Coronavirus Thread

[684Bee]

Big article in today's WSJ about a restaurant in Oregon who is calling workers to come back to work, and they are turning down the work because they are earning more on Unemployment. They are being paid $15/hour plus tips, but earning more by staying unemployed.

React as you will. It is not a "normal situation".

This is shocking to no one that is older than pre-school age. It's a rational choice that is being made by these people. If you incentivize sitting at home and not working, that's what you will get.

 

[sidewalkGTfan]

Then...don't participate? I can't imagine universities penalizing players who feel that way...

So they are allowed to stay on scholly but don't play, even though they are completely healthy?

 

[RonJohn]

Big article in today's WSJ about a restaurant in Oregon who is calling workers to come back to work, and they are turning down the work because they are earning more on Unemployment. They are being paid $15/hour plus tips, but earning more by staying unemployed.

React as you will. It is not a "normal situation".

That is because of the $600 per week the federal government is paying for unemployment. Unemployment is usually based on a percentage of average weekly pay for a time period. If a high school kid is laid off of a part time job in which they made $100 per week, they will not be getting over $650 per week from unemployment. That is ridiculous, but there wasn't time to work out and then negotiate a reasonable plan.

 

[sidewalkGTfan]

You're right, it has been viewed differently. It's made some people lose their ability to think rationally. They just emotionally react, and I've seen some people suggest that the standard of safety is to guarantee a 0% chance of getting C19. That's just ridiculous.

Completely agree as well. I am one of the ones that believe there's been more "over reaction" to this corona stuff, but I've also read enough internet and social media to believe that are real portion of society, probably including college athletes and their families, aren't gonna wanna play sports in the fall if the current situation remains the same.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

HA HA! I regularly admit to my being confounded. For example, yesterday we set an all time new high in cases (40k versus old record of 34k) despite being in week 5 of a shutdown. While the overall test volume trend continues to creep upwards, it really hasn't changed in 3 weeks.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-covid-19-tests-per-day

I thought I would dig into it and see why it was so much larger.
1. Massachusetts did not report any cases the day before and then reported their highest day total ever of 3K cases
2. It looks like a number of states are having record highs or close to it. A few examples
a. New Jersey at 3.7K,
b. Virginia just recorded their highest number of new cases at 640.
c. California at 1.8K
d. Illinois with one of its highest at 1,500
3. There is a new category now. Us Military. They added 5,300 new cases yesterday.

Now what is good about yesterday is NY only added 5,300 new cases. Its lowest new cases since march 25. Their high days were over 10,000

So basically things dont look nearly as bad as they do just looking at new cases. I am sure the military did not suddenly have 5.3K new cases yesterday. They just reported them. Also, I would remove half of Massachusetts and put it in the day before

 

[MWBATL]

So they are allowed to stay on scholly but don't play, even though they are completely healthy?

My guess is that no university would force that issue for fear of lawsuits...

 

[WreckinGT]

Specific to football... since its been played we've been willing to accept the violence of the game and its associated risks. The long-term health effects for some injuries are serious. We accept the risk... we attempt to make the game as safe as possible for the participants as we learn more.... and they play. I HOPE.. a contagious virus will not be treated any differently... potential lawsuits and all. Why should it?

...and that applies to everything we do daily as well. Understand the risks... mitigate them... and carry on.

Just a scenario here, two days before the third game of the season a player tests positive for Covid-19. We test his teammates and find 3 of them have also tested positive. What do you? Do you quarantine the entire team and cancel their upcoming game? Only quarantine the positive players? Quarantine nobody? What about the team they were rubbing against the week before? Do we test and quarantine them as well and cancel their game? If the upcoming game isn't cancelled, can the other team choose not to play without penalty? Would you want to play against a team that had a coronavirus outbreak confirmed two days before?

 

[684Bee]

Just a scenario here, two days before the third game of the season a player tests positive for Covid-19. We test his teammates and find 3 of them have also tested positive. What do you? Do you quarantine the entire team and cancel their upcoming game? Only quarantine the positive players? Quarantine nobody? What about the team they were rubbing against the week before? Do we test and quarantine them as well and cancel their game? If the upcoming game isn't cancelled, can the other team choose not to play without penalty? Would you want to play against a team that had a coronavirus outbreak confirmed two days before?

Can we have people that want to participate sign a waiver, including both players who play and fans who want to be in the stands?

 

[WreckinGT]

Can we have people that want to participate sign a waiver, including both players who play and fans who want to be in the stands?

You can sign whatever you want. Nobody is going to agree to play a team that had an outbreak of a highly contagious virus two days before. That isn't going to be a decision for the players or coaches. University Presidents would never let that happen.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

 

[Techster]

Can we have people that want to participate sign a waiver, including both players who play and fans who want to be in the stands?

Here's the issue:

What if not enough players are willing to sign the waiver? Who's going to play the games?

You can threaten them if they don't sign the waiver and play then they have their scholarships revoked, but then you risk putting their life on the line through coercion. Good luck with that in court, and good luck to the school and the NCAA with legal damages.

This is a very complex situation with a LOT of moving parts. It's not black and white. The NCAA and the schools forcing kids to sign would be absolutely destroyed in the press...then in court.

 

[684Bee]

Here's the issue:

What if not enough players are willing to sign the waiver? Who's going to play the games?

You can threaten them if they don't sign the waiver and play then they have their scholarships revoked, but then you risk putting their life on the line through coercion. Good luck with that in court, and good luck to the school and the NCAA with legal damages.

This is a very complex situation with a LOT of moving parts. It's not black and white. The NCAA and the schools forcing kids to sign would be absolutely destroyed in the press...then in court.

Who said anything about coercion? It would be that individual's choice.

I have no idea if enough players would want to play or not. Just throwing this out there as a possible way we can move forward in this environment.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Here's the issue:

What if not enough players are willing to sign the waiver? Who's going to play the games?

You can threaten them if they don't sign the waiver and play then they have their scholarships revoked, but then you risk putting their life on the line through coercion. Good luck with that in court, and good luck to the school and the NCAA with legal damages.

Well, given that fit people their age are not at risk of serious health issues related to COVID-19, that's a bit of hyberbole. We've had Flu outbreaks in the locker room before, as have other teams. Those players stay away and typically don't play until they are better. But you do make a good point, lawyers would ruin this just like they ruin pretty much everything else they touch. And its the threat of that and not health issues that will probably ensure sports like football aren't played. Even if you tested every player twice a week and then quarantined/isolated any that test positive, I still think school and conference leadership would be fearful of all the litigation potential.

 

[Techster]

Who said anything about coercion? It would be that individual's choice.

I have no idea if enough players would want to play or not. Just throwing this out there as a possible way we can move forward in this environment.

I'm just telling you the possible scenarios that will play out. Kids either want to play or they don't. The only way to force them is to threaten if they don't play you pull their scholarship...that's coercion. I doubt any school or the NCAA is dumb enough to let that happen because the monetary damages could be crippling, not to mention the PR disaster...but some coaches I wouldn't be shocked.

The bigger point is the waiver idea wouldn't get too far.

 

[684Bee]

Well, given that fit people their age are not at risk of serious health issues related to COVID-19, that's a bit of hyberbole. We've had Flu outbreaks in the locker room before, as have other teams. Those players stay away and typically don't play until they are better. But you do make a good point, lawyers would ruin this just like they ruin pretty much everything else they touch. And its the threat of that and not health issues that will probably ensure sports like football aren't played. Even if you tested every player twice a week and then quarantined/isolated any that test positive, I still think school and conference leadership would be fearful of all the litigation potential.

Yeah, I hate it, but fear of litigation is going to drive a lot of this and hold us back from getting going again. Lawyers are necessary, but man I wish there was a loser pays system.

 

[RamblinRed]

Sometimes pictures are better than words. Irregardless of the transmission rate, the mortality rate, just understand it is a very serious health issue. On a national level COVID19 has been the leading cause of death since April 6th. The top 7 causes of death outside of COVID19 are not infectious diseases. Flu and pneumonia is #8 and in April the daily death rate from COVID19 has been 15X greater than that of the flu.

 

[gthxxxx]

I'm just telling you the possible scenarios that will play out. Kids either want to play or they don't. The only way to force them to threaten them they if they don't play you pull their scholarship...that's coercion. I doubt any school or the NCAA is dumb enough to let that happen because the monetary damages could be crippling, not to mention the PR disaster...but some coaches I wouldn't be shocked.

The bigger point is the waiver idea wouldn't get too far.

What's the funding source for the athletic scholarships in the past? From the athletic departments? If no games are played, there's no revenue for the athletic department, right? For the public schools, what's the legalities for how much the athletic department can go into debt for those scholarships? For the private schools, how much are the "owners" willing to go into debt and are there any organizational conditions on their funding? Personally, I don't think the choice of playing or not will even get to the players because there won't be money for the games to exist.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Sometimes pictures are better than words. Irregardless of the transmission rate, the mortality rate, just understand it is a very serious health issue. On a national level COVID19 has been the leading cause of death since April 6th. The top 7 causes of death outside of COVID19 are not infectious diseases. Flu and pneumonia is #8 and in April the daily death rate from COVID19 has been 15X greater than that of the flu.

View attachment 8246

I'd be interested in seeing this for a few states other than NY. Like SC, GA, TN, FL, etc. I think most people don't doubt areas like NY are in a very bad place (for example, 17 of the 37 deaths per million in that chart were just from them). But I'd be interested to see other areas. In South Carolina, we're running at 17 deaths per million in the latest week...in other words in the same general area as the Flu/Pneuemonia.

 

[gthxxxx]

Sometimes pictures are better than words. Irregardless of the transmission rate, the mortality rate, just understand it is a very serious health issue. On a national level COVID19 has been the leading cause of death since April 6th. The top 7 causes of death outside of COVID19 are not infectious diseases. Flu and pneumonia is #8 and in April the daily death rate from COVID19 has been 15X greater than that of the flu.

View attachment 8246

Just out of curiosity, did the source explain why they didn't just map the other causes of deaths for the same time frame as Covid, i.e. 2020 instead of 2017 and one from 2018?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Also, this last chart will be one to watch. In California, they just went back and did autopsies on a couple people that died the first week in February and found COVID-19. I don't know the deal about how when an 85 year old lady in a nursing home passes away in her sleep or whatever how they register the cause of death. Will be interesting to watch the general trend of all deaths versus normal averages.