Damon Stoudamire

[leatherneckjacket]

Yea, right side.

Another example of how Best may be the most underrated and underrappreciated point guard we have had at Tech. Also, no Tony Akins?

 

[ESPNjacket]

Another example of how Best may be the most underrated and underrappreciated point guard we have had at Tech. Also, no Tony Akins?

No Drew Barry (GT all-time assist leader)?

They did run out of real estate.

 

[kg01]

No Drew Barry (GT all-time assist leader)?

They did run out of real estate.

Was thinking the same. I bet Jon Barry is somewhere being cantankerous about Drew's omission.

 

[lv20gt]

I guess I'm alone in thinking there are probably too many people on that demographic already.

 

[kg01]

 

[forensicbuzz]

Was thinking the same. I bet Jon Barry is somewhere being cantankerous about Drew's omission.

Meh,both were 2-guards

 

[ESPNjacket]

Meh,both were 2-guards

Drew was a point guard. The 1996 team was a disappointment until Cremins moved Barry to the point and Marbury to the shooting guard after the loss to Mt. St. Mary's.

Jon was clearly a shooting guard.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Drew was a point guard. The 1996 team was a disappointment until Cremins moved Barry to the point and Marbury to the shooting guard after the loss to Mt. St. Mary's.

Jon was clearly a shooting guard.

Okay, if you want to put Drew on the poster then you have to take Stephon and Travis off. He played with Travis 92-95 and Stephon in 96. He was the "2-guard" on those teams, although he was the best passer on every team he played on. The game DID NOT go through him.

While I agree, he was a pass-first guard, not a shooting guard, he did not run point most of his career at Tech. Still one of my favorite players. His passing was incredible.

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

Okay, if you want to put Drew on the poster then you have to take Stephon and Travis off. He played with Travis 92-95 and Stephon in 96. He was the "2-guard" on those teams, although he was the best passer on every team he played on. The game DID NOT go through him.

While I agree, he was a pass-first guard, not a shooting guard, he did not run point most of his career at Tech. Still one of my favorite players. His passing was incredible.

No, you don't.

 

[Techster]

The Barry brothers were fun to watch. They had ZERO regard for their bodies and would throw their bodies into the scorer's table (which happened) just to get a loose ball. I never thought Jon was an NBA caliber player, but the guy was a 1st round pick and played for 15 years in the NBA. This is why I would suck being an NBA scout.

That was such a fun era for GT basketball.

 

[kg01]

Blah, blah, blah .... This is why I would suck being an NBA scout....

 

[ESPNjacket]

Okay, if you want to put Drew on the poster then you have to take Stephon and Travis off. He played with Travis 92-95 and Stephon in 96. He was the "2-guard" on those teams, although he was the best passer on every team he played on. The game DID NOT go through him.

While I agree, he was a pass-first guard, not a shooting guard, he did not run point most of his career at Tech. Still one of my favorite players. His passing was incredible.

No, you wouldn't have to do that. There can be more than one point guard on a roster.

The obvious one to take off is Shumpert, who really was a 3 in the modern game.

 

[forensicbuzz]

No, you wouldn't have to do that. There can be more than one point guard on a roster.

The obvious one to take off is Shumpert, who really was a 3 in the modern game.

Maybe it’s that Drew only had a cup of coffee in the NBA whereas the rest of the poster had pretty prolonged professional careers in the NBA.

Don’t take this as taking anything away from Drew. As I stated earlier, I loved what he brought to the table.

What position did Iman play in the NBA?

 

[dtm1997]

Maybe it’s that Drew only had a cup of coffee in the NBA whereas the rest of the poster had pretty prolonged professional careers in the NBA.

Don’t take this as taking anything away from Drew. As I stated earlier, I loved what he brought to the table.

What position did Iman play in the NBA?

Shump was a defensive focused wing.

 

[ESPNjacket]

Maybe it’s that Drew only had a cup of coffee in the NBA whereas the rest of the poster had pretty prolonged professional careers in the NBA.

Don’t take this as taking anything away from Drew. As I stated earlier, I loved what he brought to the table.

What position did Iman play in the NBA?

The poster is fine. They had their own purposes in mind for that.

Drew and Jon had different skills. Jon was a scorer and defender while Drew was a point guard. I get the propensity to lump them together since they are brothers and played in the same time period.

What else can we talk about in May? The season is a long way away.

 

[slugboy]

The poster is fine. They had their own purposes in mind for that.

Drew and Jon had different skills. Jon was a scorer and defender while Drew was a point guard. I get the propensity to lump them together since they are brothers and played in the same time period.

What else can we talk about in May? The season is a long way away.

I’d love a breakdown of how Stoudamire ran offense and defense at Pacific. While I’d live to see us look like the Celtics, I think that’s a high bar to clear.

ETA: I believe your question was rhetorical, but I get so much more out of the posts where someone writes up the nuances of a 5 out offense than I do from the speculation about internal thought processes of one player

 

[ESPNjacket]

I’d love a breakdown of how Stoudamire ran offense and defense at Pacific. While I’d live to see us look like the Celtics, I think that’s a high bar to clear.

ETA: I believe your question was rhetorical, but I get so much more out of the posts where someone writes up the nuances of a 5 out offense than I do from the speculation about internal thought processes of one player

Agreed.

 

[YlJacket]

I’d love a breakdown of how Stoudamire ran offense and defense at Pacific. While I’d live to see us look like the Celtics, I think that’s a high bar to clear.

ETA: I believe your question was rhetorical, but I get so much more out of the posts where someone writes up the nuances of a 5 out offense than I do from the speculation about internal thought processes of one player

I don't know Pacific but I'll take a shot at the Celtics.

They are all in on next gen stats using spacing and talent to focus the offense almost exclusively on 3 point shots or dribble drive attack the rim. You can see that in their shot chart from Game 7 Yes they will shoot some mid range shots but that is generally at the end of the clock or when they find the lane crowded and no kick out. IMO Brown and Smart shoot most of the mid range. That is the 20K foot view but I think the important view is to look how they run with and without Horford on the court.

Horford is a 40+% 3 point shooter. Highest on the team I think. With him they generally park him in the corner as a stretch 5 and pull the opposing 5 out of the paint simply on the threat of his shot. He will drive the close out but the key element is the threat of the 3 causes the lane to generally be clear or he is open for a kick out. So they run almost exclusively a 5 out set with Horford in the corner and other guys setting picks to get either movement or matchups that they exploit. Tatum (or Brown) is more of a point forward in this offense and they really don't run a PG focused set. I won't go into any specific sets as we don't have a Horford and as such won't be mimicing the Celtics 5 out look - at least not immediately.

For next year it is more instructive IMHO to look at the Celtics when they have Robert Williams in the game. 6'9" 230 lb high energy/high motor who plays a lot like a bigger even more athletic Franklin. Zero 3 point shots for the year and an average of 8 PPG on 71% shooting. Definition of a player you don't run a play for. Also only shot 61% from the FT line so no idea why he ever saw the court What you see with him looks a whole lot like the 4 out we ran with Franklin at the end of the year after we dumped the modified princeton - but with a bit more emphasis on creating mismatches especially in secondary transition. A lot more options than this but conceptually Williams will look to set an early high (past the top of the key) ball screen to see if he can either force a switch or beat his defender on a rim run. He generally then goes to the dunker spot while the perimeter 4 run their action looking for a dump off. He can come back for a second ball screen on occasion. I don't recall seeing him set a lot of off ball screens. Could be wrong there. He definitely is not a facilitator and rarely gets the ball except at the rim.

While I have focused on the 5 as I think that is what will be the limiting/controlling aspect of the offense, the key to the Celtics is obviously the talent of Tatum and Brown. Both of those guys can simply beat their guy off the dribble and get a shot pretty much whenever they want. So the Boston offense IMHO isn't so much focused on getting them open clean looks off of lots of off ball movement and screens instead is focused more on generating switches on these guys till they get the matchup they want and can exploit. Then it becomes dribble drive and lay off to the dunker or kick out with 2 rotation passes to an open 3 - but the key is the dribble drive. It is conceptually different than say the Golden State offense which is much more on off ball movement and screening but also has a Draymont Green who can facilitate from the mid post.

I fully expect us to go with one big and 4 perimeter players and look a lot like Boston with Williams. A lot of focus on causing switches and mismatches - One of the things I think we were bad at last year. I will be really interested to see what wrinkles he puts in as we obviously don't have talents like Tatum and Brown and our guys will need some help to get into position for shots or to create dribble drive opportunities. That will be the chess game for him.

 

[Root4GT]

I don't know Pacific but I'll take a shot at the Celtics.

They are all in on next gen stats using spacing and talent to focus the offense almost exclusively on 3 point shots or dribble drive attack the rim. You can see that in their shot chart from Game 7 Yes they will shoot some mid range shots but that is generally at the end of the clock or when they find the lane crowded and no kick out. IMO Brown and Smart shoot most of the mid range. That is the 20K foot view but I think the important view is to look how they run with and without Horford on the court.

Horford is a 40+% 3 point shooter. Highest on the team I think. With him they generally park him in the corner as a stretch 5 and pull the opposing 5 out of the paint simply on the threat of his shot. He will drive the close out but the key element is the threat of the 3 causes the lane to generally be clear or he is open for a kick out. So they run almost exclusively a 5 out set with Horford in the corner and other guys setting picks to get either movement or matchups that they exploit. Tatum (or Brown) is more of a point forward in this offense and they really don't run a PG focused set. I won't go into any specific sets as we don't have a Horford and as such won't be mimicing the Celtics 5 out look - at least not immediately.

For next year it is more instructive IMHO to look at the Celtics when they have Robert Williams in the game. 6'9" 230 lb high energy/high motor who plays a lot like a bigger even more athletic Franklin. Zero 3 point shots for the year and an average of 8 PPG on 71% shooting. Definition of a player you don't run a play for. Also only shot 61% from the FT line so no idea why he ever saw the court What you see with him looks a whole lot like the 4 out we ran with Franklin at the end of the year after we dumped the modified princeton - but with a bit more emphasis on creating mismatches especially in secondary transition. A lot more options than this but conceptually Williams will look to set an early high (past the top of the key) ball screen to see if he can either force a switch or beat his defender on a rim run. He generally then goes to the dunker spot while the perimeter 4 run their action looking for a dump off. He can come back for a second ball screen on occasion. I don't recall seeing him set a lot of off ball screens. Could be wrong there. He definitely is not a facilitator and rarely gets the ball except at the rim.

While I have focused on the 5 as I think that is what will be the limiting/controlling aspect of the offense, the key to the Celtics is obviously the talent of Tatum and Brown. Both of those guys can simply beat their guy off the dribble and get a shot pretty much whenever they want. So the Boston offense IMHO isn't so much focused on getting them open clean looks off of lots of off ball movement and screens instead is focused more on generating switches on these guys till they get the matchup they want and can exploit. Then it becomes dribble drive and lay off to the dunker or kick out with 2 rotation passes to an open 3 - but the key is the dribble drive. It is conceptually different than say the Golden State offense which is much more on off ball movement and screening but also has a Draymont Green who can facilitate from the mid post.

I fully expect us to go with one big and 4 perimeter players and look a lot like Boston with Williams. A lot of focus on causing switches and mismatches - One of the things I think we were bad at last year. I will be really interested to see what wrinkles he puts in as we obviously don't have talents like Tatum and Brown and our guys will need some help to get into position for shots or to create dribble drive opportunities. That will be the chess game for him.

I assume you comment on Williams was in jest. The Celtics don’t beat the 76ers without his significant contributions. He anchors their defense. Without him on defense they often get torched.

 

[YlJacket]

I assume you comment on Williams was in jest. The Celtics don’t beat the 76ers without his significant contributions. He anchors their defense. Without him on defense they often get torched.

Response to the commentary on free throw shooting averages in other threads. This was an offensive zone look only. Williams is a more traditional defender though still slightly undersized - huge motor and energy on the boards. However, Horford is actually a better defender than given credit for. He was pretty effective against Embid.

I expect whomever plays 5 for us gets the job based more on defense than offense.