ESPN ACC preseason power rankings: Can anyone catch Clemson?

[deeeznutz]

Hey, I agree that our offense under-performed against both Duke and UVA, but let's be real.
Against uva, our Offense scored 28 of our 36 pts vs. UVA while UVA allowed 28 pts/non-GT ACC game.
Against uva, our Defense allowed 40 pts to a team that scored on average 17 pts/non-GT ACC game.

I appreciate that some of y'all want to pretend that this is mindless defense of CPJ, but I reckon that's only because you are framing it from your mindless attack on CPJ. I'm not satisfied with how our offense performed against either Duke or UVA, but GT's primary problem in these two games was defense based on the cold numbers, by a long shot.

Both Duke and UVA scored MORE THAN TWICE their average points versus an ACC opponent.

Just FYI but the offense honestly has some part to play in allowing the other team to score higher than their average when it’s giving the ball back to the other team so quickly. Fact is the loss to Duke was a failure on both sides of the ball for half the game. There’s really not much benefit to arguing about which side shat the bed worse when both laid a big pile of their own.
The UVA game I’ll give you was probably more of a defensive failure (although they did generate points of their own to offset some that they gave up). One thing I hope to see going forward is not letting up the pressure and going conservative when we get a lead. We seem to start hot, play it safe when we get a lead, and then have trouble turning it back up when the other team makes their push.

 

[slugboy]

Hey, I agree that our offense under-performed against both Duke and UVA, but let's be real.
Against uva, our Offense scored 28 of our 36 pts vs. UVA while UVA allowed 28 pts/non-GT ACC game.
Against uva, our Defense allowed 40 pts to a team that scored on average 17 pts/non-GT ACC game.

I appreciate that some of y'all want to pretend that this is mindless defense of CPJ, but I reckon that's only because you are framing it from your mindless attack on CPJ. I'm not satisfied with how our offense performed against either Duke or UVA, but GT's primary problem in these two games was defense based on the cold numbers, by a long shot.

Both Duke and UVA scored MORE THAN TWICE their average points versus an ACC opponent.

I’m not saying the defense was good, just that you’re giving credit to an offense that didn’t earn it last year. I understand throwing Duke on the Defense, but it was Offense and Special Teams that blew the UVA game.

UVA scored on a 92 yard kickoff return, and we had two interceptions—one to our 30 which led to a touchdown, and one on their side of the field where we held them to a punt. We also gave them two points when we recovered our own fumble in the end zone, which also gave them a free possession.

Our defense scored 7 on an interception, and forced a fumble deep in their territory, at their 14. We scored a touchdown from there.

Offense had drives of 5, 0, 1, 13, 1, 3, -3, and -7 yards. The -7 yard series was capped by a 36 yard punt that was returned “for no gain” to OUR 43. Held them to a field goal, there.

Yeah, the defense did give up 31. UVA starting field position for the first drive was the GT 34. Field goal. The second UVA score was a failed onside where they started at the GT 43. Field goal. The third score was a kickoff return for a touchdown. Then a 78 yard touchdown drive, and then a 30 yard touchdown drive. They won with a 64 yard drive. But, just two touchdowns on long drives in the entire game.

They had ridiculous starting field position.

The AP closing paragraph was “After Virginia went ahead in the closing minutes, the Yellow Jackets drove to the Cavaliers' 37, but on fourth down, Marshall was flushed from the pocket, scrambled toward his own sideline and threw a pass toward no one in particular that landed out of bounds, setting off a celebration at Scott Stadium.”

Special teams was awful in that game, and I can see blaming it on that unit, but offense was AWOL at best and self sabotaging at worst in that game.



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[AE 87]

Just FYI but the offense honestly has some part to play in allowing the other team to score higher than their average when it’s giving the ball back to the other team so quickly. Fact is the loss to Duke was a failure on both sides of the ball for half the game. There’s really not much benefit to arguing about which side shat the bed worse when both laid a big pile of their own.
The UVA game I’ll give you was probably more of a defensive failure (although they did generate points of their own to offset some that they gave up). One thing I hope to see going forward is not letting up the pressure and going conservative when we get a lead. We seem to start hot, play it safe when we get a lead, and then have trouble turning it back up when the other team makes their push.

I’m not saying the defense was good, just that you’re giving credit to an offense that didn’t earn it last year. I understand throwing Duke on the Defense, but it was Offense and Special Teams that blew the UVA game.

UVA scored on a 92 yard kickoff return, and we had two interceptions—one to our 30 which led to a touchdown, and one on their side of the field where we held them to a punt. We also gave them two points when we recovered our own fumble in the end zone, which also gave them a free possession.

Our defense scored 7 on an interception, and forced a fumble deep in their territory, at their 14. We scored a touchdown from there.

Offense had drives of 5, 0, 1, 13, 1, 3, -3, and -7 yards. The -7 yard series was capped by a 36 yard punt that was returned “for no gain” to OUR 43. Held them to a field goal, there.

Yeah, the defense did give up 31. UVA starting field position for the first drive was the GT 34. Field goal. The second UVA score was a failed onside where they started at the GT 43. Field goal. The third score was a kickoff return for a touchdown. Then a 78 yard touchdown drive, and then a 30 yard touchdown drive. They won with a 64 yard drive. But, just two touchdowns on long drives in the entire game.

They had ridiculous starting field position.

The AP closing paragraph was “After Virginia went ahead in the closing minutes, the Yellow Jackets drove to the Cavaliers' 37, but on fourth down, Marshall was flushed from the pocket, scrambled toward his own sideline and threw a pass toward no one in particular that landed out of bounds, setting off a celebration at Scott Stadium.”

Special teams was awful in that game, and I can see blaming it on that unit, but offense was AWOL at best and self sabotaging at worst in that game.



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So, just to be clear because yall keep bringing a defibrillator to the dead horse, I have in each post said that the O did not meet our reasonable expectation in either game.

I was responding to the suggestion that the O which scored about average for an ACC O in each game bore close to the responsibility of the D which gave up more than twice an average ACC D in each game.

@slugboy you may want to watch the games rather than just reading the paper.

Our O drove the field and scored a 2pt pat to go up by 3 with 3 1/2 min left. They scored a TD in 2min. So, that last drive you mentioned was GT needing a TD in a min and a half.

Your post reads like you expect any O to score a TD against a pwr5 D in a min. Wait ... do you think they might expect a pass? With that being said we did get within reach, and Marshall barely missed/overthrew Ricky in the endzone.

 

[Buzzmaster]

They outgained by 200 yards last year and gave us 7 with that stupid onside kick.

They also caught a bouncer off the helmet when it was 4th and 11 to get a lucky 1st down or the game is over. Not counting the sloppy field that slows down our offense. We had our chance to beat them and Tennessee.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

They also caught a bouncer off the helmet when it was 4th and 11 to get a lucky 1st down or the game is over. Not counting the sloppy field that slows down our offense. We had our chance to beat them and Tennessee.

The same sloppy field that slowed down their offense? We are the only rushing team in history that rain allegedly hinders. Am tired of that excuse.

 

[augustabuzz]

The same sloppy field that slowed down their offense? We are the only rushing team in history that rain allegedly hinders. Am tired of that excuse.

Rain favors the heavier team.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

The same sloppy field that slowed down their offense? We are the only rushing team in history that rain allegedly hinders. Am tired of that excuse.

I don't like that excuse either, but we often run horizontally before running vertically. This requires a quick 90 degree change of direction at some point, footing is critical. It's much easier for a defense to string out that play on a wet, sloppy, slow field. I'd also wager pitching a wet ball is a little more diceyer that throwing one. A dropped pitch is likely a turnover or worse, a dropped pass is just a loss of down.

I think the bigger issue for us that day was losing Benson. He was having a pretty good day before getting hurt. We just couldn't run up the middle with Quaide. We also lost Brant on defense in the middle of that game, too. One of the Austins went out for a significant period of time, too.

 

[gtwcf]

Or a certain coach didn't know how to force a change on the read for an RPO until 8 plays later....

 

[iceeater1969]

I don't like that excuse either, but we often run horizontally before running vertically. This requires a quick 90 degree change of direction at some point, footing is critical. It's much easier for a defense to string out that play on a wet, sloppy, slow field. I'd also wager pitching a wet ball is a little more diceyer that throwing one. A dropped pitch is likely a turnover or worse, a dropped pass is just a loss of down.

I think the bigger issue for us that day was losing Benson. He was having a pretty good day before getting hurt. We just couldn't run up the middle with Quaide. We also lost Brant on defense in the middle of that game, too. One of the Austins went out for a significant period of time, too.

The field was flooded 5 yds in from sidelines. Sure made the outside run game less effective.


Wet field arguments are not my favorite.
Wet, Cold, Hot are a whole lot about Grit = staying focused. I feel both teams played well in harsh conditions.


What sucked the life out of me, was end of game coaching decisions by our dc . At end of game he called defense scheme that let them hike, pivot throw 5-7 consecutive UNCHALLENGED sideline bubble screens This took almost no time with almost off clock. No shifting around to make them even have to think before they threw. Not one defense was called to say u must throw over middle was where our d l could tip it or a lb could read and come off coverage , a dl gets through for a sack.

That many passive plays at the end and then failure sucks the life out of a defense and the team. Kind of a what the heck - do u think we are that bad?

In 17 we did not finish strong uva! Duke! uga! imo embarrassing defense =can't fire the players = change.

Case for the dc
Does dc know our players do suck so much that our best plan is to let mia play open pitch and catch on the hope they miss field goal. Previous year 16 - gt just went in for score( iirc we went ahead). Miami was driving w easy dump passes against our bend and don't break (bait them down field with purposely open under coverage and no slant dl rush) defense. Well whoops the miami coach didn't follow the script! After about 3 plays they were at their 45 headed to the south endzone. On the play the dump pass was open but the right wr just kept going down the sideline and in front of us on our 40 he made a shallow post slant . Our guys were recovering thinking it was going to be a 20 yard pass, but he turned on the 4 star jets for a wide open TD. It was a go long for a td pass from the beginning. Ditto the UNC game- we were ahead and suddenly unc started passing deep - damn we lost.
BUT In 16 we finished strong =uga !kentucky!


We will soon see if playing defense faster is a cure or an embarasment. I bet " cure " because this year we will get the offense back on the field running the ball a lot sooner AND ROOF DID DAMN GOOD JOB BRING IN TALENT.. Long term the faster d will help recruit even better defensive players.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

The field was flooded 5 yds in from sidelines. Sure made the outside run game less effective.


Wet field arguments are not my favorite.
Wet, Cold, Hot are a whole lot about Grit = staying focused. I feel both teams played well in harsh conditions.


What sucked the life out of me, was end of game coaching decisions by our dc . At end of game he called defense scheme that let them hike, pivot throw 5-7 consecutive UNCHALLENGED sideline bubble screens This took almost no time with almost off clock. No shifting around to make them even have to think before they threw. Not one defense was called to say u must throw over middle was where our d l could tip it or a lb could read and come off coverage , a dl gets through for a sack.

That many passive plays at the end and then failure sucks the life out of a defense and the team. Kind of a what the heck - do u think we are that bad?

In 17 we did not finish strong uva! Duke! uga! imo embarrassing defense =can't fire the players = change.

Case for the dc
Does dc know our players do suck so much that our best plan is to let mia play open pitch and catch on the hope they miss field goal. Previous year 16 - gt just went in for score( iirc we went ahead). Miami was driving w easy dump passes against our bend and don't break (bait them down field with purposely open under coverage and no slant dl rush) defense. Well whoops the miami coach didn't follow the script! After about 3 plays they were at their 45 headed to the south endzone. On the play the dump pass was open but the right wr just kept going down the sideline and in front of us on our 40 he made a shallow post slant . Our guys were recovering thinking it was going to be a 20 yard pass, but he turned on the 4 star jets for a wide open TD. It was a go long for a td pass from the beginning. Ditto the UNC game- we were ahead and suddenly unc started passing deep - damn we lost.
BUT In 16 we finished strong =uga !kentucky!


We will soon see if playing defense faster is a cure or an embarasment. I bet " cure " because this year we will get the offense back on the field running the ball a lot sooner AND ROOF DID DAMN GOOD JOB BRING IN TALENT.. Long term the faster d will help recruit even better defensive players.

And without a miracle, that strategy would’ve worked. Nobody likes to talk about that.

I wonder what you would say if we had played tight man and gotten beat deep on a miracle reception?

 

[dressedcheeseside]

If that miracle play had fallen incomplete as it would have 99% of the time, I would have felt we just stole one.

 

[alentrekin]

Watch App State v. Miami, 2016. Bubble screens are them up too.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I’m not saying the defense was good, just that you’re giving credit to an offense that didn’t earn it last year. I understand throwing Duke on the Defense, but it was Offense and Special Teams that blew the UVA game.

UVA scored on a 92 yard kickoff return, and we had two interceptions—one to our 30 which led to a touchdown, and one on their side of the field where we held them to a punt. We also gave them two points when we recovered our own fumble in the end zone, which also gave them a free possession.

Our defense scored 7 on an interception, and forced a fumble deep in their territory, at their 14. We scored a touchdown from there.

Offense had drives of 5, 0, 1, 13, 1, 3, -3, and -7 yards. The -7 yard series was capped by a 36 yard punt that was returned “for no gain” to OUR 43. Held them to a field goal, there.

Yeah, the defense did give up 31. UVA starting field position for the first drive was the GT 34. Field goal. The second UVA score was a failed onside where they started at the GT 43. Field goal. The third score was a kickoff return for a touchdown. Then a 78 yard touchdown drive, and then a 30 yard touchdown drive. They won with a 64 yard drive. But, just two touchdowns on long drives in the entire game.

They had ridiculous starting field position.

The AP closing paragraph was “After Virginia went ahead in the closing minutes, the Yellow Jackets drove to the Cavaliers' 37, but on fourth down, Marshall was flushed from the pocket, scrambled toward his own sideline and threw a pass toward no one in particular that landed out of bounds, setting off a celebration at Scott Stadium.”

Special teams was awful in that game, and I can see blaming it on that unit, but offense was AWOL at best and self sabotaging at worst in that game.



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This is a great summary, and I remember watching this thinking that a lot of misinformed people were going to blame our defense for this game since Virginia scored 40 points. You do a great job of summarizing our offense's impotence. But I thinks its equally informing to show what Virginia's scoring drives looked like - here are Virginia's scoring drives:
* 16 yards
* 38 yards
* 0 yards
* 78 yards
* 30 yards
* 28 yards
* 0 yards
* 64 yards

Virginia's offense had only 2 scoring possessions all day that were longer than 38 yards. I mean look at that list. If you can't move the ball and you keep giving the opposing team the ball on our side of the field, there is only so many times the defense can not give up a single yard. FIVE SCORING DRIVES 30 yards or less by Virginia. Pathetic.

 

[gtwcf]

And without a miracle, that strategy would’ve worked. Nobody likes to talk about that.

I wonder what you would say if we had played tight man and gotten beat deep on a miracle reception?

We didn't get to 3rd down, much less 4th down until Roof FINALLY called for Lawrence to move up. Richt saw he was cutting up the D like butter and kept calling the same play....

 

[RamblinWreck92]

If that miracle play had fallen incomplete as it would have 99% of the time, I would have felt we just stole one.

Totally right. Take away the fluky special teams onside kick return TD and Miami would've been running the clock out rather than throwing Helmet bounce passes. Our O was mostly stagnant that game.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

Rain favors the heavier team.

Meh, the Oklahoma and Nebraska teams of the 70s and 80s never minded the rain and ran outside continuously using very-similar plays to ours. Miami's WRs had no problems running infinite numbers of bubble screens in it!

 

[GTRX7]

As others have said, both sides of the ball were definitely to blame against UVA, Duke, and Miami. More concerning, it seemed that both the O and the D got worse in the second half of each of those games. We just lacked depth, adjustments, or ideas : (

 

[jayparr]

I like our chances with every team on the schedule, with less "like" for the Clemson and Georgia games. Others might reasonably be favored -- VT, Louisville and Miami maybe -- but they can be had. I am not that certain about Clemson, which has opened a huge gap against ACC teams except possibly, maybe, FSU, and Georgia, which keeps stacking up recruits and I suspect will be back in the NC round before either FSU or Miami. I don't like 'em, but there they are. It is hard to battle 60 minutes against teams with a huge talent advantage. To me the schedule 10 deep is winnable. We'll be favored in some, underdogs in others, but can win them all. The other two, however, are Clemson, and I want to believe but that is a loaded roster that is quality deep. That would be a huge upset and might require another injury loss such as DeShaun Watson a few years back. Georgia, a big favorite, but adrenaline can equalize some things, and they can be got. Up next: Alcorn State.

************Very well put!! Yes; Clemson is seperating themselves from everyone else in the conference. Ga is also except for Bama. Both ga and Clemson had absolutely a great recruiting year! They both will be very hard to catch anytime soon. I do like our chances with everyone else!

 

[augustabuzz]

Meh, the Oklahoma and Nebraska teams of the 70s and 80s never minded the rain and ran outside continuously using very-similar plays to ours. Miami's WRs had no problems running infinite numbers of bubble screens in it!

That's because those Oklahona and Nebraska teams were normally the heavier team! They also played on astro- turf.

 

[MikeJackets1967]

That's because those Oklahona and Nebraska teams were normally the heavier team! They also played on astro- turf.

Don't forget Alabama using the wishbone from 1971-1982