Everybody wants to hold the baby. Nobody wants to go through labor.

tmhunter52

Helluva Engineer
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2,467
ilovetheoption said:
Guys.

This is it.

Right now.

This moment right now, where you're not a good team, and you just got slaughtered by ND, and you're aware that if UGA wanted this the score to be 100-0, and it's only by virtue of their class as a program and their mercy that it won't be, this is the moment, where you're either going to run the experiment, or you're not.

It's not guaranteed to work. That's the thing about experiments. Sometimes they fail, but they ALWAYS fail if you give up halfway through them.

4 years ago, you guys made a choice to run this experiment. The experiment is "we're f'n sick and tired of topping out as a program because we have x's and o's, and they have jimmies and joes, so let's try to do it the other way".

You then made decisions based off that choice. "Who is the best possible recruiter that we think we can get, and who will stick with GT". You said to yourself "we're going all in on jimmies and joes, because we really, really, really believe that if you've got the best guys, it overcomes tactics"

And, "the best guys" doesn't mean "the best guys as freshmen and sophomores". It means "the best guys as seniors, with the best guys as juniors, and the best guys as sophoremores, and the best guys as freshmen".

Getting the best guys means telling them what they want to hear, and what they want to hear is "we're going to prepare you for the NFL, and we're going to make you rich because of it", and that means running stuff that translates to the nfl.

THAT means running the same stuff as everybody else, and when you run the same stuff as everybody else AND they've got 2 years of recruiting and S/C on you, they kick your asses 55-0.

Is there a world where you have both? Meh, IDK, but you believed that collins was the best guy to get you the best jimmies and joes, and would stick at GT, and frankly, that wasn't a bad guess.

Could you guess maybe Charles Huff? Maybe. Could you guess maybe Mike Locksley? Maybe. Could you guess maybe Dre Bly? Maybe. Collins was probably a better pick for GT at the time, knowing what we knew then. He was in that elite cadre of recruiters, reputation wise, and he WANTS to be at GT.

For the experiment you're trying to run, Collins was the best pick.

So, we get to now.

If you're going to run this experiment to its conclusion, THIS is when you just shut up, and grind your teeth, deal with the massive L's.

The point of an experiment is to get datapoints, and you'll never get the data you want if you bail now. The data is "Can GT REALLY recruit their way to wins? Like, you've talked about it forever, and some people think yes, and some people think now, but right now you're halfway through an experiment. If you finish the experiment (because you'll probably lose next year, too), you can make decisions.

If, after 2023, you're still losing, then you know: We cannot do this. Our fundamentals do not allow it. Lets go get Jeff Monken, or Jamie Chadwell, or some Leach disciple, and try to do it on scheme.

If, on the other hand, after 2023, suddenly you're lining up and kicking UVa's *** at the point of attack, and giving UGA a game, and all we need to do is keep it up, and maybe tweak here or there, then you know that, too.

But if you quit now, and you never REALLY try to win on talent, with an entire roster stocked top to bottom, and fully developed with the best recruiter you're ever likely to get, then you'll never know, and that'll lead you to bad decisions (or at least decisions made on incomplete info).

I can't stand Geoff Collins. I think he's a clown, I think he's a D-bag, and I'd NEVER hire that guy to coach for me. Also, I think GT CAN'T do it. I think your academic and social environment, as well as your disinterested alumni base (and they'll ALWAYS be disinterested vis a vis uga) preclude you from winning like UGA does. THAT SAID, you've sunk 3 years into this experiment, and it's a good, valid experiment. You really want to get the data from this, so shut up, see it through, take the huge loss to UGA. Take a ****-ton of losses next year, and then the year after, get your data and move on from there.

You guys are numbers guys. Get your numbers.

Right now. This moment. Stop thinking with your hearts, and your "jesus, I'm going to have to hear about this from my UGA inlaws for 20 years when they beat us by 70" and start thinking with your "I'm dealing with unpleasantness that will allow me to make optimal football-related decisions for 2 generations".

Signed,

The least likely guy on this board to write this post (and also somebody with no skin in the game)
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Fatmike91 said:
Great analogy:

The beaker broke and the experiment exploded all over the lab. The experiment is over. It's time to turn off the bunsen burner...and maybe even find the emergency eye wash...

/
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And fire extinguisher…
 
Northeast Stinger

Northeast Stinger

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11,174
LawTalkin Jacket said:
good points and I think about how I felt about CPastner in year 3 and it was not good. IF CGCollins can keep the players on board, and keep the recruits coming, then time is on his side, but if recruits are turned off by the records and no bowls, and if Gibbs decides to transfer to Tennessee (I heard from a UT fan that he saw this on a UT board), that would be the end of the experiment. Pastner had a 5 year plan and patience paid off. If we keep the recruits and the talent we have, maybe we win some games next year and Collins = Paster. keep in mind, had we beaten NIU, BC and VaTEch or Clemson or UVA and had 5 wins, we would feel very different, even with drubbings by ND and uga
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My problem with this comparison is that I never thought we should even consider getting rid of Pastner. From my perspective any fool could see that the guy can flat coach. I have yet to see any evidence that Collins knows how to coach. That’s a huge difference maker for me.
 
Northeast Stinger

Northeast Stinger

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11,174
So, I like this thread and I am glad it was started. The reminder that this was an experiment to see if we could recruit our way to excellence is on point. Well conceived argument.

Those who are nervous about seeing the experiment through are balancing several concerns:

1) If you are doing a clinical trial, and the experimental drug keeps killing patients, at some point do you say, “I’ve got enough data”?
2) Related to the first concern is the question of whether this is even a valid experiment if the coach doesn’t know how to coach. Coaching, in the grand scheme of things, is more important than recruiting.
3) Finally, young people today like quick results. They change jobs, change locations, and change allegiances at the drop of a hat if it doesn’t pay off. Very few players above 3 stars want to spend four years losing.

So can we afford this experiment?
 

SOWEGA Jacket

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forensicbuzz said:
Well, I guess you're entitled to your opinion. We'll see how many of our starters/highly recruited kids decide to transfer out. We'll see how our recruiting is affected. Until then, it's just your outside-looking-in opinion. Go look at what the parents that are just coming aboard are saying in the recruiting forum. Pretty much the opposite of what you're saying.
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I agree it’s just my opinion. This entire or any message board is just opinion. I don’t care anything about words. I bought into Collins words for 2 years. As a 51 year old that was a wake up call for me as to my gullibility. Live and learn. As for what anyone is saying, ok fine. Let’s wait to see if their words are legit or just time biding. Hopefully no one leaves nor decommits. But to believe it won’t happen is pretty naive. We’ve lost players every year. Why would this year be any different?
 
forensicbuzz

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
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SOWEGA Jacket said:
I agree it’s just my opinion. This entire or any message board is just opinion. I don’t care anything about words. I bought into Collins words for 2 years. As a 51 year old that was a wake up call for me as to my gullibility. Live and learn. As for what anyone is saying, ok fine. Let’s wait to see if their words are legit or just time biding. Hopefully no one leaves nor decommits. But to believe it won’t happen is pretty naive. We’ve lost players every year. Why would this year be any different?
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LOL! Of course, there will be kids that leave; that happens every year. Of course, there will be kids that de-commit; that happens every year. But to say it's going to be worse when there is ABSOLUTELY no indication that it's going to be worse right now is just poormouthing your team. We'll see if it happens, and it may. But until it does, making definitive statements about it happening like it's a given is antagonistic and inflammatory. For such a self-proclaimed GT fan, you've been pissing on your team all season.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

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2,113
forensicbuzz said:
LOL! Of course, there will be kids that leave; that happens every year. Of course, there will be kids that de-commit; that happens every year. But to say it's going to be worse when there is ABSOLUTELY no indication that it's going to be worse right now is just poormouthing your team. We'll see if it happens, and it may. But until it does, making definitive statements about it happening like it's a given is antagonistic and inflammatory. For such a self-proclaimed GT fan, you've been pissing on your team all season.
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I haven‘t been pissing on my team. That would be Collins. In 2 years from today I’ll still be a GT fan. He’ll be trashing us as an adviser at Florida or Arkansas or somewhere. And where do you get this “self proclaimed fan” stuff. That’s just weird. I don’t even know what a “self proclaimed fan” is. You can call call me names all you want. You can keep believing everything is fine. I wish I could live in denial like you. I’ll be here when you post how shocked you are in the off season. Here’s a hint, players don’t like to be part of a losing team for 3, let alone 4 straight seasons.
 

Tech93

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This initial post sounds good, but I disagree. If a coach can’t coach, then you can’t teach him to coach. If he has no discipline, then he’ll attract talented 4 stars who have no discipline. The longer we go the more Tech becomes known as a terrible football program. This will resonate with younger athletes that are Freshman and Sophomores who will be playing college ball in 2 to 3 years. We can try another year but I don’t see things changing. Collins lacks what is needed as a head coach. As a cool guy for the players to hang out with, then maybe he checks the box but that won’t get wins for us.
 
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Techster

Techster

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Northeast Stinger said:
Wasn’t there one more top QB recruit when Lewis was coaching?
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Donnie Davis. Considered the top dual threat QB recruit in the nation at the time, and the #2 overall QB behind Eric Zeier (who went to UGA). He would have been unreal under Friedgen's coaching, unfortunately he got caught up in Bill Lewis's mindgames and power trips. Davis was before his time, but he had the perfect coach for him in Friedgen whose offense included read option plays and took advantage of dual threat QBs before read option spread offenses became popular.

What could have been...
 

gtphd

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Messages
333
RamblinRed said:
I don't disagree with a single thing you wrote. This is the path GT chose to take, have to see it to conclusion.
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And that conclusion will be a 3-digit loss to uga, in Atlanta, in a stadium covered in red.

Then we should be done and move on.
 
forensicbuzz

forensicbuzz

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SOWEGA Jacket said:
I haven‘t been pissing on my team. That would be Collins. In 2 years from today I’ll still be a GT fan. He’ll be trashing us as an adviser at Florida or Arkansas or somewhere. And where do you get this “self proclaimed fan” stuff. That’s just weird. I don’t even know what a “self proclaimed fan” is. You can call call me names all you want. You can keep believing everything is fine. I wish I could live in denial like you. I’ll be here when you post how shocked you are in the off season. Here’s a hint, players don’t like to be part of a losing team for 3, let alone 4 straight seasons.
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Self-proclaimed: means you yourself are stating that you are something. I guess I could have used "self-professed". Nothing weird about it. It's not positive, it's not negative. It just is. You say you're a huge GT fan. That's a self-proclaimed fan. You could have googled it yourself if you really wanted to know. Then you wouldn't have to say you didn't even know what it was.

To the rest, you've been trashing our team all season. Then you turn around and say you wish it weren't true because you're a huge GT fan. I don't doubt you're a huge GT fan; I just think you're a lousy huge GT fan. That's my opinion based on your posting throughout the season.

I'm not living in denial. I see positive things on the field and I see negative things on the field. I see progress and I see lack of progress. I think there will be changes in the off-season, but it's not the off-season, so I'm going to hold my opinion about changes (for the most part) until after the season (which will be a week from yesterday). You've seen fit to poormouth our team all season and I just think that's lousy. I don't always disagree with you, just your timing.
 
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