Coronavirus Thread

[takethepoints]

It's evidence that we should have been better prepared. Pandemics like these are "part of a legally required transition exercise with members of the outgoing administration". This same exercise will be required of Trump's team to the next incoming administration...whether in 2020 or 2024.

What's interesting is there's an exercise, documents provided in the links, that bring up the exact questions we are grappling with now...so those questions had a 2 year gestation period for an incident like this.

We can't predict WHEN something will come, but we can predict that something WILL come.

Just so everybody will remember:

There was a transition team headed by Chris Christie that interviewed Obama administration officials, prepared a seven volume report on each agency and where they were as of the takeover, and suggested new officials to take over in political appointments. The day after Trump was inaugurated Christie was at Trump Tower to deliver the results of three months work and report to Trump about his team's recommendations. He was taken aside by Steve Bannon before he got in the elevator, told that he and his whole team had been fired, and to leave the report in the lobby. The report itself was soon destroyed. Also, the Obama administration, just like the Bush administration, had put together a course on what the government did and how it did it, then sat there through the entire transition period without being asked about what was going on. The "transition teams" sent out from the White House spent virtually no time at all learning about the various agencies of our government. They were mainly interested in finding out who did things Trump didn't like.

So who ends up running things? Take Trump's first nominee for the chief science job at Agriculture. That would be Sam Clovis, a right wing radio host and Trump supporter with absolutely no science background at all. (Unless you consider a Doctor of Public Administration a qualification for agricultural research, that is.) Luckily, the statute that created the office didn't allow him to take it; the law requires, you know, actual expertise.

For those interested in the gory details on this, I recommend Mike Lewis's The Fifth Risk. That's the risk a society runs when it falls into the habit of responding to long term risks with short term solutions. Sort of like the way the administration has "worked" on COVID-19 for the last five months.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Just so everybody will remember:

There was a transition team headed by Chris Christie that interviewed Obama administration officials, prepared a seven volume report on each agency and where they were as of the takeover, and suggested new officials to take over in political appointments. The day after Trump was inaugurated Christie was at Trump Tower to deliver the results of three months work and report to Trump about his team's recommendations. He was taken aside by Steve Bannon before he got in the elevator, told that he and his whole team had been fired, and to leave the report in the lobby. The report itself was soon destroyed. Also, the Obama administration, just like the Bush administration, had put together a course on what the government did and how it did it, then sat there through the entire transition period without being asked about what was going on. The "transition teams" sent out from the White House spent virtually no time at all learning about the various agencies of our government. They were mainly interested in finding out who did things Trump didn't like.

So who ends up running things? Take Trump's first nominee for the chief science job at Agriculture. That would be Sam Clovis, a right wing radio host and Trump supporter with absolutely no science background at all. (Unless you consider a Doctor of Public Administration a qualification for agricultural research, that is.) Luckily, the statute that created the office didn't allow him to take it; the law requires, you know, actual expertise.

For those interested in the gory details on this, I recommend Mike Lewis's The Fifth Risk. That's the risk a society runs when it falls into the habit of responding to long term risks with short term solutions. Sort of like the way the administration has "worked" on COVID-19 for the last five months.

Trump, for various reasons, may have been slow in really getting things going, but he did institute the China travel ban back in January, one of the most significant decisions he has made. Meanwhile, what were the democrats in congress doing during the past 5 months? They were too busy trying to impeach Trump, rather than actually addressing the REAL needs of the country. In January, when Trump instituted that travel ban, the democrats were screaming for more witnesses. So even though Trump might not have done enough, he at least did something. The democrats did absolutely nothing, other than say the travel ban was racist. I will take a slow start over a continuing total lack of effort or even substantive suggestions any day of the week.

 

[Techster]

Hey, @Supersizethatorder-mutt , they are talking to you. Time for you to throw a dance party at home!



CAN I GO TO THE GYM?

Watson: I would not advise people to go to the gym to work out now. I am trending more toward being conservative with social-distancing measures the more we see from Italy and with the changes in guidance from CDC and state and local health authorities. So, I would not advise people to go to the gym to work out now.

Cannuscio: No. In the coming days, as the crisis escalates, our freedom of movement may be restricted, so people will have to get creative about exercising at home. Can someone please host virtual dance parties? Create a playlist to get us through the pandemic? Our family has felt some relief after blasting music and dancing around the kitchen—not to deny the horror of what is happening now, but to deal with it. Our daughter actually thanked us when we threw a dance party. Highly recommend.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Hey, @Supersizethatorder-mutt , they are talking to you. Time for you to throw a dance party at home!



CAN I GO TO THE GYM?

Watson: I would not advise people to go to the gym to work out now. I am trending more toward being conservative with social-distancing measures the more we see from Italy and with the changes in guidance from CDC and state and local health authorities. So, I would not advise people to go to the gym to work out now.

Cannuscio: No. In the coming days, as the crisis escalates, our freedom of movement may be restricted, so people will have to get creative about exercising at home. Can someone please host virtual dance parties? Create a playlist to get us through the pandemic? Our family has felt some relief after blasting music and dancing around the kitchen—not to deny the horror of what is happening now, but to deal with it. Our daughter actually thanked us when we threw a dance party. Highly recommend.

DAMMIT. LOL

I am still somewhat undecided on that, because, at least today, there were so few people at my gym, and I imagine the number will get even lower. I was REALLY LAZY during to colder months and didn't go. Now that it's warmed up I have been going, and I really need to go. Obviously, I can take walks instead, but I hate doing that. I wish I still had a working bicycle, because I love riding a bike, and there are some great riding areas near my house. I don't know if it can be made good again, or not, but I guess I should take it to a bike shop and find out. Or maybe just buy a new one.

Anyway, thanks for sharing that. I read the entire thing, and there was a lot of good stuff in it.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Hey, @Supersizethatorder-mutt , they are talking to you. Time for you to throw a dance party at home!



CAN I GO TO THE GYM?

Watson: I would not advise people to go to the gym to work out now. I am trending more toward being conservative with social-distancing measures the more we see from Italy and with the changes in guidance from CDC and state and local health authorities. So, I would not advise people to go to the gym to work out now.

Cannuscio: No. In the coming days, as the crisis escalates, our freedom of movement may be restricted, so people will have to get creative about exercising at home. Can someone please host virtual dance parties? Create a playlist to get us through the pandemic? Our family has felt some relief after blasting music and dancing around the kitchen—not to deny the horror of what is happening now, but to deal with it. Our daughter actually thanked us when we threw a dance party. Highly recommend.

I just checked and there's a highly rated bike shop about a mile from where I live. I think I will check with them as to whether it would be worth it to take my old one in and see if it can be fixed up, or just buy a new one.

 

[LibertyTurns]

It's evidence that we should have been better prepared. Pandemics like these are "part of a legally required transition exercise with members of the outgoing administration". This same exercise will be required of Trump's team to the next incoming administration...whether in 2020 or 2024.

What's interesting is there's an exercise, documents provided in the links, that bring up the exact questions we are grappling with now...so those questions had a 2 year gestation period for an incident like this.

We can't predict WHEN something will come, but we can predict that something WILL come.

I participated in the same damn exercise in 1998 & 2000. This preparation exercise and regular exercises have been ongoing every damn year or two years depending on the scenario since God knows when but it has been at least 2 decades. Hell, they “war gamed” 9-11. Still didn’t prevent Slick & W from screwing the pooch on that. Our government is full of people who are masters of the obvious but incapable of taking proper action when what’s eventually going to happen is staring them straight in the face. Many of you all need to stopping so much TV and buying the politicians and media BS.

 

[slugboy]

I understand what you are saying, but the fact that there were at most 20 people in the entire building, and less than 10 on the machines, plus the fact that I wipe down the surface areas that I will touch, as well as after I finish give me some measure of assurance .... for now. They have limited their operating hours, and they may end up actually closing the place. Not that it necessarily matters, but the gym I go to is run by the Salvation Army.

I’m avoiding the gym right now. Mine is heavy weightlifting, and sweat goes everywhere. They’re doing all they can to sanitize, but ironically gyms are one of the biggest transmission hubs, and they’re full of fit people trying to stay healthy


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[slugboy]

I haven't read all sixty pages of this thread, so I don't know whether this has been mentioned or not, but...

In the 1918 Spanish Flu epidemic, one treatment for it that had some success was to take blood from someone who had recovered from the flu and give it to someone who was seriously ill. The blood had antibodies in it and was a sort of vaccination. It was also given to people who had not contracted the flu and was fairly successful in preventing them from getting it, or at least from getting as seriously ill from it. The data from a hundred years ago is probably largely anecdotal, but it has been analyzed and found to prove that the treatment was somewhat successful.

It went out of style with modern vaccinations but some wonder if it could be resurrected in this case since there is no vaccination as yet. The science seems quite sound. It works on the same principle as vaccination.

China brought blood donations from recovered patients to Italy. Physicians know their options and history.


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[Deleted member 2897]

Crossing my fingers this doesn't get down the political rabbit hole, but not holding my breath...

Most of the world per capita is worse off on this thing when we are. Certainly no better. Your hate for 1 person is just sad. Remember, just yesterday it was you who said 3 billion people live in China. You’re also the guy who says Trump should have done a bunch of things differently, yet you can’t name a single thing. Taking out your irrational hate of someone during a time like this is not a good look. Do you ever take a break? Remember Obama was the guy who let over 50 million people get hit with the swine Flu and over 20,000 died. Was that his fault? NO. TDS is real.

 

[slugboy]

Timothy Gowers (Field Medalist and really good mathematician) did some analysis on outbreak strategies. He recommends the work done by epidemiologists because they’re experts in the field, but he tried some analysis to get a better understanding. He clearly understands being a great mathematician doesn’t make him an expert epidemiologist, but he’s still curious



The longer you wait, the longer the quarantine has to be, so start early

You could also extrapolate to “the longer you wait to lock things down, the worse the economic impact.”

Mitt Romney is proposing a $1000/month stipend to ever adult during the outbreak. There are similar proposals from Tulsi Gabbard and other senators and members of Congress.

Restaurants may be doomed already. David Chang calls “take out” fool’s gold, but they have to try something to keep their businesses going.


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[RonJohn]

Mitt Romney is proposing a $1000/month stipend to ever adult during the outbreak. There are similar proposals from Tulsi Gabbard and other senators and members of Congress.

Do you have a link to Romney proposing $1,000 per month? Everything I have seen from him only says $1,000. Gabbard is proposing a monthly stipend, but I haven't seen any statements or comments from Romney that do.

 

[slugboy]

Do you have a link to Romney proposing $1,000 per month? Everything I have seen from him only says $1,000. Gabbard is proposing a monthly stipend, but I haven't seen any statements or comments from Romney that do.

You’re right—I saw a description that said $1k/month, but his site says “one time payment “

https://www.romney.senate.gov/romney-calls-urgent-action-additional-coronavirus-response-measures

$1000 will go further in Utah than most of the US. It’s not a month’s rent in the big cities


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[Deleted member 2897]

Anybody find it odd nobody is sending and showing news stories from Italian hospitals? I’m not suggesting this is fake, I’m suggesting it’s a huge missed opportunity to show what is coming. It’s unfathomable to me to have seen really nothing.

 

[armeck]

Anybody find it odd nobody is sending and showing news stories from Italian hospitals? I’m not suggesting this is fake, I’m suggesting it’s a huge missed opportunity to show what is coming. It’s unfathomable to me to have seen really nothing.

This was published today.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/podcasts/the-daily/italy-coronavirus.html

 

[RonJohn]

You’re right—I saw a description that said $1k/month, but his site says “one time payment “

https://www.romney.senate.gov/romney-calls-urgent-action-additional-coronavirus-response-measures

$1000 will go further in Utah than most of the US. It’s not a month’s rent in the big cities

There is a Buzzfeed article that the Google search shows an old headline stating that Romney is calling for basic income. The article's actual headline has been changed to Romney wants to give every adult $1,000. The article has been modified and doesn't make a lot of sense because it originally said that Romney now agreed with Andrew Yang.

It is too common that news and/or blog sites use click-bait headlines. It is very common on blog sites for the articles to be very heavy on opinion and very light on facts. That is even true far too often on actual mainstream news sites.

Not speaking to you in particular: For the virus, read the CDC website for information and facts. Read: Fox News, CNN, NYT, WSJ, Washington Post, and more. Don't get taken in by the commentary(all of them have plenty). Read the history of people quoted in the article to get an understanding of their biases and reliability. Read quotes from those people, not how the article's writer interpreted the quote. Take information from all of them, and arrive at your own conclusions.

 

[CuseJacket]

 

[slugboy]

There is a Buzzfeed article that the Google search shows an old headline stating that Romney is calling for basic income. The article's actual headline has been changed to Romney wants to give every adult $1,000. The article has been modified and doesn't make a lot of sense because it originally said that Romney now agreed with Andrew Yang.

It is too common that news and/or blog sites use click-bait headlines. It is very common on blog sites for the articles to be very heavy on opinion and very light on facts. That is even true far too often on actual mainstream news sites.

Not speaking to you in particular: For the virus, read the CDC website for information and facts. Read: Fox News, CNN, NYT, WSJ, Washington Post, and more. Don't get taken in by the commentary(all of them have plenty). Read the history of people quoted in the article to get an understanding of their biases and reliability. Read quotes from those people, not how the article's writer interpreted the quote. Take information from all of them, and arrive at your own conclusions.

The first I saw of it was one of Romney’s tweets. I don’t read Buzzfeed. It said, roughly, “$1000 per adult during this crisis”

(And thanks—I know you’re not picking on me . )

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[Deleted member 2897]

The first I saw of it was one of Romney’s tweets. I don’t read Buzzfeed. It said, roughly, “$1000 per adult during this crisis”


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The bottom line is people don't have enough money in savings to cover emergencies, and the amount of money people need will be a lot more than that. The median income is something like $60k/year. That's $5k/month. Imagine a single Mom making $3k/month ($36k/year). Imagine a dual income family with 3 kids making $80k/year ($7k/month). $1k is helpful, but will cover about 2 weeks of expenses.

 

[Techster]

Timothy Gowers (Field Medalist and really good mathematician) did some analysis on outbreak strategies. He recommends the work done by epidemiologists because they’re experts in the field, but he tried some analysis to get a better understanding. He clearly understands being a great mathematician doesn’t make him an expert epidemiologist, but he’s still curious



The longer you wait, the longer the quarantine has to be, so start early

You could also extrapolate to “the longer you wait to lock things down, the worse the economic impact.”

Mitt Romney is proposing a $1000/month stipend to ever adult during the outbreak. There are similar proposals from Tulsi Gabbard and other senators and members of Congress.

Restaurants may be doomed already. David Chang calls “take out” fool’s gold, but they have to try something to keep their businesses going.


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The "playbook" is out there. We watched other nations grapple with it now for a month. We also watched other nations successfully contain and mitigate it a month ahead of us.

America needs to make some hard choices. That's the public and our government (on all levels). Us Americans don't like to be told what to do, and we definitely don't like our daily lives interrupted and inconvenienced. Unless EVERYONE is willing to make sacrifices now, it only gets worse for us. The virus doesn't discriminate. We've seen billionaires, athletes, celebrities, and world leaders all catch the virus. Outside of a miracle happening within the next week (a cure), the math on this tells us we are headed for some ugly numbers soon.

So here we are. Do we swallow hard, and take start taking accelerated measures other countries had to take, or do we delay the inevitable as the number of infections grows exponentially?

 

[Techster]

DAMMIT. LOL

I am still somewhat undecided on that, because, at least today, there were so few people at my gym, and I imagine the number will get even lower. I was REALLY LAZY during to colder months and didn't go. Now that it's warmed up I have been going, and I really need to go. Obviously, I can take walks instead, but I hate doing that. I wish I still had a working bicycle, because I love riding a bike, and there are some great riding areas near my house. I don't know if it can be made good again, or not, but I guess I should take it to a bike shop and find out. Or maybe just buy a new one.

Anyway, thanks for sharing that. I read the entire thing, and there was a lot of good stuff in it.

Go with the new bike. The world is about to end...you don't want your bike falling apart trying to outrun this virus.