Coronavirus Thread

[CHE90]

What if I want to go to work but you don’t? Why should you get your way and I don’t? Why can’t we both choose and you can chose to stay at home where you feel safe and I can go to work where I feel it’s not a big enough threat for me to worry about?

This is fundamentally what’s playing out here. You got those who like to control (and boy do they love it) trying to control those who don’t like being controlled (and boy do we hate it), plus a bunch of sheep in the middle that will go whatever way they think they’re being told.

I advocate not telling anyone to go to work or not go to work. Let people choose. I know I can decide for myself. If you need government’s help to decide what to do, well seek government’s guidance and leave me alone. If the sheep want to follow you, fine. If they tag along behind me that’s ok too. They’re sheep and they won’t decide for themselves anyway.

The best post on this topic so far.

 

[LibertyTurns]

By this kind of reasoning any kind of assault against a new virus is out. It isn't my choice to stay at home that's at risk; it's my health. And your choice puts it at risk. If I could be sure that you would not catch and transmit the disease, fine. But, of course, I can't and neither can anyone else. That's why the courts (for instance) have always upheld restrictions on individual behavior during epidemics. If, say, we had a vaccine for COVID-19 and you refused to get inoculated, it would be exactly the same scenario. We do this for kids all the time and for good reason. We'll do it for this one for adults; no work without a vaccination is for sure coming.

And it is justified too boot.

I still haven’t figured out how me being at work while you’re safely at home presents any risk to you at all, but apparently you’re convinced it does. Maybe someone else can explain it? By the way, myself & my workforce has been at work everyday during Florida’s stay at home declaration by DeSantis. Anyone that has declared a personal issue has been permitted to work at home if possible, take time off if desired & if they run out of personal time are allowed to borrow or go unpaid as long as they deem necessary. We also let people move to off-shifts, etc if they wanted to reduce their exposure that way. It’s called freedom & I’m not forcing any of them to do anything, they are making their own choices. I’m really not sure what’s so unsavory about personal choice but it has many vocal opponents on this board.

Also, I’m not aware of a single civilian business in the US that checks your vaccinations as a requirement for employment and not every state has 100% mandatory vaccination requirements for school age children. About half the states allow parents to opt out and many do.

There’s plenty of Americans that do not believe anyone’s entitled to force your “justifiable” anything upon them. Maybe they’re wrong, but we do live in a free country not some dictatorship. Perhaps we should just follow the laws of the land & if people don’t like the laws they can vote to change the laws.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

Weird, Johns Hopkins is showing me we finished yesterday at 784k and currently we sit at 816k...a difference of 32k.

That was yesterday. You wont see the update to after 8:00 maybe around 9:00 is when I usually get to see the updates

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

Jesus Christ, Michigan is almost Orwellian so I wouldn't doubt South Korea is as well.

I guess I consider Orwellian to the level of East Germany in the 70's

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but you literally cannot force someone to work. If someone believes their job puts them at risk of an injury or death, that according to OSHA rules is an exemption. In a previous discussion on this thread, the people used in this illustration were over 60 with pre-existing conditions and previously worked for a hair salon and restaurant. I get the sense (the person who told that story can speak up if I'm wrong) in the current world, there literally is nothing those employers could do to make them feel comfortable going back to work in those jobs. Nobody can force you to work. Using that health exemption, they should be able to draw unemployment, which at ~$50k is actually probably a lot more money than they made before. They can also look for another job, or they can just stay out of the workforce until there is a vaccine or the conditions improve. They also don't have to contract the virus from someone else - if they feel their current self is a huge health risk around the virus, they can choose to stay home and self-isolate. My in-laws are doing exactly that. Whether or not Liberty goes out, 1,000,000 people do, or 0, they aren't leaving their premises (groceries delivered, etc.) until there is a vaccine or effective medicines.

We already discussed this earlier. Even with the OSHA, if they were to believe that the company in question has justifiably made their company safe for work and covered every guide line, but a high risk individual still doesn’t feel comfortable working, the OSHA could potentially not rule the company at any fault. That would mean the employee in question is not eligible for unemployment if they decide not to come back to work due to feeling unsafe, which would essentially force them to back to work.

I am sure there will be plenty of Good Samaritans like @684Bee who have the leadership and compassion to allow individual employees make that decision, but that isn’t required by the OSHA. These things are case by case basis. If I say it’s bad for my health to go to work because I work with a bunch of mutt fans, the OSHA isn’t protecting me. That’s an exaggerated example, but there will be cases where the government sides with a company even if an employee has a genuine fear for their well being.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

I guess I consider Orwellian to the level of East Germany in the 70's

This is a really bad excuse for you guys to try and save face for thinking South Korea was North Korea.

 

[LibertyTurns]

We already discussed this earlier. Even with the OSHA, if they were to believe that the company in question has justifiably made their company safe for work and covered every guide line, but a high risk individual still doesn’t feel comfortable working, the OSHA could potentially not rule the company at any fault. That would mean the employee in question is not eligible for unemployment if they decide not to come back to work due to feeling unsafe, which would essentially force them to back to work.

You’re equating choices with being forced. At what point would anyone decide the employee in question is just being irrational- 50% disagree, 60%, 75%, 99%? As a data point I’ve got 30 employees out on unpaid time off because they’ve run out of time. I’m unaware of any of them risking their health for a few bucks. Lastly, a company must not value you if they’re unwilling to compromise when you’re in need. I say that but I’m non-union & I’m sure some of you on here are facing idiotic rules & situations courtesy being unionized.

 

[YellowJacketFan2018]

The protests are beginning and i side with the protestors

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

You’re equating choices with being forced. At what point would anyone decide the employee in question is just being irrational- 50% disagree, 60%, 75%, 99%? As a data point I’ve got 30 employees out on unpaid time off because they’ve run out of time. I’m unaware of any of them risking their health for a few bucks. Lastly, a company must not value you if they’re unwilling to compromise when you’re in need. I say that but I’m non-union & I’m sure some of you on here are facing idiotic rules & situations courtesy being unionized.

Don’t be thick. Choosing to work or be unemployed without unemployment benefits isn’t a choice at all.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

We already discussed this earlier. Even with the OSHA, if they were to believe that the company in question has justifiably made their company safe for work and covered every guide line, but a high risk individual still doesn’t feel comfortable working, the OSHA could potentially not rule the company at any fault. That would mean the employee in question is not eligible for unemployment if they decide not to come back to work due to feeling unsafe, which would essentially force them to back to work.

I am sure there will be plenty of Good Samaritans like @684Bee who have the leadership and compassion to allow individual employees make that decision, but that isn’t required by the OSHA. These things are case by case basis. If I say it’s bad for my health to go to work because I work with a bunch of mutt fans, the OSHA isn’t protecting me. That’s an exaggerated example, but there will be cases where the government sides with a company even if an employee has a genuine fear for their well being.

I mean IIWII. If someone is in bad health and doesn’t feel comfortable working for the next 6-9+ months until a vaccine comes out, their employer shouldn’t have to pay them anyway while they stay at home. IIWII.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

I mean IIWII. If someone is in bad health and doesn’t feel comfortable working for the next 6-9+ months until a vaccine comes out, their employer shouldn’t have e to pay them anyway while they stay at home. IIWII.

The employer isn’t. It’s about qualifying for unemployment. I discussed this like three pages ago.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

The employer isn’t. It’s about qualifying for unemployment. I discussed this like three pages ago.

I know, then fix the law so they get unemployment. Or maybe they’ll have a compassionate boss that will fire them so they qualify. IIWII. You can’t be both unwilling to work for several months but also expecting to still get paid. If I were their boss, I’d do them a solid and fire them so they could qualify. But it’s a slippery slope, because if you can say you don’t feel safe working yet still get paid, then everybody would, if you write that into employment laws.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Don’t be thick. Choosing to work or be unemployed without unemployment benefits isn’t a choice at all.

We obviously will never agree on this point. I believe people make choices and with them come consequences. You obviously expect government to save you & provide for you in every way possible. Sorry I wasn’t raised that way. I’m sure I’m not the only one that feels this way either.

 

[684Bee]

We obviously will never agree on this point. I believe people make choices and with them come consequences. You obviously expect government to save you & provide for you in every way possible. Sorry I wasn’t raised that way. I’m sure I’m not the only one that feels this way either.

I’m with you.

 

[CHE90]

I still haven’t figured out how me being at work while you’re safely at home presents any risk to you at all, but apparently you’re convinced it does. Maybe someone else can explain it? By the way, myself & my workforce has been at work everyday during Florida’s stay at home declaration by DeSantis. Anyone that has declared a personal issue has been permitted to work at home if possible, take time off if desired & if they run out of personal time are allowed to borrow or go unpaid as long as they deem necessary. We also let people move to off-shifts, etc if they wanted to reduce their exposure that way. It’s called freedom & I’m not forcing any of them to do anything, they are making their own choices. I’m really not sure what’s so unsavory about personal choice but it has many vocal opponents on this board.

Also, I’m not aware of a single civilian business in the US that checks your vaccinations as a requirement for employment and not every state has 100% mandatory vaccination requirements for school age children. About half the states allow parents to opt out and many do.

There’s plenty of Americans that do not believe anyone’s entitled to force your “justifiable” anything upon them. Maybe they’re wrong, but we do live in a free country not some dictatorship. Perhaps we should just follow the laws of the land & if people don’t like the laws they can vote to change the laws.

Stop it! You're making too much sense!

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

We obviously will never agree on this point. I believe people make choices and with them come consequences. You obviously expect government to save you & provide for you in every way possible. Sorry I wasn’t raised that way. I’m sure I’m not the only one that feels this way either.

Nope. I don’t expect the government to save me. I even voted for Trump. I probably agree with you on more issues than you realize. I was just raised to care about other folks and have common sense which are both things that our current leaders don’t seem to grasp.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

It’s too bad we have to fire people who’d otherwise have a job after all this is over because our Governor has his head up his ***. You say it is what it is, but this whole scenario was avoidable. Unfortunately, our Governor is the Mayor from JAWS.

Whos to say they couldn’t go back and work there again after a vaccine comes out? What does any of that have to do with the governor?

 

[LibertyTurns]

It’s too bad we have to fire people who’d otherwise have a job after all this is over because our Governor has his head up his ***. You say it is what it is, but this whole scenario was avoidable. Unfortunately, our Governor is the Mayor from JAWS.

Well this we can agree on. It was most assuredly avoidable. Kemp folded like a cheap tent under political pressure from DC. He should have grown a pair and worked with the mayors to lockdown the hotspots, attended to the risky demographics and left the rest of the state alone.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

This is a really bad excuse for you guys to try and save face for thinking South Korea was North Korea.

I think you may be mistaken. I was taking the opposite position earlier.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

Whos to say they couldn’t go back and work there again after a vaccine comes out? What does any of that have to do with the governor?

I already explained this. It has to do with the difference between being furloughed and laid off. I’m not about to explain it again. You can look back for it.