Duke Vs Ga Tech Recruiting since 2015

BleedGoldNWhite21

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1,460
Maybe but I do think it’s unfair to not acknowledge Graham’s play, he has the tools to be an elite College Dual Threat QB. The offense as a whole is just going to get better every game and snap they play against P5 Competition and it starts with him at QB.

I like Graham. Aside from The Citadel where he was hurt, why wasn’t he the guy from Day 1? We were all calling it after the Clemson game but we played Russian Roulette with our QBs for another month. These are coaching decisions. And bad ones.
 

Ibeeballin

Im a 3*
Messages
6,080
We’ve been competitive with Duke? Thats news to me. This game looked exactly like the last 2 yrs
A86716A1-046B-499E-A354-B76C35224FB5.png

EEA805E7-0F20-4D53-BF62-1C0A555AE732.jpeg
 

SteamWhistle

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I like Graham. Aside from The Citadel where he was hurt, why wasn’t he the guy from Day 1? We were all calling it after the Clemson game but we played Russian Roulette with our QBs for another month. These are coaching decisions. And bad ones.
Graham screwed himself out of the QB1 roll by becoming ineligible last year. He was fighting all spring and summer to be eligible for this season.
 

steebu

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
625
Duke's recruiting ranking average since 2015 is about 48th and ours is about 49th. If they had all that support staff, they should have been doing better than barely top 50 I would think.

We often look at football in a vacuum, which you simply cannot do. [I just re-read thru this post and realized I'm getting on a soapbox, so get ready]

I am quoting your post, @Heisman's Ghost, to make a point, not to call you out. A few posts down after yours, @takethepoints lists a graph that shows average star rankings from GT, VT, Rice, Duke, etc.

What we need to consider is that Duke adding all that support staff GOT them to our level. If you look at @takethepoints 's graph, their average star ranking until 2014 was 2.4. The last few years it's been right on par with ours around 3.0. That is serious improvement. Duke used to be the doormat in the ACC; now, they're nobody's easy out. They aren't the Duke of 2006 (0-12).

The other thing we need to consider is recruiting doesn't offer instant success, particularly for teams like us, and that results, whether good or bad, are typically seen 3-4 years down the road. What it really translates into is Bobinski's Reign of Terror from 2013-2016 hurt us the most the last few years, from 2016-2019. Think about it like this: Bobinski basically put us on probation for 3 years, ergo, the senior classes from the last few years are the hardest hit. Recruiting misses are bad enough, but when you couple it with injuries the last 2 years it's a disaster. Remember: you can't look at football in a vacuum. So when people are screaming, "WE HAVE NO TALENT!!1!! WE SUCK!11!!" just pause for a moment, google Mike Bobinski's picture and take a dump on it. For those who still want to believe that CPJ just sucked at recruiting and only cared about rushing stats ... please go talk to any long-time AD employees and ask them what it was like from 2013-2016. I am not solely blaming Bobinski for our woes, but he is a major factor to consider. Injuries, poor coaching, and a bit of bad luck all combined for some recent bad trends. But it is extremely hard to do your job well when the top guy is sucking the life out of your program.

On the upside: all this new recruiting staff, Catapult, analytics, sports science, etc. can only help us get better. But we won't see immediate results until the next few years: last year's class had a solid 3.0 star rating ... and next year's class may be even better. And 2021 could be even better, so we are already seeing the results of TStan's efforts, but we may not see on-field results until 2021-2023 when those guys are redshirt seniors and juniors. Does that mean that we're bound for 1-11 seasons until 2021? Man, I sure hope not.

Which brings me to my last topic: our current coaching staff. I'll just sum up: they are young. Look, I love Tashard Choice. I'd run through a brick wall (and probably hurt myself real bad) for him. I really would. But please consider: before GT, his coaching experience as a position coach was ONE YEAR. At North Texas. Thacker was a D-Coordinator ... for ONE YEAR. Marco Coleman ... I interviewed him when I worked for the Technique ... I love that guy ... but ZERO years experience as a position coach. Nate Burton: ONE YEAR as a DB coach. If you really want to get down to it, the two most experienced guys at the FBS level are Key and Collins. Patenoob, for all his 24 years of coaching, has only 2 years at the FBS level. So while Loki might argue that "I consider experience, experience", I'm pretty sure that the defenses he (Patenoob, not Loki) faced at Holy Cross were probably less sophisticated than the ones Brent Venables or Bud Foster could dial up.

"We're not paying this staff millions to learn on the job."

Yeah, we kind of actually are. And that was TStan's gamble.

That's what happens when you hire a G5 coach with all of 2 years of experience. "But Urban Meyer/Nick Saban/Lincoln Riley* couldn't fix this." I actually believe they could, if they could hire their own staffs. Cale Gundy, who coaches slot receivers at OU, has 16 years of experience as a position coach. He just might know a few drills or teaching points that Kerry Dixon, who has 4 years of experience, might not. It doesn't solve the talent/depth issue, but really good coaches can scheme around issues. No, it doesn't mean Urban Mayer would coach us to a 41-10 upset over Clemson in the opener ... but most likely it means we wouldn't lose to Citadel or get blown out by Temple and Puke.

The reality is we have what we have (a cousin to iiwii): we have a fairly inexperienced coaching staff that's dealing with the aftermath of Bobinski's "leadership", converting to new schemes, and dealing with some really bad injuries at key positions. Remember the whole "vacuum" thing? There isn't one specific thing that's the problem.

I hope the attention and $$$ that TStan is throwing at football will help with recruiting and development.
I hope that the young staff gets better. No more not taking a timeout to prevent a 10-second runoff, please.
I hope that we can avoid any more catastrophic injuries.

I was hopeful that we would actually be better than we are, but again, the non-vacuum-y nature of football has conspired against us and we are where we are (a cousin of we have what we have).

We can continue to gripe and moan about every individual problem - and that's fun to do (well, for some). But when you do ... please keep in mind that there isn't always one specific cause for the current malaise ... and that our boys on the field are doing their best ... and for better or worse, it's going to be a rough few years. Let's see.

Someone get me a gauntlet so I can snap my fingers on this season.



* I still want all of Lincoln Riley's babies.
 

Lee34102

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
67
Location
Naples, FL
I believe that all Duke / GT recruits should be provided with pictures of their ludicrously empty stands from yesterday's game, it's an outright embarrassment...
 

4shotB

Helluva Engineer
Retired Staff
Messages
4,927
We often look at football in a vacuum, which you simply cannot do. [I just re-read thru this post and realized I'm getting on a soapbox, so get ready]





* I still want all of Lincoln Riley's babies.

Thank you for posting this. We have some regulars on here who would really benefit from taking the time to read AND comprehend this and stepping back away from the ledge for next 2-3 years. Excellent synopsis of where we are and how we got there.

As an aside, this transition (for all the reasons you have noted above) is the final kiss of death for option FB in P5. An outsider is not going to be aware of these factors or take the time to sift through the rubble.
 

Heisman's Ghost

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Location
Albany Georgia
We often look at football in a vacuum, which you simply cannot do. [I just re-read thru this post and realized I'm getting on a soapbox, so get ready]

I am quoting your post, @Heisman's Ghost, to make a point, not to call you out. A few posts down after yours, @takethepoints lists a graph that shows average star rankings from GT, VT, Rice, Duke, etc.

What we need to consider is that Duke adding all that support staff GOT them to our level. If you look at @takethepoints 's graph, their average star ranking until 2014 was 2.4. The last few years it's been right on par with ours around 3.0. That is serious improvement. Duke used to be the doormat in the ACC; now, they're nobody's easy out. They aren't the Duke of 2006 (0-12).

The other thing we need to consider is recruiting doesn't offer instant success, particularly for teams like us, and that results, whether good or bad, are typically seen 3-4 years down the road. What it really translates into is Bobinski's Reign of Terror from 2013-2016 hurt us the most the last few years, from 2016-2019. Think about it like this: Bobinski basically put us on probation for 3 years, ergo, the senior classes from the last few years are the hardest hit. Recruiting misses are bad enough, but when you couple it with injuries the last 2 years it's a disaster. Remember: you can't look at football in a vacuum. So when people are screaming, "WE HAVE NO TALENT!!1!! WE SUCK!11!!" just pause for a moment, google Mike Bobinski's picture and take a dump on it. For those who still want to believe that CPJ just sucked at recruiting and only cared about rushing stats ... please go talk to any long-time AD employees and ask them what it was like from 2013-2016. I am not solely blaming Bobinski for our woes, but he is a major factor to consider. Injuries, poor coaching, and a bit of bad luck all combined for some recent bad trends. But it is extremely hard to do your job well when the top guy is sucking the life out of your program.

On the upside: all this new recruiting staff, Catapult, analytics, sports science, etc. can only help us get better. But we won't see immediate results until the next few years: last year's class had a solid 3.0 star rating ... and next year's class may be even better. And 2021 could be even better, so we are already seeing the results of TStan's efforts, but we may not see on-field results until 2021-2023 when those guys are redshirt seniors and juniors. Does that mean that we're bound for 1-11 seasons until 2021? Man, I sure hope not.

Which brings me to my last topic: our current coaching staff. I'll just sum up: they are young. Look, I love Tashard Choice. I'd run through a brick wall (and probably hurt myself real bad) for him. I really would. But please consider: before GT, his coaching experience as a position coach was ONE YEAR. At North Texas. Thacker was a D-Coordinator ... for ONE YEAR. Marco Coleman ... I interviewed him when I worked for the Technique ... I love that guy ... but ZERO years experience as a position coach. Nate Burton: ONE YEAR as a DB coach. If you really want to get down to it, the two most experienced guys at the FBS level are Key and Collins. Patenoob, for all his 24 years of coaching, has only 2 years at the FBS level. So while Loki might argue that "I consider experience, experience", I'm pretty sure that the defenses he (Patenoob, not Loki) faced at Holy Cross were probably less sophisticated than the ones Brent Venables or Bud Foster could dial up.

"We're not paying this staff millions to learn on the job."

Yeah, we kind of actually are. And that was TStan's gamble.

That's what happens when you hire a G5 coach with all of 2 years of experience. "But Urban Meyer/Nick Saban/Lincoln Riley* couldn't fix this." I actually believe they could, if they could hire their own staffs. Cale Gundy, who coaches slot receivers at OU, has 16 years of experience as a position coach. He just might know a few drills or teaching points that Kerry Dixon, who has 4 years of experience, might not. It doesn't solve the talent/depth issue, but really good coaches can scheme around issues. No, it doesn't mean Urban Mayer would coach us to a 41-10 upset over Clemson in the opener ... but most likely it means we wouldn't lose to Citadel or get blown out by Temple and Puke.

The reality is we have what we have (a cousin to iiwii): we have a fairly inexperienced coaching staff that's dealing with the aftermath of Bobinski's "leadership", converting to new schemes, and dealing with some really bad injuries at key positions. Remember the whole "vacuum" thing? There isn't one specific thing that's the problem.

I hope the attention and $$$ that TStan is throwing at football will help with recruiting and development.
I hope that the young staff gets better. No more not taking a timeout to prevent a 10-second runoff, please.
I hope that we can avoid any more catastrophic injuries.

I was hopeful that we would actually be better than we are, but again, the non-vacuum-y nature of football has conspired against us and we are where we are (a cousin of we have what we have).

We can continue to gripe and moan about every individual problem - and that's fun to do (well, for some). But when you do ... please keep in mind that there isn't always one specific cause for the current malaise ... and that our boys on the field are doing their best ... and for better or worse, it's going to be a rough few years. Let's see.

Someone get me a gauntlet so I can snap my fingers on this season.



* I still want all of Lincoln Riley's babies.

It may be in a vacuum or it may not. The fact is, the game yesterday was effectively over by half time. Your point about MBob is spot on. The man had some kind of vendetta against Coach Johnson and deliberately chose to cut off support to the football program. Absolutely inexcusable. It will be a long time before we recover from the selfish antics of a few people who for a variety of motives chose to harm a program that is tradition steeped and storied. Sad.
 

MacJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,360
After these first 2 years, Collins would have to go on a program historic run to get back to what the past 10 years produced.



We had a HC that couldn’t recruit but could scheme and develop. We replaced him with a HC who can recruit but can’t scheme and develop.

The Law of Tech Sports achieved.

Lost me at “develop”. How many guys did CPJ put in the league the past few years? I can assure you it’s very few.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

4shotB

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Retired Staff
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It may be in a vacuum or it may not. The fact is, the game yesterday was effectively over by half time. Your point about MBob is spot on. The man had some kind of vendetta against Coach Johnson and deliberately chose to cut off support to the football program. Absolutely inexcusable. It will be a long time before we recover from the selfish antics of a few people who for a variety of motives chose to harm a program that is tradition steeped and storied. Sad.

I also thinks it speaks to apathy or incompetence or both at the level above the AD. To see a fit between GT's culture and MBob and thus make the hire is borderline criminal negligence and speaks to another root cause problem of our current athletic woes.
 
Messages
2,034
Lost me at “develop”. How many guys did CPJ put in the league the past few years? I can assure you it’s very few.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2017 7 15 233 Harrison Butker Carolina Panthers K
2016 2 32 63 Adam Gotsis Denver Broncos DT
6 3 178 D.J. White Kansas City Chiefs DB
2015 4 32 131 Shaq Mason New England Patriots C
4 33 132 DeAndre Smelter San Francisco 49ers WR
6 28 204 Darren Waller Baltimore Ravens WR
2014 2 18 50 Jeremiah Attaochu San Diego Chargers LB
6 30 206 Jemea Thomas New England Patriots DB
7 8 223 Brandon Watts Minnesota Vikings LB
2012 2 11 43 Stephen Hill New York Jets WR
2011 7 22 225 Anthony Allen Baltimore Ravens RB
2010 1 16 16 Derrick Morgan Tennessee Titans DE
1 22 22 Demaryius Thomas Denver Broncos WR
3 7 71 Morgan Burnett Green Bay Packers DB
6 19 188 Jonathan Dwyer Pittsburgh Steelers RB
2009 3 6 70 Michael Johnson Cincinnati Bengals DE
6 8 181 Andrew Gardner Miami Dolphins T
7 1 210 Vance Walker Atlanta Falcons DT
7 25 234 Darryl Richard New England Patriots DT
2008 3 30 93 Philip Wheeler Indianapolis Colts LB
4 23 122 Tashard Choice Dallas Cowboys RB
6 2 168 Durant Brooks Washington Redskins P
2007 1 2 2 Calvin Johnson Detroit Lions WR
4 25 124 Mansfield Wrotto Seattle Seahawks G
2006 3 32 96 Gerris Wilkinson New York Giants LB
4 35 132 P.J. Daniels Baltimore Ravens RB
5 13 146 Dawan Landry Baltimore Ravens DB
2004 2 7 39 Daryl Smith Jacksonville Jaguars LB
3 28 91 Tony Hargrove St. Louis Rams DE
3 30 93 Keyaron Fox Kansas City Chiefs LB
4 19 115 Nat Dorsey Minnesota Vikings T
7 13 214 Jonathan Smith Buffalo Bills RB
2003 2 0 0 Tony Hollings Houston Texans RB
2002 6 5 177 Nick Rogers Minnesota Vikings LB
7 17 228 Chris Young Denver Broncos DB
2000 2 27 58 Travares Tillman Buffalo Bills DB
3 7 69 Dez White Chicago Bears WR
7 28 234 Joe Hamilton Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB
1999 4 12 107 Nate Stimson Washington Redskins LB
5 19 152 Charlie Rogers Seattle Seahawks WR
7 46 252 Rodney Williams St. Louis Rams P
1998 1 12 12 Keith Brooking Atlanta Falcons LB
6 1 154 Ron Rogers Baltimore Ravens LB
1996 2 30 60 Michael Cheever Jacksonville Jaguars C
3 15 76 Ryan Stewart Detroit Lions DB
1995 5 17 151 Lethon Flowers Pittsburgh Steelers DB
6 2 173 Charlie Simmons Green Bay Packers WR
7 21 229 Jamal Cox Chicago Bears LB
1994 5 17 148 Gary Brown Pittsburgh Steelers T
5 18 149 Dorsey Levens Green Bay Packers RB
1993 2 7 36 Coleman Rudolph New York Jets DE
5 1 113 Scott Sisson New England Patriots K
1992 1 12 12 Marco Coleman Miami Dolphins DE
4 24 108 Mike Mooney Houston Oilers T
7 16 184 Ken Swilling Tampa Bay Buccaneers DB
8 25 221 Willie Clay Detroit Lions DB
11 20 300 Tom Covington San Francisco 49ers TE
1991 7 7 174 Calvin Tiggle Tampa Bay Buccaneers LB
10 18 268 Jim Lavin Cincinnati Ben


About the same amount as every other coach at Tech since Ross
 

JacketOff

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,951
2017 7 15 233 Harrison Butker Carolina Panthers K
2016 2 32 63 Adam Gotsis Denver Broncos DT
6 3 178 D.J. White Kansas City Chiefs DB
2015 4 32 131 Shaq Mason New England Patriots C
4 33 132 DeAndre Smelter San Francisco 49ers WR
6 28 204 Darren Waller Baltimore Ravens WR
2014 2 18 50 Jeremiah Attaochu San Diego Chargers LB
6 30 206 Jemea Thomas New England Patriots DB
7 8 223 Brandon Watts Minnesota Vikings LB
2012 2 11 43 Stephen Hill New York Jets WR
2011 7 22 225 Anthony Allen Baltimore Ravens RB
2010 1 16 16 Derrick Morgan Tennessee Titans DE
1 22 22 Demaryius Thomas Denver Broncos WR
3 7 71 Morgan Burnett Green Bay Packers DB
6 19 188 Jonathan Dwyer Pittsburgh Steelers RB
2009 3 6 70 Michael Johnson Cincinnati Bengals DE
6 8 181 Andrew Gardner Miami Dolphins T
7 1 210 Vance Walker Atlanta Falcons DT
7 25 234 Darryl Richard New England Patriots DT
2008 3 30 93 Philip Wheeler Indianapolis Colts LB
4 23 122 Tashard Choice Dallas Cowboys RB
6 2 168 Durant Brooks Washington Redskins P
2007 1 2 2 Calvin Johnson Detroit Lions WR
4 25 124 Mansfield Wrotto Seattle Seahawks G
2006 3 32 96 Gerris Wilkinson New York Giants LB
4 35 132 P.J. Daniels Baltimore Ravens RB
5 13 146 Dawan Landry Baltimore Ravens DB
2004 2 7 39 Daryl Smith Jacksonville Jaguars LB
3 28 91 Tony Hargrove St. Louis Rams DE
3 30 93 Keyaron Fox Kansas City Chiefs LB
4 19 115 Nat Dorsey Minnesota Vikings T
7 13 214 Jonathan Smith Buffalo Bills RB
2003 2 0 0 Tony Hollings Houston Texans RB
2002 6 5 177 Nick Rogers Minnesota Vikings LB
7 17 228 Chris Young Denver Broncos DB
2000 2 27 58 Travares Tillman Buffalo Bills DB
3 7 69 Dez White Chicago Bears WR
7 28 234 Joe Hamilton Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB
1999 4 12 107 Nate Stimson Washington Redskins LB
5 19 152 Charlie Rogers Seattle Seahawks WR
7 46 252 Rodney Williams St. Louis Rams P
1998 1 12 12 Keith Brooking Atlanta Falcons LB
6 1 154 Ron Rogers Baltimore Ravens LB
1996 2 30 60 Michael Cheever Jacksonville Jaguars C
3 15 76 Ryan Stewart Detroit Lions DB
1995 5 17 151 Lethon Flowers Pittsburgh Steelers DB
6 2 173 Charlie Simmons Green Bay Packers WR
7 21 229 Jamal Cox Chicago Bears LB
1994 5 17 148 Gary Brown Pittsburgh Steelers T
5 18 149 Dorsey Levens Green Bay Packers RB
1993 2 7 36 Coleman Rudolph New York Jets DE
5 1 113 Scott Sisson New England Patriots K
1992 1 12 12 Marco Coleman Miami Dolphins DE
4 24 108 Mike Mooney Houston Oilers T
7 16 184 Ken Swilling Tampa Bay Buccaneers DB
8 25 221 Willie Clay Detroit Lions DB
11 20 300 Tom Covington San Francisco 49ers TE
1991 7 7 174 Calvin Tiggle Tampa Bay Buccaneers LB
10 18 268 Jim Lavin Cincinnati Ben


About the same amount as every other coach at Tech since Ross
This post is very intriguing. Under CPJ, Tech had 19 players drafted in 11 years. Coincidentally, 4 of those players were in the 2010 senior class, which would’ve been the 2006 signing class (aka CGC’s year). That means that a quarter of CPJ’s drafted players came from a recruiting class that was at least partially put together by Geoff Collins.
 
Messages
2,034
This post is very intriguing. Under CPJ, Tech had 19 players drafted in 11 years. Coincidentally, 4 of those players were in the 2010 senior class, which would’ve been the 2006 signing class (aka CGC’s year). That means that a quarter of CPJ’s drafted players came from a recruiting class that was at least partially put together by Geoff Collins.

And another intriguing question. Would Demerious Thomas gone as high as he did if he had continued in the Gailey system. He would have had more double coverage and thrown to maybe less. He had the physical skills but his stats were off the charts in 2009.
 

BleedGoldNWhite21

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,460
We’ve been competitive with Duke? Thats news to me. This game looked exactly like the last 2 yrs
View attachment 6934
View attachment 6935

Dude, we haven’t been competitive in four of our six games this year and one of those “competitive” games was a loss to an FCS team. We lost like four or five games in 17 and 18 where we had double digit second half leads( off the top of my head I remember Tenn, Miami, UVA, USF). We were in most games. In fact, you could argue Clemson, UGA and, yes, Duke are the only teams that have straight up beaten us consistently the last two years. This idea that Collins has taken over a bottom-dweller is simply wrong. We weren’t world beaters, but none of the Coastal has been. This is how many wins each Coastal team had the last two years:

Miami(17)
VT(15)
Duke(14)
UVA(13)
GT(12)
Pitt(12)
UNC(5)

Now here’s our record against those teams in those years:

Miami(1-1)
VT(2-0)
Duke(0-2)
UVA(1-1)
Pitt(0-2)
UNC(2-0)

6-6 in the Coastal the last two years. Basically, there has been no separation in the Coastal. It’s a bunch of mediocrity, but we, along with everyone else, have been firmly in the pack. There is no reason for us to not be more competitive. You can blame losses on the new system and that’s understandable, but how we’re losing is worrying.
 

alagold

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,721
Location
Huntsville,Al
So if my math is correct, the avg national rank over the five years:

Duke - 48.8
Tech - 49.4

Zero difference in recruiting. Especially considering most of the *** clowns that drive the recruiting rankings aren’t qualified for it.

I will concede that duke obviously didn’t change their scheme so their players were recruited for the system but otherwise the recruiting differences are nil.

Our injury rate over the last five years seems to be on the ridiculous level though....

Also, our loss of players (for whatever reason) is a major factor.
 
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