Expansion Talk 2021

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I hope you are correct. My opinion is there will never be enough to be able to compete for an NC a few times a decade. I have known a few kids that had what it took (grades, SAT scores) but did not want to do the work. One went on to be a starting OL for UGA, his brother went to Tech and got an engineering degree. Its a numbers game We also struggle to keep them. slack off a bit here and you are hosed. We have had trouble keeping them available as well.

I remember those conversations as well and the school is never going to cooperate. That is why I always felt we needed some kind of schematic advantage on O and/or D to help the odds. I dont care what it is, just something that makes Tech harder to prepare for.
Exactly.....but there are those that still believe we are going to have a roster compared to Alabama is a few years
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Ole Miss, MSU, Missouri, Tennessee, Arkansas, and Kentucky. So half the conference. Not sure if that was a serious question or not.

Edit- I forgot South Carolina, so more than half the conference.

You listed 7 teams. That's half the conference. I am not sure a few of those teams couldn't beat Miami, and a couple could probably give UNC a run
 

bobongo

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Remember when we use to rack our brain about the majors GT could offer in order attract more elite SAs? We literally spent and entire decade looking at GT's course offerings coming up with majors to GT could offer SAs to compare to "factory schools". The thing is, CGC is showing us we don't even need to do that. GT is just fine with who we are. GT is not for everyone, but there are enough elite recruits that do want what GT offers and are willing to do the work. I've said it for years, and now there's a coach that is showing us that it's true.

This year, CGC is starting to bring in the 4 star guys at positions we thought would be recruiting unicorns for GT: 4 star OL and DLs. We have 2 four star DTs committed, 1 four star OL (another on the cusp of being a 4 star). The current class is actually threatening to rival our legendary 2007 class with the amount of 4 star recruits in one class.

We're getting these recruits and CGC hasn't even shown he can win yet. We start winning, and that recruiting ceiling goes even higher.
Collins has made a believer out of me. I didn't think we could recruit in-state as well as he's already shown we can. And if when we start winning, recruiting should get even better.
 

4shotB

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I remember those conversations as well and the school is never going to cooperate. That is why I always felt we needed some kind of schematic advantage on O and/or D to help the odds. I dont care what it is, just something that makes Tech harder to prepare for.

My question is this....how exactly do you go about recruiting coaches who give you demonstrated schematic advantages with budget constraints. Yes, we got lucky with Coach Friedgen who thankfully had ties with Ross and somewhat lucky with CPJ and Tenuta although each of these men had their Achilles heel. But the coach who has demonstrated that he has built a better mousetrap in terms of X's and O's is like the highly rated 4 or 5* DT....everyone knows who they are. Otherwise you are doing what we seem to be doing....recruiting young, unproven coaches and letting them grow into their jobs.
 

Root4GT

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A&M is in prove it year. Can they take the West?
Not a prove it year for A&M. Losing a 4 year starter at QB puts you a step back except for Alabama. Fischer has A&M on very solid ground now where they will be in the hunt for the SEC West title with LSU & Bama every year.

it’s never a now or never against Bama with Saban. It’s we actually have a chance or not. Their new QB play will determine how far they go. They have recruited top ten talent for several years. Jumbo is a very proven coach.
 

yeti92

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You listed 7 teams. That's half the conference. I am not sure a few of those teams couldn't beat Miami, and a couple could probably give UNC a run
Vanderbilt was already listed by the OP, and the question was not who could beat them or give them a run for their money - we all know anyone can beat anyone else on any give Saturday. The question was who would be an underdog, and all of the teams listed would be favored to lose if the game was to be played tomorrow.
 

LongforDodd

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...but there are enough elite recruits that do want what GT offers and are willing to do the work.
But how many semesters of GT course work have these elite recruits completed for us to be able to say with confidence that we've gotten over the academic recruiting hurdle? Rhetorical question.
 

WreckinGT

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I believe the SEC is definitely a step above the ACC right now. That's why we are constantly pushing to be more competitive. When we routed Miss State in 2014 we were just one of several ACC teams to beat SEC teas in bowl games. But that world has changed a lot since then. Other than Vandy, which SEC team would be an underdog against Miami or UNC if the game was played this Fall?

Texas and OU will expand that gap until the ACC does something to change it. Don't expect the SEC to help us. Adding ND would help, but the real change needs to be in the middle of the ACC. We and the other middle of the pact teams need to be better than Tennessee and Kentucky and Miss State.
UNC would likely be a favorite over every SEC team other than UGA/Bama/A&M.
 
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My question is this....how exactly do you go about recruiting coaches who give you demonstrated schematic advantages with budget constraints. Yes, we got lucky with Coach Friedgen who thankfully had ties with Ross and somewhat lucky with CPJ and Tenuta although each of these men had their Achilles heel. But the coach who has demonstrated that he has built a better mousetrap in terms of X's and O's is like the highly rated 4 or 5* DT....everyone knows who they are. Otherwise you are doing what we seem to be doing....recruiting young, unproven coaches and letting them grow into their jobs.
It is not about finding a coach that has a schematic. It is about having a coach that looks at his players and is willing to change the system to match the capability. Example, Sims is a dual threat QB. He could run option and utilize play action better than being a drop back QB. You tune your offense to this type of system. Another example, if you think that your defense is not strong enough to stop people, you change your offense to slow the game down and keep possession of the ball.

Are their some coaches that know how to run better schemes and make in game adjustments, sure. They are out there at all levels so finding one or two is possible.
 

MountainBuzzMan

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It is not about finding a coach that has a schematic. It is about having a coach that looks at his players and is willing to change the system to match the capability. Example, Sims is a dual threat QB. He could run option and utilize play action better than being a drop back QB. You tune your offense to this type of system. Another example, if you think that your defense is not strong enough to stop people, you change your offense to slow the game down and keep possession of the ball.

Are their some coaches that know how to run better schemes and make in game adjustments, sure. They are out there at all levels so finding one or two is possible.

Those dont necessarily have to be head coaches either. I really think Collins should have kept our previous DC. We need a Friedgen style OC. Then step back a bit and he is following the Clemson style
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Vanderbilt was already listed by the OP, and the question was not who could beat them or give them a run for their money - we all know anyone can beat anyone else on any give Saturday. The question was who would be an underdog, and all of the teams listed would be favored to lose if the game was to be played tomorrow.

Betting Miami would be a dog against two or more of those teams.
 

GoJacketsInRaleigh

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It is not about finding a coach that has a schematic. It is about having a coach that looks at his players and is willing to change the system to match the capability. Example, Sims is a dual threat QB. He could run option and utilize play action better than being a drop back QB. You tune your offense to this type of system. Another example, if you think that your defense is not strong enough to stop people, you change your offense to slow the game down and keep possession of the ball.

Are their some coaches that know how to run better schemes and make in game adjustments, sure. They are out there at all levels so finding one or two is possible.
Sims does run the option. It's called the zone read. You want a 6'5'' QB running the Paul Johnson option?

Collins is putting in his offense so players can learn it. If he runs the same boring scheme to make you happy, then he can't recruit players he wants to recruit to come play in it. It's called program building. Not putting a band-aid on a giant wound.
 

4shotB

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It is not about finding a coach that has a schematic. It is about having a coach that looks at his players and is willing to change the system to match the capability. Example, Sims is a dual threat QB. He could run option and utilize play action better than being a drop back QB. You tune your offense to this type of system. Another example, if you think that your defense is not strong enough to stop people, you change your offense to slow the game down and keep possession of the ball.

Are their some coaches that know how to run better schemes and make in game adjustments, sure. They are out there at all levels so finding one or two is possible.
Fair enough points but my question is aimed at those who insist (or more properly infer) we go get the X's and O's savant who can take any group of 2 and 3 star recruits and draw up a game plan that puts them on par with the Clemsons and Oklahomas.

To your last point, how exactly do you find them with certainty? Let's take CPJ - a well respected football guy and that is not open for debate. He was unable (given the constraints he had to deal with) to interview and hire a succesful DC. Given his expertise, why does everyone think that going out and getting a new coach is a surefire ticket to success???? I am sincerely baffled by this logic. Maybe that is true at Bama or Ohio State or Texas where you have the resources to pick the cream of the crop who have proven their chops at other P5 schools but what about the other 100+ schools. Heck, even Texas, the wealthiest school of them all, has demonstrated that hiring a coach isn't a guaranteed process.
 
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Sims does run the option. It's called the zone read. You want a 6'5'' QB running the Paul Johnson option?

Collins is putting in his offense so players can learn it. If he runs the same boring scheme to make you happy, then he can't recruit players he wants to recruit to come play in it. It's called program building. Not putting a band-aid on a giant wound.
And this is why Collins will have trouble. Saban, great example, changes his offense last year because of what his players could do.
And I did not imply running a CPJ option and no we run very little zone read. Sims in a press interview even said that the coaches told him to stop running the ball so much. He is not a pro style drop back QB.
 
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2,034
Fair enough points but my question is aimed at those who insist (or more properly infer) we go get the X's and O's savant who can take any group of 2 and 3 star recruits and draw up a game plan that puts them on par with the Clemsons and Oklahomas.

To your last point, how exactly do you find them with certainty? Let's take CPJ - a well respected football guy and that is not open for debate. He was unable (given the constraints he had to deal with) to interview and hire a succesful DC. Given his expertise, why does everyone think that going out and getting a new coach is a surefire ticket to success???? I am sincerely baffled by this logic. Maybe that is true at Bama or Ohio State or Texas where you have the resources to pick the cream of the crop who have proven their chops at other P5 schools but what about the other 100+ schools. Heck, even Texas, the wealthiest school of them all, has demonstrated that hiring a coach isn't a guaranteed process.
Well, we have many struggles with defense over the years. Tenutta was a great example utilizing our talent or lack of as was O'leary. As has been stated it is our academic limitations that have the biggest impact on D front 7. And no, you can't find them with certainty, but a good head coach can find a good coordinator by looking at things like preparation, learning, etc.
 

bobongo

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Fair enough points but my question is aimed at those who insist (or more properly infer) we go get the X's and O's savant who can take any group of 2 and 3 star recruits and draw up a game plan that puts them on par with the Clemsons and Oklahomas.
Not 2 and 3 stars, but 3's and 4's - possible.
 

Technut1990

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Ole Miss, MSU, Missouri, Tennessee, Arkansas, and Kentucky. So half the conference. Not sure if that was a serious question or not.

Edit- I forgot South Carolina, so more than half the conference.

the real question is IF Miami, or any other ACC team were in the SEC where would they finish in the standings ?

as it is now, Clemson finishes 3rd or 4th ( playing an all SEC schedule ), North Carolina would be 5th to 7th and the rest would fall in line. The battle for last would be between Vandy, Arkansas ( right now ), Wake and Duke I dont really know what Ole Miss and Miss St have this year in the way of returning players. Tech, South Carolina and Tenn will be better than they have been of late And Kentucky is a .500 team playing the ACC.
 
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