Coronavirus Thread

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Well, since it's supposedly a government that's by, for, and of the people, and since it is a pandemic, I can see it even if I personally don't always agree with all of its decisions. In principle, I don't see anything that's so disturbing here. The commissioners in the town I live in made mostly reasonable decisions along these lines, IMO.

I would bet they were guidelines, and not mandates.

 

[bobongo]

I would bet they were guidelines, and not mandates.

No, they were mandates. Any business that violated the orders could be cited.

 

[gthxxxx]

They often do. The people who wrote the Constitution wanted it that way. They knew that what they put together would have to adapt to new circumstances. Wish they had foreseen more of them, however.

I can't say I know what the Constitution authors wanted, but the language to me seems to have emphasized the differentiation between malleable processes and ironclad statements.

[Edit: Future justices and their decisions however... e.g. the Jacobson case where it seemed rather hypercritical to say that "we do not perceive that this legislation has invaded any right secured by the Federal Constitution" right after "we are unwilling to hold it to be' an element in the liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States that one person, or a minority of persons, residing in any community and enjoying the benefits of its local government, should have the power thus to dominate the majority when supported in their action by the authority of the State"]

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

No, they were mandates. Any business that violated the orders could be cited.

It has not been like that where I live.

 

[bobongo]

I can't say I know what the Constitution authors wanted, but the language to me seems to have emphasized the differentiation between malleable processes and ironclad statements.

...which is why it's lasted so long.

 

[gthxxxx]

...which is why it's lasted so long.

Eh, I have my own thoughts on the main reasons that lead "it" to last so long, and the content is not a heavy factor. Also, depending on what you mean by "it", some would argue "it" hasn't. However, that's getting more into philosophical theory crafting and away from the covid topic.

 

[684Bee]

I wonder how many remember that in the midst of the deadly Hong Kong Flu pandemic of the late 60s, Woodstock was still held.

https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/

Two key lines from the article:
"Which raises the question: why was this different? We will be trying to figure this one out for decades."
"The contrast between 1968 and 2020 couldn’t be more striking. They were smart. We are idiots. Or at least our governments are."

Before my time. Does anyone remember this? Killed 100,000 Americans, but we didn’t shut anything down and life pretty much went on.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Before my time. Does anyone remember this? Killed 100,000 Americans, but we didn’t shut anything down and life pretty much went on.

I was 25 the year of Woodstock and remember that well. I also remember the Hong Kong Flu, but, in spite of 100,000 Americans dying from it, life went on. It didn't affect a thing I did. And there were definitely no shutdowns and no panic. I just don't see any reason why the same can't happen today.

 

[684Bee]

I was 25 the year of Woodstock and remember that well. I also remember the Hong Kong Flu, but, in spite of 100,000 Americans dying from it, life went on. It didn't affect a thing I did. And there were definitely no shutdowns and no panic. I just don't see any reason why the same can't happen today.

Sensational 24/7 media is the main reason it’s different.

 

[JacketOff]

I was 25 the year of Woodstock and remember that well. I also remember the Hong Kong Flu, but, in spite of 100,000 Americans dying from it, life went on. It didn't affect a thing I did. And there were definitely no shutdowns and no panic. I just don't see any reason why the same can't happen today.

What is an acceptable number of Americans that can die without means for any control? 200,000? 500,000? 1 million? 2.5 million? Serious question. Sweden has stayed pretty much business as usual, and their deaths per million residents is 8th highest in the world. The U.S. is 10th. Sweden’s deaths per million are over 3 times the next highest Nordic country’s in Denmark, and over 6.5 times higher than the 3rd highest in Norway. Sweden isn’t exactly a tourism hotbed either. It’s reasonable to assume had the United States, or most other Western nations taken Sweden’s path, the deaths would be exponentially worse, simply because more people would be coming and going to different places around the countries. If the U.S. were to take a much less severe approach to shutdowns, large gathering events would still be the first things to go. That includes sports and concerts.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I was 25 the year of Woodstock and remember that well. I also remember the Hong Kong Flu, but, in spite of 100,000 Americans dying from it, life went on. It didn't affect a thing I did. And there were definitely no shutdowns and no panic. I just don't see any reason why the same can't happen today.

LBJ and his Great Society programs have morphed into a mindset among a large percentage of the American population that government owes you an outcome not an opportunity. Here we sit expecting government to do everything for us and finding they really are not competent at much.

 

[awbuzz]

This new Reuters/IPSOS poll has interesting numbers concerning people showing up at sporting events, concerts, movies, etc.
(Note that the sporting questions were linked to professional sports so you have to decide how much they would apply to college sports).
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ronavirus-vaccine-reuters-ipsos-idUSKCN22A2AK

Only about four in 10 who follow sports avidly and go to arts and entertainment venues and amusement parks said they would do so again if they reopened before a vaccine was available, the poll found.

Another four in 10 said they were willing to wait, even if it takes more than a year to develop a vaccine.

The rest said they either “don’t know” what to do or may never attend those events again.

Among those who have attended a professional sporting event in the past year, 42% said they would return whenever it reopens to the public and 39% said they would rather wait for a vaccine, even if that means waiting more than a year.

About 59% of sports fans agreed that before a vaccine is available, professional sports leagues should hold games with no in-person fans, while 33% disagreed.

The poll showed that only 27% of those questioned would go to a movie theater, concert or live theater performance when venues reopen, underscoring the hurdles faced by the entertainment industry as it tries to get back on its feet.

Thirty-two percent said they would wait for a vaccine before going back to the movies, theater or concerts.

In all, 55% of Americans said those events should not resume before a vaccine is available.

Enthusiasm for amusement and theme parks was even bleaker. Fifty-nine percent of respondents said they should not reopen until a vaccine is available. Only 20% said they would visit a theme park when they reopen.

If we wait for a vaccine we may never have sports again.
Example, We don't have a vaccine for HIV virus. We don't have a vaccine for many viruses yet we proceed with life.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Sensational 24/7 media is the main reason it’s different.

Sensationalized would be a better word

 

[GT_EE78]

> this leaked dossier may be why AU is calling for investigation which lead CCP to threaten Australia with economic sanctions
>the aussie article is the bottom link.It has an excellent timeline (near the bottom)of communist actions.Fox is more of a summary
>the wet market communist propaganda seems well debunked,guess they moved on to blame the USA
> if they thought there was a chance to exonerate their virology lab they would leap on it,instead they bleached it without collecting samples.
exerpts and links are below:
Leaked Western intel dossier reveals how China deceived the world about coronavirus
China intentionally hid or destroyed evidence of the coronavirus outbreak, leading to the loss of tens of thousands of lives around the world
The 15-page document from the intelligence agencies of the U.S., Canada, the U.K., Australia and New Zealand, was obtained by Australia's Saturday Telegraph newspaper and states that China's secrecy amounted to an “assault on international transparency." includes an initial denial by China that the virus could be transmitted between humans, the silencing or "disappearing" of doctors who tried to speak up, the destruction of evidence in laboratories and refusal to provide live samples to international scientists working on a vaccine.
Perhaps most damningly, the dossier states that Chinese authorities denied that the virus could be spread between humans until Jan. 20, "despite evidence of human-human transmission from early December."The file is similarly unsparing about the World Health Organization (WHO), stating that it toed the Chinese line about human-to-human transmission despite the fact that "officials in Taiwan raised concerns as early as December 31, as did experts in Hong Kong on January 4.” https://www.foxnews.com/world/new-d...-for-destroying-evidence-of-covid-19-outbreak
Dossier lays out case against China bat virus program
The Australian government trained and funded a team of Chinese scientists who belong to a laboratory which went on to genetically modify deadly coronaviruses that could be transmitted from bats to humans and had no cure, and is not the subject of a probe into the origins of COVID-19.Chinese scientists had been conducting research into bat viruses at the CSIRO in Geelong, Victoria, in jointly funded projects between the Australian and Chinese governments.
The US withdrew funding from controversial experiments that make pathogens more potent or likely to spread dangerous viruses in October 2014, concerned it could lead to a global pandemic. Despite the concerns, the CSIRO continued to partner and fund research with the Wuhan Institute of Virology.A ‘‘Sensitive but Unclassified’’ cable, dated January 19, 2018, obtained by The Washington Post, revealed that US embassy scientists visited the laboratory and sent warnings back to Washington about inadequate safety practices as it conducted research on coronaviruses from bats.
the US’s top spy agency confirmed on the record for the first time yesterday that the US intelligence committee is investigating whether COVID-19 was the result of an accident at a Wuhan laboratory.
Throughout February, Beijing presses the US, Italy, India, Australia, Southeast Asian neighbours and others not to protect themselves via travel restrictions, even as the PRC imposes severe restrictions at home.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/c...m/news-story/55add857058731c9c71c0e96ad17da60

 

[LibertyTurns]

@GT_EE78 The China deniers continue to ignore the facts.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Newly revealed news story that is obviously mostly ignored --- the AZ man who supposedly died from taking a commercial product containing chloroquine, was actually murdered by his abusive wife, who spiked a drink with the substance. Turns out that the victim is actually a very well educated engineer and would have never done anything as stupid as that.

 

[GT_EE78]

Newly revealed news story that is obviously mostly ignored --- the AZ man who supposedly died from taking a commercial product containing chloroquine, was actually murdered by his abusive wife, who spiked a drink with the substance. Turns out that the victim is actually a very well educated engineer and would have never done anything as stupid as that.

Media will still find a way to blame you know who ,come hell or fish tank water.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

What is an acceptable number of Americans that can die without means for any control? 200,000? 500,000? 1 million? 2.5 million? Serious question. Sweden has stayed pretty much business as usual, and their deaths per million residents is 8th highest in the world. The U.S. is 10th. Sweden’s deaths per million are over 3 times the next highest Nordic country’s in Denmark, and over 6.5 times higher than the 3rd highest in Norway. Sweden isn’t exactly a tourism hotbed either. It’s reasonable to assume had the United States, or most other Western nations taken Sweden’s path, the deaths would be exponentially worse, simply because more people would be coming and going to different places around the countries. If the U.S. were to take a much less severe approach to shutdowns, large gathering events would still be the first things to go. That includes sports and concerts.

Well the good news is we know who is at risk. Nursing homes, older people, severely obese, etc. if those people are worried for their health, they can continue to isolate as long as they wish. But the rest of America should get moving again now that we know the risk is much lower than like 50 other things.

I don’t trust very many countries’ numbers. Testing is terrible in other countries. There is a massive undercounting of deaths. Do we really think 33% of all cases worldwide are in the United States when we are 5% of the total population? No way. I think we have to do our own thing based on our own data.

 

[Milwaukee]

I want everyone to know that you should be embarrassed to be an American citizen right now. We can’t buy a rug at HomeGoods and can’t hit a ball on a driving range, but we can roll through an Arby’s drive-thru. Wake up and realize this is a farce, I’m laughing one minute and frustrated the next.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

I want everyone to know that you should be embarrassed to be an American citizen right now. We can’t buy a rug at HomeGoods and can’t hit a ball on a driving range, but we can roll through an Arby’s drive-thru. Wake up and realize this is a farce, I’m laughing one minute and frustrated the next.

I am not embarrassed to be an American; I am angry that the people responsible for those kinds of decisions have the gall to call themselves Americans and belittle the REAL Americans like me and you.