Pointer
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Yes I meant many of us here.
Dave Patenaude's Offense
- Thread starter Kennethshannon20
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Skeptic
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I am always wary of absolutes. "We all knew." "Everybody." "It was clear to everybody." And then there is the "No one". You know this how? I would bet the ranch at least one person in America who "works in the business" -- an odd way to acknowledge the real role of college football -- thought Tech would win at least six. Just a look at the schedule would encourage that. We won three, lost to the Citadel which cringe-worthy to the regime used the exact offense it was hired to replace, and now let's just move on, plan for the worst and hope for the best. I think we might win five, hope we win eight ... and look north to Chapel Hill, which is building to a Coastal Division powerhouse. Mack Brown now has the No. 4 recruiting class for 2021, with four 4-stars already. In short we now have to be exponentially better just to hold our own in the division. More worrying, faced with similar problems in 2019, Brown and UNC won seven games and went bowling. Except for one ill-timed timeout against Clemson's Venables, called to set up a two-point try to win late, but used by Venables to roll mentally through Brown's possible calls -- he got it right -- would have knocked Swinney and Clemson out of NC contention. Make it a 007 film: Better Is Not Enough.
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I am not sure CDP is intended to be transitional. CGC hired him at Temple without the need for a "transitional" OC. Maybe, just maybe, CGC believes he is the man to rebuild the offense and he just needs a little more time...
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We can knock the use of absolutes, and I generally agree with you there, but in reality, if there was a paid prognosticator picking GT to win 6 or more last year I didn't see it. I DID see a ton of griping on these boards from our fans who were insulted that the vast majority of the predictions were to win 3-4 games max
Skeptic
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Well, suddenly we find that by winning three GT met expectations. Nah. We just moved the goal posts. I am reminded of Mel Brooks as Moses, with his "15, 15 ...a stone tablet crashes .. 10! 10 Commandments!" (It is much funnier on film I admit.) I am not a paid predictor but I thought we should have won six. Regardless, with all the criticism of the ACC despite Clemson's success, the league is getting better and have to step up if we want to seriously compete. And we don't have seven years for that.
TheFlyest
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You a biased fan but no media pundit predicted that, matter of fact GT was predicated to finish last. Even the beat writers said the first year would be brutal.
Pointer
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At the end of the day, media pundits are just fans anyway. Don't let them fool you into thinking they are anything more than that.
Skeptic
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Matter of fact, that is what a "fan" is. Guilty. And also guilty that I am too lazy to even attempt any research into your assertions, but a fading memory recalls some optimism that this "new", "pro style" offense would win short and long-term. I don't recall such despair as you describe at all. Skepticism, yes, but no black hole projections.
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To be fair, I never moved goal posts. I predicted 4 wins. (I freely admit I expected to beat the Citadel.) The contention was that almost every predictor this past season was right. The main arguments against the prediction was that GT had for the last decade been defying predictions. I would stipulate that it was probably a LOT harder for the prognosticators to get a feel for how good CPJs offenses were ahead of time. (2014 was a prime example) Now that we are running a more conventional offense, it's a LOT easier for the press to size up our potential.
So yes, by winning three games GT met the expectations of almost every media outlet that predicts college football. Are those GT expectations? I don't think you'll find a coach alive who will ADMIT that, but I am pretty sure CGC knew what he was walking into here.
As to your assertions on the rest of the ACC, I generally agree. UNC will be a force soon if they keep recruiting like they are. FSU and Miami will eventually put it all back together. Duke has a great coach who isn't going anywhere else. VT shouldn't be counted out either.
I would disagree on the 7 years part. First, I don't see it taking 7 years to field winning teams. I believe we should be winning routinely again by year 4 at the latest, and it's possible, though not probable, that we could work our way into a bowl game this year. Regardless, whether it takes 3, 4, 7, or even 10 years doesn't matter. We have to work the process and not take shortcuts to meet arbitrary deadlines.
In 2015, when everyone was hot to fire CPJ, I stated that changing offenses would mean a lost decade of GT football, which was the main reason I initially opposed hiring him in 2008. I stated then that turning over a roster and building the necessary depth would take 7-8 years.
I no longer believe this to be the case. The loosening of transfer restrictions and the almost free agent like movement of NCAA football players has rearranged the paradigm. I now believe CGC can build a team built to compete in 10 of our 12 games in 3-4 years. I think it will take longer to get us to Clemson/uga competitiveness, but that was always going to be the case.
So, TLDR version: It's not time to worry yet...
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I can promise you that almost every projection last year was for 3-4 wins. The more optimistic ones had 5...
SteamWhistle
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Why do yall waste time arguing with people who expected more then 3-4 wins last season? If they couldn’t see that don’t you think they are already clueless? I used to do it all the time, but I realized one day that there’s no point. The Paul Johnson fanboys are gonna be fanboys no matter what. They will hold Collins to standards set by Paul, which apparently can’t excuse a single losing season, even though Paul had 4 while he was here.
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Why? Because they are real people and fellow fans of our program. I was a CPJ fanboy and I predicted 4 wins. Your stereotyping only furthers the divide in a fan base that needs more unity and less fracturing.
Also, CPJ only had 3 losing seasons, but, facts...
WreckinGT
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Our team was historically bad last year, especially on offense. If your team is historically bad then you are going to have some arguments. If you don't have arguments then the fan base has basically quit caring. Ill let you choose which you prefer.
cyclejacket
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Get real man, what if that happens and we are wearing blue. This thread will look like a kindergarten discussion.
wesgt123
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But kindergarteners get along better than grown men for the most part
SteamWhistle
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Sorry, 4 seasons without a winning record. Which is almost the same thing as 4 losing seasons but I guess it makes it better. Temple and DP averaged 34 a game in 2018, the Spread Option mastermind averaged 33 in the same year. @WreckinGT You ever think that maybe part of the reason we were Historically bad on offense is because we were Historically bad at recruiting? Last years seniors were the 60th ranked recruiting class, and what makes it worse is half of the class wasn’t even on the team.
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Your continued denigration of the CPJ legacy is just as deplorable as the "fan boys" that won't give CGC a chance. There are two sides causing all the problems for those of us fans who want to move forward. You're on the far end of one of them.
SteamWhistle
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No denigrating here, my first game ever at BDS as an 8 year old was CPJ first game as coach. Grew up with Paul and he was all I knew in terms of GT football. Heck I Loved Paul, but it was time, maybe your definition of denigrating him is me being realistic and looking at his whole career and his impact on the program and not just his 2 best seasons. I do the same to him as many do to Collins and look at the stats and W/L not just the magic moments. He did great things, but it’s not sensible to act like Paul was the greatest of all time and it’s not fair to think I’m not a fan or don’t like him because I don’t believe him to be.
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For someone who doesn't claim denigration, you certainly miss no opportunities to point out every perceived flaw he had. My greater point still stands. I was initially opposed to CPJs hiring. I was initially not a fan of CGC, as I wanted Tony Elliott. Either way, I support any GT coach past or present with one exception. That includes Chan. Blaming every perceived slight against CGC as an organized attack from CPJ fanboys isn't helping. Heck, half the people pitching a fit about CDP were guys who were/are big on CGC, and half those defending him, like myself, were CPJ fans.