years where head to head doesn’t count.

Do any of you remember what happened the last time FSU won a natty? Or the last two times Clemson won? In all instances there were talking heads saying that these teams were “more like SEC teams.” WTF!

Nobody cares. Bill Bellicheck said it best ... “We look at how the best talent plays against the best talent.” The SEC has the highest percentage of 4&5 stars In the country. He could care less how Bama does against Wake Forest. He’s interested in the Bama - Georgia game. Regardless of the outcome.

As to ESPN, they are selling eyeballs. And nothing turns out like SEC games. In football, the ACC will never replace the SEC as they have neither eyeballs or the talent matchups.

THAT is why the realignments are occurring.

 

[yeti92]

Other than Vandy, which SEC team would be an underdog against Miami or UNC if the game was played this Fall?

Ole Miss, MSU, Missouri, Tennessee, Arkansas, and Kentucky. So half the conference. Not sure if that was a serious question or not.

Edit- I forgot South Carolina, so more than half the conference.

 

[TheNaturalScientist]

I believe the SEC is definitely a step above the ACC right now. That's why we are constantly pushing to be more competitive. When we routed Miss State in 2014 we were just one of several ACC teams to beat SEC teas in bowl games. But that world has changed a lot since then. Other than Vandy, which SEC team would be an underdog against Miami or UNC if the game was played this Fall?

Texas and OU will expand that gap until the ACC does something to change it. Don't expect the SEC to help us. Adding ND would help, but the real change needs to be in the middle of the ACC. We and the other middle of the pact teams need to be better than Tennessee and Kentucky and Miss State.

I agree that the sec is a step above but UT, SC, UK, MSU, Ark, Missouri and probably Ole Miss and Auburn would be underdogs to Miami and UNC this season. That’s roughly 9 teams.

 

[Techster]

I dont think we will ever do it, but the first thing we need to do is take anyone who can fog a mirror and then do What NC and most other colleges are doing with dumb classes and majors to keep the athletes available to play football. Then GT could build a bigger brand and win more games. Basically we need to SEC ourselves or the gap will only get bigger. Tech needs to be one of the schools that can compete for a NC twice a decade or so along with Clemson, Miami, ND and FSU. Then the ACC would be on better footing with the SEC.

Until we fully commit to winning, we wont

Remember when we use to rack our brain about the majors GT could offer in order attract more elite SAs? We literally spent and entire decade looking at GT's course offerings coming up with majors to GT could offer SAs to compare to "factory schools". The thing is, CGC is showing us we don't even need to do that. GT is just fine with who we are. GT is not for everyone, but there are enough elite recruits that do want what GT offers and are willing to do the work. I've said it for years, and now there's a coach that is showing us that it's true.

This year, CGC is starting to bring in the 4 star guys at positions we thought would be recruiting unicorns for GT: 4 star OL and DLs. We have 2 four star DTs committed, 1 four star OL (another on the cusp of being a 4 star). The current class is actually threatening to rival our legendary 2007 class with the amount of 4 star recruits in one class.

We're getting these recruits and CGC hasn't even shown he can win yet. We start winning, and that recruiting ceiling goes even higher.

 

[slugboy]

Ole Miss, MSU, Missouri, Tennessee, Arkansas, and Kentucky. So half the conference. Not sure if that was a serious question or not.

Edit- I forgot South Carolina, so more than half the conference.

I also count about 8 teams they’d be favored against, which puts them above average for that conference.
In the Coastal, UNC and Miami are the most likely division winners, and might be considered the number 2 and 3 teams in the ACC, but they’d just be in the mix in the B1G or SEC. I think he’s commenting both on how severe the drop off is after Clemson and also the ACC lower tier against the SEC lower tier. Outside of Clemson, the ACC hasn’t been holding up the level of play that we’d expect out of a “P5” conference. The P12 and Big12 have had the same quality issues.
Football conferences are more “the power 2” than the power 5. The next two conferences are a step weaker.

Regarding alignment, there’s B1G + P12 merger talk, but the ACC makes more geographic sense for the B1G. We’d have several playoff team contenders as well. Louisville is the main non-AAU university I can think of.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

but there are enough elite recruits that do want what GT offers and are willing to do the work.

I hope you are correct. My opinion is there will never be enough to be able to compete for an NC a few times a decade. I have known a few kids that had what it took (grades, SAT scores) but did not want to do the work. One went on to be a starting OL for UGA, his brother went to Tech and got an engineering degree. Its a numbers game We also struggle to keep them. slack off a bit here and you are hosed. We have had trouble keeping them available as well.

I remember those conversations as well and the school is never going to cooperate. That is why I always felt we needed some kind of schematic advantage on O and/or D to help the odds. I dont care what it is, just something that makes Tech harder to prepare for.

 

[stech81]

Texas and OU will expand that gap until the ACC does something to change it. Don't expect the SEC to help us.

I do agree the SEC is a step or 2 above us , I understand Oklahoma making the SEC a little better. But I DO NOT see Texas doing anything for the SEC but causing big problems and dividing the conference and I'm not talking about East Vs West. Texas is used to people kissing their feet and giving them what they want, If you go bad and look at wins and loses since 2010 Texas is 78-60 ok but West Virginia is 81-56 . If any thing mark it down Texas will hurt the SEC