Everybody wants to hold the baby. Nobody wants to go through labor.

SOWEGA Jacket

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1,067
Self-proclaimed: means you yourself are stating that you are something. I guess I could have used "self-professed". Nothing weird about it. It's not positive, it's not negative. It just is. You say you're a huge GT fan. That's a self-proclaimed fan. You could have googled it yourself if you really wanted to know. Then you wouldn't have to say you didn't even know what it was.

To the rest, you've been trashing our team all season. Then you turn around and say you wish it weren't true because you're a huge GT fan. I don't doubt you're a huge GT fan; I just think you're a lousy huge GT fan. That's my opinion based on your posting throughout the season.

I'm not living in denial. I see positive things on the field and I see negative things on the field. I see progress and I see lack of progress. I think there will be changes in the off-season, but it's not the off-season, so I'm going to hold my opinion about changes (for the most part) until after the season (which will be a week from yesterday). You've seen fit to poormouth our team all season and I just think that's lousy. I don't always disagree with you, just your timing.
I hear you and kind of agree with your take on me. I don’t hide from it. I think you are wrong saying I’m a lousy fan but you can have that opinion. I was Mr. Sunshine for the first 2 years because I like his branding and marketing. You can read my sunshine pumping posts if you search them. I was numb when Johnson retired and Collins brought me back to life with his rhetoric. Heck, I defended him after Citadel, after Temple, after UCF, after Syracuse, after beat down after beat down.

Then year 2 came and Sims against FSU gave me the best night of sleep in a long time. We all felt it. Then Gibbs played his first game in week 2 and even though we lost we all felt pretty good because Gibbs is eye popping. But, since it has been all down hill. I could no longer defend certain DB’s getting lit up week after week. I could no longer defend the I’ll-timed time outs because our sideline looks like they’ve never met each other let alone sat in meetings together.

And then Collins spends his summer telling us how great everyone looks, how these transfers along the OLine are gonna make us a top tier ACC unit. How these transfer DLinemen are gonna bring the heat, etc, etc. Then we all show up to Bobby Dodd on opening day of year 3. And it was the Citadel all over again. As my family got up to leave, I couldn’t even move. I didn’t want to believe what I just watched for 3.5 hours. I was stunned. The 4 hour drive home was depressing. And other than 1 game where we looked like a team (UNC) we have been a joke all season. We have become a laughingstock in the heart of college football country. Our own local media doesn’t even talk about us. Right now, we don’t exist. We were just a punching bag on national TV for 4 hours and will probably get to do it again in 4 days.

I have always said I don’t mind losing. To be a GT fan is to be able to handle losing. But right now and the last 3 years we aren’t losing. We are becoming irrelevant. All Collins had to do this year was show us ANY positivity. Just a hint. We‘ve seen the exact opposite which was last Saturday. No coaching, no heart, no grit, no purpose.

As to your thought process about being a ”self professed” fan, I still don’t get it. I’ve not professed to being a GT fan or a Braves fan. I just am one. Never one time have I just walked around self professing I’m a GT fan. Usually my hat or shirt indicates that. Or the flag at my house, or the stickers on my cars, or my butt spending a 16 hour Saturday driving up and back, or mine and my wife’s GT degrees. I guess you were taking a shot at me. Heck, I’ve posted in the past that sometimes I wish there was a way to undo fandom. But, in my case and probably yours and everyone else who posts here there is no way to turn it off. We will be GT fans until we die.
 

MWBATL

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,072
aren't you a UVA fan? and you're gonna come here after that massive beat down, in the middle of a fanbase meltdown, and lecture us what you think is best for our program?

spare me.
Hey, dude...uncalled for. @ilovetheoption is a good dude who has been around a long time and supports GT second to UVa. Spare us your judgment. His post has validity.You may disagree with it,but no need to take shots at the poster.
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,130
Donnie Davis. Considered the top dual threat QB recruit in the nation at the time, and the #2 overall QB behind Eric Zeier (who went to UGA). He would have been unreal under Friedgen's coaching, unfortunately he got caught up in Bill Lewis's mindgames and power trips. Davis was before his time, but he had the perfect coach for him in Friedgen whose offense included read option plays and took advantage of dual threat QBs before read option spread offenses became popular.

What could have been...
I know some of his family. Great people. If you only knew what went on then. Ross was the reason he came to GT.
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
Messages
9,435
Location
Marietta, GA
Anyone realistically thinking a change at the top should occur is speaking purely from emotion and doesn't understand the reality of the existing contract and related Athletic budget considerations. It would be completely crazy and impractical to fire CGC after this season - it absolutely won't happen.

Plus, we should give him at least one more year anyway to see how the record looks with his Sophomores and Juniors playing (remember he's only had two of his own recruiting classes so his kids are all Freshman and Sophomores this year). I'm not counting the one-year temporary upper classman portal guys as they are temp gap-fillers - can't build a program with temp gap-fillers. Pastner's mantra of "get old and stay old" also applies here...

A more practical approach has been suggested by many on this board. Gotta make one or more D staff changes as the defensive players have mostly regressed this season from a player development perspective in addition to showing no ability to play as a team. Give our O staff another year to see if they can improve the Oline depth and overall performance. Oline was the clear weakness this season - exacerbated by injuries.

The path seems clear. Gotta keep CGC at least one more year. Replace one or more of our D staff and keep our O staff on a short leash for next year.
+1
 

forensicbuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,207
Location
North Shore, Chicago
I hear you and kind of agree with your take on me. I don’t hide from it. I think you are wrong saying I’m a lousy fan but you can have that opinion. I was Mr. Sunshine for the first 2 years because I like his branding and marketing. You can read my sunshine pumping posts if you search them. I was numb when Johnson retired and Collins brought me back to life with his rhetoric. Heck, I defended him after Citadel, after Temple, after UCF, after Syracuse, after beat down after beat down.

Then year 2 came and Sims against FSU gave me the best night of sleep in a long time. We all felt it. Then Gibbs played his first game in week 2 and even though we lost we all felt pretty good because Gibbs is eye popping. But, since it has been all down hill. I could no longer defend certain DB’s getting lit up week after week. I could no longer defend the I’ll-timed time outs because our sideline looks like they’ve never met each other let alone sat in meetings together.

And then Collins spends his summer telling us how great everyone looks, how these transfers along the OLine are gonna make us a top tier ACC unit. How these transfer DLinemen are gonna bring the heat, etc, etc. Then we all show up to Bobby Dodd on opening day of year 3. And it was the Citadel all over again. As my family got up to leave, I couldn’t even move. I didn’t want to believe what I just watched for 3.5 hours. I was stunned. The 4 hour drive home was depressing. And other than 1 game where we looked like a team (UNC) we have been a joke all season. We have become a laughingstock in the heart of college football country. Our own local media doesn’t even talk about us. Right now, we don’t exist. We were just a punching bag on national TV for 4 hours and will probably get to do it again in 4 days.

I have always said I don’t mind losing. To be a GT fan is to be able to handle losing. But right now and the last 3 years we aren’t losing. We are becoming irrelevant. All Collins had to do this year was show us ANY positivity. Just a hint. We‘ve seen the exact opposite which was last Saturday. No coaching, no heart, no grit, no purpose.

As to your thought process about being a ”self professed” fan, I still don’t get it. I’ve not professed to being a GT fan or a Braves fan. I just am one. Never one time have I just walked around self professing I’m a GT fan. Usually my hat or shirt indicates that. Or the flag at my house, or the stickers on my cars, or my butt spending a 16 hour Saturday driving up and back, or mine and my wife’s GT degrees. I guess you were taking a shot at me. Heck, I’ve posted in the past that sometimes I wish there was a way to undo fandom. But, in my case and probably yours and everyone else who posts here there is no way to turn it off. We will be GT fans until we die.
I am not taking a shot at you. Maybe at some others, but I have always understood what you've said; I've just disagreed.

I think you're reading into the "self-proclaimed/self-professed" comment. It was only meant to say that you admit/claim/profess to be a GT fan. If you profess to be a GT fan, you're a self-professed fan.

I have taken umbrage with some of your comments that tout the quality of the SEC (not the marketing, but the actual quality) over other conferences, but that's because I think you're 100% wrong. But that's a different thread.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,950
Anyone realistically thinking a change at the top should occur is speaking purely from emotion and doesn't understand the reality of the existing contract and related Athletic budget considerations. It would be completely crazy and impractical to fire CGC after this season - it absolutely won't happen.

Plus, we should give him at least one more year anyway to see how the record looks with his Sophomores and Juniors playing (remember he's only had two of his own recruiting classes so his kids are all Freshman and Sophomores this year). I'm not counting the one-year temporary upper classman portal guys as they are temp gap-fillers - can't build a program with temp gap-fillers. Pastner's mantra of "get old and stay old" also applies here...

A more practical approach has been suggested by many on this board. Gotta make one or more D staff changes as the defensive players have mostly regressed this season from a player development perspective in addition to showing no ability to play as a team. Give our O staff another year to see if they can improve the Oline depth and overall performance. Oline was the clear weakness this season - exacerbated by injuries.

The path seems clear. Gotta keep CGC at least one more year. Replace one or more of our D staff and keep our O staff on a short leash for next year.
If we need to give Collins one or two more years to let his recruits grow old before we can judge him then im not sure why it is practical to fire his assistants. They are coaching the same guys.
 

ilovetheoption

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Messages
2,709
If we need to give Collins one or two more years to let his recruits grow old before we can judge him then im not sure why it is practical to fire his assistants. They are coaching the same guys.
I actually don't disagree with this, but if it lowers the temperature, and doesn't hurt recruiting, it might be worth it. They'll hire somebody else to run standard CFB offense and defense.

The theory I'm professing is that exotic schemes and top notch recruiting are largely mutually exclusive, because what you're selling is "we're going to run the same stuff the nfl guys run"
 

GoldZ

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
560
Yeah, nobody wants to go through birthing pains, but when labor goes past a certain point, you have to go C-section for the sake of the mother and the child. Maybe a C-section at this point equates to replacing the DC, or maybe it means the HC, but that means the whole staff or most of it. I believe the doctor overlooking the birth, believes we are one season from calling for the C-section. This ***umes we don't lose Willis and 2-3 others from the upcoming class and/or have a significant number of portal exits, which would mean of course CGC has lost the team and immediate surgery is required to save Mom and baby.

As to randerto's post above, he's got imo the wrong "top" in mind. If we don't manage to get the real top of the Institute on board, we won't have the money or the deep commitment required to succeed in today's modern $$$ version of CFB (which sux). Just imagine that place a little to the northeast of GT having gone through say 2 in a row 7 win seasons,and their Prez hung in there with the HC he brought on board. Can you say: clean out your desk bud.
 

ilovetheoption

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Messages
2,709
Yeah, nobody wants to go through birthing pains, but when labor goes past a certain point, you have to go C-section for the sake of the mother and the child. Maybe a C-section at this point equates to replacing the DC, or maybe it means the HC, but that means the whole staff or most of it. I believe the doctor overlooking the birth, believes we are one season from calling for the C-section. This ***umes we don't lose Willis and 2-3 others from the upcoming class and/or have a significant number of portal exits, which would mean of course CGC has lost the team and immediate surgery is required to save Mom and baby.

As to randerto's post above, he's got imo the wrong "top" in mind. If we don't manage to get the real top of the Institute on board, we won't have the money or the deep commitment required to succeed in today's modern $$$ version of CFB (which sux). Just imagine that place a little to the northeast of GT having gone through say 2 in a row 7 win seasons,and their Prez hung in there with the HC he brought on board. Can you say: clean out your desk bud.
Well,

If you start losing recruits, then to me THAT'S the evidence that the experiment has failed. If top notch guys stop coming, or don't make it until they're upper classmen, it means you're not ever reaching homeostasis of "a cadre of fully developed, highly recruited players, backed up by slightly less developed, but equally highly recruited players".

So, to my mind, THAT is when you go "uh oh", but since I have not seen that, I'm not necessarily there, yet.
 

forensicbuzz

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Well,

If you start losing recruits, then to me THAT'S the evidence that the experiment has failed. If top notch guys stop coming, or don't make it until they're upper classmen, it means you're not ever reaching homeostasis of "a cadre of fully developed, highly recruited players, backed up by slightly less developed, but equally highly recruited players".

So, to my mind, THAT is when you go "uh oh", but since I have not seen that, I'm not necessarily there, yet.
This 100%. It may happen this off-season; it may not. But right now, it's not happening.

Going back to a post I made a couple of weeks ago: People will believe a lie is true if 1) they want to believe it's true or 2) they're afraid it's true.

I think we have people from both camps on here. That is not to say it isn't true, but it certainly isn't true RIGHT NOW.
 

Northeast Stinger

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Messages
5,657
I have seen Dabo chew player’s *** out on the sideline before, Collins needs assistants that will do that, but on really big FU’s he needs to show who’s the boss and i’m not sure he has that in himself
Yes. On national TV. Grabbing a player by the collar and screaming into his face. Dabo’s jugular veins were popping out when he did it. The player went off and hid after that.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

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Messages
1,067
I am not taking a shot at you. Maybe at some others, but I have always understood what you've said; I've just disagreed.

I think you're reading into the "self-proclaimed/self-professed" comment. It was only meant to say that you admit/claim/profess to be a GT fan. If you profess to be a GT fan, you're a self-professed fan.

I have taken umbrage with some of your comments that tout the quality of the SEC (not the marketing, but the actual quality) over other conferences, but that's because I think you're 100% wrong. But that's a different thread.
I have no problem with anything you post or anyone else for that matter. I believe in a forum of like minded people who can come together and talk about something we all love. This is all a distraction from the real world and real world problems. GT getting smoked by ND and UGA sucks, but it pales to the relative about to have double bypass. Not to get off topic (as you said a different thread) but all I’ve ever said about the SEC is that they take the business of football seriously and have smoked all other conferences when it comes to TV and money. The only entity who was as smart and forward thinking as the SEC was Norte a dame insecuring the NBC deal. That allows them to hire better coaches and have better facilities. That is really indisputable. I hate them but I admire them because like their league office I also love college football. I really hope our new commish can get us up to speed. Just like I hope Collins or whoever leads us onto the field next September can get us up to speed.
 

WreckinGT

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Messages
1,950
Well,

If you start losing recruits, then to me THAT'S the evidence that the experiment has failed. If top notch guys stop coming, or don't make it until they're upper classmen, it means you're not ever reaching homeostasis of "a cadre of fully developed, highly recruited players, backed up by slightly less developed, but equally highly recruited players".

So, to my mind, THAT is when you go "uh oh", but since I have not seen that, I'm not necessarily there, yet.
Multiple 25-35 ranked classes gaining experience isn't going to overcome poor coaching. I might agree with you if we were pulling in top 10 classes and 5 star players but we aren't. Our talent is improved, not great. We won't be any good with this level of talent unless we have quality coaching, which it's pretty obvious we don't have. The longer we drag it along, the more impact on the fan base, donations, and attendance. The hopeful long game strategy doesn't come without risks.
 

ilovetheoption

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Multiple 25-35 ranked classes gaining experience isn't going to overcome poor coaching. I might agree with you if we were pulling in top 10 classes and 5 star players but we aren't. Our talent is improved, not great. We won't be any good with this level of talent unless we have quality coaching, which it's pretty obvious we don't have. The longer we drag it along, the more impact on the fan base, donations, and attendance. The hopeful long game strategy doesn't come without risks.

FWIW, I agree with you.

That said, Collins is the best recruiter you're likely to get. So, you're going to find out what your recruiting ceiling really is. He's well funded, he's got help he needs, and you're not likely to do better than he can do on the recruiting front.

is your ceiling 25? Is your ceiling 10? We shall see.
 

forensicbuzz

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FWIW, I agree with you.

That said, Collins is the best recruiter you're likely to get. So, you're going to find out what your recruiting ceiling really is. He's well funded, he's got help he needs, and you're not likely to do better than he can do on the recruiting front.

is your ceiling 25? Is your ceiling 10? We shall see.
A 6 or 7 win season this season (attainable in my mind) sure would have made recruiting easier. We'll just have to wait and see what the next 1, 3, 9, and 12 months bring us.
 

JacketOff

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1,731
FWIW, I agree with you.

That said, Collins is the best recruiter you're likely to get. So, you're going to find out what your recruiting ceiling really is. He's well funded, he's got help he needs, and you're not likely to do better than he can do on the recruiting front.

is your ceiling 25? Is your ceiling 10? We shall see.
Right now we aren’t seeing our recruiting ceiling though. CGC and Co. have hung around the top 25, but they’ve also only won 9 games in 3 years. If we were playing in a bowl game this year I believe our recruiting potential could be higher than where we’re at. It’s hard to sell recruits when there’s no substance on the field, and being able to pull in solid classes under those circumstances is still impressive. But if the current staff (or any future staff updates) can’t figure out how to put a winning team on the field, recruiting ceilings will be irrelevant.
 

Josh H

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
367
If we need to give Collins one or two more years to let his recruits grow old before we can judge him then im not sure why it is practical to fire his assistants. They are coaching the same guys.
You fire assistants because you don't have to pay them $12 million to go away. Outside of Key (who is second highest paid), no one is under contract next year. Neither coordinator is proven and neither have coached at the P5 level, so one way to help an unproven HC is to get proven coordinators.

Heck, with Mullen out at Florida I wonder if Collins will put in a call about bringing him as an OC. Not sure what we do at DC...
 

g0lftime

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Here's what I would do if I were negotiating as GC. I will replace my OC and DC if the newbies I bring in are signed for 2 year contracts and I get at least 2 more years regardless to give them time to make a difference. Two years is an eternity these days in college football.
 

dressedcheeseside

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13,805
For what it’s worth i think uva sucks also, and your coach is a d-bag weirdo

and we CAN win this way, we have in the past before CPJ, but we need competent coaching/player development to go along with the recruiting
Calling somebody else’s coach a D bag weirdo is a little bit of the kettle calling the pot black.
 
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