Duke Postgame

[Boomergump]

Thanks for the summary. I guess that leaves me with just two questions - he is in his 4th year and the HC is in his 9th here (give or take on both). Why has he been dealt a bad hand? (in other words, what is changing going forward to improve his hand? Some coaches can affect change in much shorter periods of time). The second - assuming the hand is bad - is he getting all that he can out of them? (or, in other words, could someone else do better with the same personnel?)

Let me be clear - i ask these questions for discussion purposes only. I like and respect our coaching staff and want them all to be succesful enough at Tech to retire here.

Look, I am not into playing the blame game. I said CTR has been dealt a tough hand in terms of personnel and I meant it. You decide who you need to hold accountable. Filling a roster is not automatic. Everybody has done the best they can is the way I look at it. I am just commenting on the current situation and what decisions are being made, game in and game out. We go to war with the troops and weapons we have, not the ones we wish we had. Our job is to win with what we have.

 

[wreckrod]

A few more thoughts after watching about a quarter of the replay and having a day to digest:

We won. After having lost to DOOK the last two seasons, getting this win, however flawed, means something.

I am still unhappy about the body language of our players. Something is wrong.

For those of you mad at Roof, what would you do differently? I am not so sure blitzing all over the place and pressing with CBs is the way to go with our current personnel. If you press and blitz, you are pretty much guaranteed to get a ton of deep fade throws to WRs, dump offs to RBs, and or quick throws to TEs. At CB, we are not terribly fast nor long, which are the two most important characteristics when facing deep fades. Our LBS are not fast, nor are they long either, so when a TE releases..... You see what I am saying? If you get what you wish for, I am not sure you would like the results.

The Austin twins would be great, if we had a dominant DL with crazy penetration and a ton of QB hurries etc. Their strength is tackling and taking away slants etc. We don't have that with the current DL. If you force them to cover deep, for long periods, against fast and tall people, when the opposition QB can take his time....oh boy.

CTR has been dealt a tough hand. Possibly he could have played it better in past seasons, but this season? I am not so sure how I would go about planning for our current group. We are not fast, we are not physical up front, we are not long either along the boundary. Perhaps his game plans are not as bad as we all want to claim. We have some people who are coming along to address the shortcomings: LS and DW at CB, VA and TL at LB, and BA at DT. However, if they aren't quite ready, what is a DC to do?

JT is a pretty darned good passer.

Don't over-analyze DOOK forcing us out of what we like to do on offense. So we didn't get a ton of yards off the pitch. So we didn't get a ton of yards off the dive. So we weren't able to impose our will in some ways. We WERE able to take what they gave us and make them pay, which is the sign of a good offense. They made a choice to make JT beat them with his arm and his feet and he did just that.

My problem with Roof is the definition of insanity: he keeps doing the same things.

I'm sorry but deep fades are not high percentage passes for anybody. Let's play press bump and run and make the other QB and the WR prove they can make those plays at will. If they can do that whenever they want and on 3rd and long then hats off to them. But we don't make anybody prove anything, we just concede the first down by lining up 3-4 yards behind the sticks.

Yeah we need to recruit better. But I don't care who you recruit - things like positive attitudes and knowing what to do and where to go and how to line up, that's on the coaching staff. For all that Roof has been dealt a poor hand, he's done nothing with it.

Some plays don't bother me. When Correy Griffin played the ball and missed and the TE scored a TD, hey, that was a good throw and catch and our guy was in position to make a play and didn't. That happens. What does bother me is an obvious systemic problem with having no awareness of Duke's TEs in general. Maybe we don't have a Jemea Thomas to shut down Erik Ebron - but if we are playing nickel then put AJ Gray on him - he's at least a better size and speed than a LBer trying to cover that.

The main thing is we are obviously ill prepared despite having an extra week. It'd be different if we had guys in position and Dook was just breaking tackles or catching balls barely out of reach of our defenders. We may not have ESPN noteworthy defensive potential out there, but there's more available than what's being had.

 

[iceeater1969]

A few more thoughts after watching about a quarter of the replay and having a day to digest:

We won. After having lost to DOOK the last two seasons, getting this win, however flawed, means something.

I am still unhappy about the body language of our players. Something is wrong.

For those of you mad at Roof, what would you do differently? I am not so sure blitzing all over the place and pressing with CBs is the way to go with our current personnel. If you press and blitz, you are pretty much guaranteed to get a ton of deep fade throws to WRs, dump offs to RBs, and or quick throws to TEs. At CB, we are not terribly fast nor long, which are the two most important characteristics when facing deep fades. Our LBS are not fast, nor are they long either, so when a TE releases..... You see what I am saying? If you get what you wish for, I am not sure you would like the results.

The Austin twins would be great, if we had a dominant DL with crazy penetration and a ton of QB hurries etc. Their strength is tackling and taking away slants etc. We don't have that with the current DL. If you force them to cover deep, for long periods, against fast and tall people, when the opposition QB can take his time....oh boy.

CTR has been dealt a tough hand. Possibly he could have played it better in past seasons, but this season? I am not so sure how I would go about planning for our current group. We are not fast, we are not physical up front, we are not long either along the boundary. Perhaps his game plans are not as bad as we all want to claim. We have some people who are coming along to address the shortcomings: LS and DW at CB, VA and TL at LB, and BA at DT. However, if they aren't quite ready, what is a DC to do?

JT is a pretty darned good passer.

Don't over-analyze DOOK forcing us out of what we like to do on offense. So we didn't get a ton of yards off the pitch. So we didn't get a ton of yards off the dive. So we weren't able to impose our will in some ways. We WERE able to take what they gave us and make them pay, which is the sign of a good offense. They made a choice to make JT beat them with his arm and his feet and he did just that.

How do we know that we will fail further than what ae87 says LAST in America on 3rd down?


Question 1: who says blitz a lot? Almost No one. Let's quit answering that.


Question 2 Would it hurt to have 8 near the line of with some of them ocassionally blitzing-or occasionally have only 3 rushing - BUT most of the time dropping into standard coverage?

42 or or 41 jamming on the te then dropping into cover or sending the twins while the safeties come down in coverage would at least look like we are TRUSTING the guys we recruited . In the first half of Duke I saw how they reacted to the slightly more aggressive style. After coming off field to cheers of defense defense , 54 came over towards the stands past the bench and raised his arms with clenched fists . Guy looks damn big to me.

Graduation and injuries are not the friend of the idea that gradually improving recruiting will result in the "perfect" time to blitz.

 

[up state jacket]

I'm glad we won.

JT was in beast mode today.

How anyone can defend Roof at this point is beyond me. I'm sure Jerry will be along to tell us how fortunate we are to have ol Ted as our DC.

Yeah 3 years is plenty of time to stock pile DL, LB, and elite DB's. You know Roof isn't a magician right? Paul has only had 8 full years to develop a passing attack and good OL play. Yeah that sounds about right. Don't forget when Ted arrived he had 3-4 scheme players and mass confusion on that side of the ball. But you guys are right roof really has done nothing at Tech? Geesh talk about realistic expectations?

 

[jeffgt14]

A few more thoughts after watching about a quarter of the replay and having a day to digest:

We won. After having lost to DOOK the last two seasons, getting this win, however flawed, means something.

I am still unhappy about the body language of our players. Something is wrong.

For those of you mad at Roof, what would you do differently? I am not so sure blitzing all over the place and pressing with CBs is the way to go with our current personnel. If you press and blitz, you are pretty much guaranteed to get a ton of deep fade throws to WRs, dump offs to RBs, and or quick throws to TEs. At CB, we are not terribly fast nor long, which are the two most important characteristics when facing deep fades. Our LBS are not fast, nor are they long either, so when a TE releases..... You see what I am saying? If you get what you wish for, I am not sure you would like the results.

The Austin twins would be great, if we had a dominant DL with crazy penetration and a ton of QB hurries etc. Their strength is tackling and taking away slants etc. We don't have that with the current DL. If you force them to cover deep, for long periods, against fast and tall people, when the opposition QB can take his time....oh boy.

CTR has been dealt a tough hand. Possibly he could have played it better in past seasons, but this season? I am not so sure how I would go about planning for our current group. We are not fast, we are not physical up front, we are not long either along the boundary. Perhaps his game plans are not as bad as we all want to claim. We have some people who are coming along to address the shortcomings: LS and DW at CB, VA and TL at LB, and BA at DT. However, if they aren't quite ready, what is a DC to do?

JT is a pretty darned good passer.

Don't over-analyze DOOK forcing us out of what we like to do on offense. So we didn't get a ton of yards off the pitch. So we didn't get a ton of yards off the dive. So we weren't able to impose our will in some ways. We WERE able to take what they gave us and make them pay, which is the sign of a good offense. They made a choice to make JT beat them with his arm and his feet and he did just that.

I agree with most of this. There's a lot I'd like Roof to do differently sometimes and I'm not claiming we have a good defense but I liked a lot of what he called in the first half. The long run that ended in an AJ strip was someone taking the wrong gap. I thought he mixed up blitzing with press coverage and playing off very well. Quite a few of Duke's first down plays in the first half were well drawn up plays. Something changed after the 2 fumbles and our D got flustered primarily with communication and emotion. I thought the body language was fine there first half. Not so much the 2nd.

 

[4shotB]

Look, I am not into playing the blame game. I said CTR has been dealt a tough hand in terms of personnel and I meant it. You decide who you need to hold accountable. Filling a roster is not automatic. Everybody has done the best they can is the way I look at it. I am just commenting on the current situation and what decisions are being made, game in and game out. We go to war with the troops and weapons we have, not the ones we wish we had. Our job is to win with what we have.

as a coach, you state that Roof has been dealt a bad hand but then ask him to go win with what we have. that's a tough position to put him in. I will say this, I think we all agree that Tech has built in obstacles. With that being said, I don't think the previous regime was dealt a bad hand in terms of talent and yet, they had the very same obstacles. Were CJT and CCG better at identifying talent than our current staff? How can CTR and CPJ improve in this area? what did the previous staff know that these guys don't (the converse of this statement is also true - what does CPJ know about O that CCG and his OC did not know? Although this topic does not help us, the program or the coaches as it no longer makes a difference)

 

[Jmonty71]

A few more thoughts after watching about a quarter of the replay and having a day to digest:

We won. After having lost to DOOK the last two seasons, getting this win, however flawed, means something.

I am still unhappy about the body language of our players. Something is wrong.

For those of you mad at Roof, what would you do differently? I am not so sure blitzing all over the place and pressing with CBs is the way to go with our current personnel. If you press and blitz, you are pretty much guaranteed to get a ton of deep fade throws to WRs, dump offs to RBs, and or quick throws to TEs. At CB, we are not terribly fast nor long, which are the two most important characteristics when facing deep fades. Our LBS are not fast, nor are they long either, so when a TE releases..... You see what I am saying? If you get what you wish for, I am not sure you would like the results.

The Austin twins would be great, if we had a dominant DL with crazy penetration and a ton of QB hurries etc. Their strength is tackling and taking away slants etc. We don't have that with the current DL. If you force them to cover deep, for long periods, against fast and tall people, when the opposition QB can take his time....oh boy.

CTR has been dealt a tough hand. Possibly he could have played it better in past seasons, but this season? I am not so sure how I would go about planning for our current group. We are not fast, we are not physical up front, we are not long either along the boundary. Perhaps his game plans are not as bad as we all want to claim. We have some people who are coming along to address the shortcomings: LS and DW at CB, VA and TL at LB, and BA at DT. However, if they aren't quite ready, what is a DC to do?

JT is a pretty darned good passer.

Don't over-analyze DOOK forcing us out of what we like to do on offense. So we didn't get a ton of yards off the pitch. So we didn't get a ton of yards off the dive. So we weren't able to impose our will in some ways. We WERE able to take what they gave us and make them pay, which is the sign of a good offense. They made a choice to make JT beat them with his arm and his feet and he did just that.

Is that, in a way, throwing blame on the players? I'm sorry, our talent level isn't the bottom of the gutter, so please don't make it out to sound that way. So, Army has more talented people on defense, then us? Just trying to understand why the players get thrown under the bus. And no......you do not have to go blitz happy, but mixing up coverages help. Also, you can fake blitzes. Roof just runs a non attack style that gets punished. But, then people blame the kids. Nice.

 

[AE 87]

A few more thoughts after watching about a quarter of the replay and having a day to digest:

We won. After having lost to DOOK the last two seasons, getting this win, however flawed, means something.

I am still unhappy about the body language of our players. Something is wrong.

For those of you mad at Roof, what would you do differently? I am not so sure blitzing all over the place and pressing with CBs is the way to go with our current personnel. If you press and blitz, you are pretty much guaranteed to get a ton of deep fade throws to WRs, dump offs to RBs, and or quick throws to TEs. At CB, we are not terribly fast nor long, which are the two most important characteristics when facing deep fades. Our LBS are not fast, nor are they long either, so when a TE releases..... You see what I am saying? If you get what you wish for, I am not sure you would like the results.

The Austin twins would be great, if we had a dominant DL with crazy penetration and a ton of QB hurries etc. Their strength is tackling and taking away slants etc. We don't have that with the current DL. If you force them to cover deep, for long periods, against fast and tall people, when the opposition QB can take his time....oh boy.

CTR has been dealt a tough hand. Possibly he could have played it better in past seasons, but this season? I am not so sure how I would go about planning for our current group. We are not fast, we are not physical up front, we are not long either along the boundary. Perhaps his game plans are not as bad as we all want to claim. We have some people who are coming along to address the shortcomings: LS and DW at CB, VA and TL at LB, and BA at DT. However, if they aren't quite ready, what is a DC to do?

JT is a pretty darned good passer.

Don't over-analyze DOOK forcing us out of what we like to do on offense. So we didn't get a ton of yards off the pitch. So we didn't get a ton of yards off the dive. So we weren't able to impose our will in some ways. We WERE able to take what they gave us and make them pay, which is the sign of a good offense. They made a choice to make JT beat them with his arm and his feet and he did just that.

I don't know enough to say what I'd do to improve. I'm bothered that our coaches apparently don't either.

I simply don't buy the idea that our personnel on D are that much worse than everyone elses.

I think talent can make a big difference at the top, but coaching is a bigger deal through most of the league.

 

[sidewalkGTfan]

Some of you guys act like we stole all of our D players from the likes of Tulane and Middle Tenn State. Has anyone noticed that our D seems to be getting WORSE as the season progresses? For Christ sake, we just gave up almost 600 yards to one of the worst offenses in the ACC, but hey, were fielding a bunch of D3 players on D so who could possibly coach these guys up???

I'm not asking for a lights out D, I'm just asking for something respectable.

 

[MWBATL]

Don't over-analyze DOOK forcing us out of what we like to do on offense. So we didn't get a ton of yards off the pitch. So we didn't get a ton of yards off the dive. So we weren't able to impose our will in some ways. We WERE able to take what they gave us and make them pay, which is the sign of a good offense. They made a choice to make JT beat them with his arm and his feet and he did just that.

I could not agree more strongly with a statement than this one. Our offense did exactly what it was supposed to do...take what the defense gave us. They decided to gamble on whether JeT could beat them. JeT beat them. Job well done!

 

[MWBATL]

For those of you mad at Roof, what would you do differently?

I posted a number of things in another thread, and will repeat only a couple of them here....

1. Play Brandon Adams. yes, I know you give up something when he is in the game. He has no pass rush. He has little or no lateral movement. He doesn't have the stamina we want. Play him anyway. He stops up the middle, completely. Totally. You just cannot run near him. What you're doing is failing, so you must try to do some things differently, and you are letting your fears of what will happen if you play him get the best of you. I would try getting him off the field for 3rd and long plays, of course. be sensible. But play him A LOT more.
2. I think we do a horrid job of disguising our defenses. We basically line up and wait for the snap. I don't understand why we don't have 5 guys jumping on and out of the line before the snap....make them wonder on every play what we are doing defensively. Can this really hurt us to try?

On a more general note, do you really truly believe our athletes on defense are that much worse than Army's (13 points allowed to Duke)? Than Wake Forest's (14 points)? Virginia's (20 points)? Are we seriously that deficient and devoid of talent that we are far behind these programs athletically? Could it no the possible that our coaching and scheme have something to do with it, even if we fans cannot pin down exactly what we should do differently?

Personally, I would try blitzing more, BUT only against opponents where it makes sense. For example, Miami, with a drop back, immobile QB. Not so much against teams with fast passing attacks designed to avoid blitzes. So, blitzing to me is situational and scheme driven, not just something one does all the time. Nevertheless, I would be more aggressive defensively, but will also admit it will result in allowing more home runs against. I personally would prefer to see that approach, but admit it as a preference, not necessarily as the best defensive scheme always.

 

[collegeballfan]

Re defense in college ball today. The days of the 7 - 6 win by GT over Ala in 1962 are pretty much gone. Rule changes. Offense sells tickets.
If I may paraphrase Pat Head Summit, offense wins fans, defense wins games and turnovers wins championships (apologies Pat)

Here are this weekends top 10 scores ( #1 had a bye week)
32 - 23
37 - 34
31 - 24
32 - 25
24 - 20
52 - 10 (the 10 by New Mex State)
23 - 17
17-23
24-10

What DC are we gonna hire? There are a bunch of lousy DC out there per these scores. I guess the one that gave up 10 to NMS.

 

[MWBATL]

Re defense in college ball today. The days of the 7 - 6 win by GT over Ala in 1962 are pretty much gone. Rule changes. Offense sells tickets.
If I may paraphrase Pat Head Summit, offense wins fans, defense wins games and turnovers wins championships (apologies Pat)

Here are this weekends top 10 scores ( #1 had a bye week)
32 - 23
37 - 34
31 - 24
32 - 25
24 - 20
52 - 10 (the 10 by New Mex State)
23 - 17
17-23
24-10

What DC are we gonna hire? There are a bunch of lousy DC out there per these scores. I guess the one that gave up 10 to NMS.

While all that is true, we still have a BOTTOM 5 defense amongst all Power 5 college teams. So while all defenses are "worse" than the "good old days", ours is worse than just about EVERYONE else's. We're fighting with Purdue for bottom leadership. The relative ranking is relevant and what everyone is upset about.

 

[Frenchise]

I've said it before. We've got a slow and weak dline. Pat is the only strong and fast guy. Other than him we've got undersized guys on the edge who lack power and big guys in the middle who can't move.

We've got slow LBs. We've got undersized DBs with barely adequate speed.

We've got decent safeties.

You can stop the run with those players. Passing...you're not gonna have a good time.

Moreover, the real issue is the confusion out there. What is that happening to tech guys? We left a WR open on the goal line and had to call a timeout. WTF.

I'm getting Al Groh flashbacks.

You can maximize what you've got, but there is mass communication behind the line. What is causing that?

That is the question. I'm going to ask it tomorrow.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I think vs Puke we really felt the loss of PJ.

 

[Frenchise]

I've said it before. We've got a slow and weak dline. Pat is the only strong and fast guy. Other than him we've got undersized guys on the edge who lack power and big guys in the middle who can't move.

We've got slow LBs. We've got undersized DBs with barely adequate speed.

We've got decent safeties.

You can stop the run with those players. Passing...you're not gonna have a good time.

Moreover, the real issue is the confusion out there. What is that happening to tech guys? We left a WR open on the goal line and had to call a timeout. WTF.

I'm getting Al Groh flashbacks.

You can maximize what you've got, but there is mass communication behind the line. What is causing that?

That is the question. I'm going to ask it tomorrow.

Mass confusion*

 

[gtg936g]

I don't get the "Adams is too out of shape to play a series" theory. If the O subs, so can the D. I get that he may not be able to play every down, but a Gamble/Adams combo could make a big difference inside. Inside is where we need to be good anyway. Control the inside and you will control the outside.

 

[Frenchise]

I don't get the "Adams is too out of shape to play a series" theory. If the O subs, so can the D. I get that he may not be able to play every down, but a Gamble/Adams combo could make a big difference inside. Inside is where we need to be good anyway. Control the inside and you will control the outside.

The opposing offense will simply not sub and after 5 plays he's no longer a brick wall- he's on skates.

Get it now?

 

[Boomergump]

I don't think we are completely bereft of talent and I do think we can play a lot better than we are. Quite possibly we could try and do some things differently for better results. The biggest point I am trying to make is that we are limited in some ways on defense and have some weaknesses. We need to play to our strengths and avoid bad match ups as much as possible. I am frustrated. You are all frustrated. The coaches are frustrated and so are the players, I'm sure. When I say "dealt a bad hand" it may be a bad choice of words. What I mean is we don't have a ton of flexibility in what we can do. If you see something obvious, then you are seeing something I don't, which is fine BTW. I'm not the worlds greatest expert on defensive football. I have racked my brain trying to think of what we could do schematically that would work better and I just can't.

In general, I agree with the idea that Adams could help us stabilize things in the middle. Maybe he can't play a long series without getting gassed. I have no idea. But at least his presence would potentially take something away while he is in. At this point, we need to just take something away, anything, if possible.

 

[Frenchise]

I don't think we are completely bereft of talent and I do think we can play a lot better than we are. Quite possibly we could try and do some things differently for better results. The biggest point I am trying to make is that we are limited in some ways on defense and have some weaknesses. We need to play to our strengths and avoid bad match ups as much as possible. I am frustrated. You are all frustrated. The coaches are frustrated and so are the players, I'm sure. When I say "dealt a bad hand" it may be a bad choice of words. What I mean is we don't have a ton of flexibility in what we can do. If you see something obvious, then you are seeing something I don't, which is fine BTW. I'm not the worlds greatest expert on defensive football. I have racked my brain trying to think of what we could do schematically that would work better and I just can't.

In general, I agree with the idea that Adams could help us stabilize things in the middle. Maybe he can't play a long series without getting gassed. I have no idea. But at least his presence would potentially take something away while he is in. At this point, we need to just take something away, anything, if possible.

We can talk about fixing the scheme when the players actually consistently execute the scheme.

I've seen mass confusion on the defense way too often. What is causing that??