Coronavirus Thread

[MWBATL]

The sense of entitlement in this country is too great to beat this virus. All that’s left is hope for a vaccine.

its very depressing. 150k dead already and far more before we get a vaccine and/or better treatment.

150k dead Americans in 5 months. How anyone can be so cavalier about these losses is unconscionable. I’d even argue the antithesis of a “patriot”. Unbelievable. Every other developed country did what they had to do to get this under control. They’ll have sports, travel, family holidays, all w/out the shadow of this virus. But not us in America. This will be a very interesting read in 20 years.

Facts about the results in other countries will help you (hint: you’re completely mistaken if you think the US is an outlier).

we are overweight as a culture and are paying the price for that weakness. Selah.

 

[ncjacket79]

Georgia is just going thru the media frenzy about running out of ICU beds that Florida did. We’re 3 months from the election and it’s time to score points. As soon as Florida had its fill of ICU media hysteria to make the point, the ICU bed tracking frenzy vanished. It will in Georgia as well but will take 2 weeks. That’s about the length of the cycle. There was no systemic issue in Florida, just a couple hospitals within counties that were nearing capacity. A handful of patients needed to go 5 mi up or down the road for treatment until the surge vanished the next day. It literally went away that quickly.

I don’t believe it ever was critical in FL but over 40 hospitals with full ICUs is more than a couple.

 

[Vespidae]

150k dead Americans in 5 months. How anyone can be so cavalier about these losses is unconscionable. I’d even argue the antithesis of a “patriot”. Unbelievable. Every other developed country did what they had to do to get this under control.

Does every other country have the same situation as the US?

Is COVID really the cause of 150,000 dead? Some doctors have complained about being pressured to list COVID-19 as a cause of death, perhaps because the CARES Act provides a 20% Medicare bonus for COVID patients. And most recorded COVID-19 fatalities are elderly people with one or more co-morbidities.

The CDC has a huge institutional interest in maximizing the COVID problem, but it admits that the fatality numbers are misleading. They admit as much in its June 24 update of the data:

“For 7% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned.”

You read that right: not 97%, 7%.

The “true death rate” is estimated to be 0.2%, which compares favorably to the flu.

The bottom line is other countries may not be pressured to list all deaths as COVID because they are paid to do so.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Does every other country have the same situation as the US?

Is COVID really the cause of 150,000 dead? Some doctors have complained about being pressured to list COVID-19 as a cause of death, perhaps because the CARES Act provides a 20% Medicare bonus for COVID patients. And most recorded COVID-19 fatalities are elderly people with one or more co-morbidities.

The CDC has a huge institutional interest in maximizing the COVID problem, but it admits that the fatality numbers are misleading. They admit as much in its June 24 update of the data:

You read that right: not 97%, 7%.

The “true death rate” is estimated to be 0.2%, which compares favorably to the flu.

The bottom line is other countries may not be pressured to list all deaths as COVID because they are paid to do so.

Well yes and no. COVID-19 is estimated to be 6x more contagious than the Flu. It also has a significantly higher rate of transmission among asymptomatic carriers. And lots of more severe and long term effects. But yes, COVID-19 hits people with certain morbidities harder. Nearly half our deaths are in nursing homes. So if someone is already fighting congenital heart disease or cancer or something else, if COVID-19 tips them over the edge, it won’t be the only thing listed on the death certificate. The number of healthy middle-aged people (or younger) that have died from COVID-19 alone is indeed really small.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I don’t believe it ever was critical in FL but over 40 hospitals with full ICUs is more than a couple.

What I see going on is what our local hospitals are doing, ie they close down an ICU ward in March because it’s empty so the available ICU beds go from 40 to 24. Then in June we have 22 people in ICU and the local rag says ICU is at 90% capacity and we’re in danger of overflowing and people dying. We’re really at 55% capacity not 90, the Nurse down the street’s now told she’s back to full time with maybe some OT here and there. We were one of the 40 hospitals. One of my peers Mom went in for lung surgery in the middle of this lunacy. He’s staring at a sign that says COVID ICU, entire hallway with maybe a dozen beds is dark, cold and quiet. Not manned up, nothing yet we’re in danger of overflowing.

 

[Techster]

Georgia is just going thru the media frenzy about running out of ICU beds that Florida did. We’re 3 months from the election and it’s time to score points. As soon as Florida had its fill of ICU media hysteria to make the point, the ICU bed tracking frenzy vanished. It will in Georgia as well but will take 2 weeks. That’s about the length of the cycle. There was no systemic issue in Florida, just a couple hospitals within counties that were nearing capacity. A handful of patients needed to go 5 mi up or down the road for treatment until the surge vanished the next day. It literally went away that quickly.

The data just isn't backing up your statement.

Workbook: Public

Statewide, there's less than 16% available Adult ICU capacity. Of the 14 largest Counties that are reporting (Counties with a ICU bed count over 100), 4 are at 10% or less available ICU capacity, 5 are at less than 20% available ICU capacity. Your county, Duval, is at 23% available ICU capacity. The largest hospital in Duval County, University of Florida Health, has 3 ICU beds (out of 97) available. While statistically it looks like the other hospitals in Duval are doing better, you're talking small hospitals with 90% that have less than 50 adult ICU beds total. Hopefully Duval county doesn't experience the wave of infections that South Florida. The good news is the Jacksonville area has reported less than 200 infections for the first time since the middle of June.

The reason no one is focusing on Florida anymore is that it's just beating a dead horse, and other parts of the country are getting just as bad in terms of infection and hospitalization rate. We are literally getting so much Covid news right now it's become normal and almost accepted. Personally, I don't really even check stats anymore because what's the point? Half the people think it's over blown, the other half think the Covid is the plague. We've become no numbed to the crazy Covid numbers in the United States that it's become normalized. People are starting to take on a new tack "Well, it's bad in other areas, but my area is OK!" As if one area doesn't affect the other...I hope some realize the virus is based on movement, and the last I checked, people move around. A LOT.

Our country is pretty much letting herd immunity play out, so it's almost better to just shut out the Covid noise and just worry about yourself and your loved ones.

 

[LibertyTurns]

The data just isn't backing up your statement.

Workbook: Public

Statewide, there's less than 16% available Adult ICU capacity. Of the 14 largest Counties that are reporting (Counties with a ICU bed count over 100), 4 are at 10% or less available ICU capacity, 5 are at less than 20% available ICU capacity. Your county, Duval, is at 23% available ICU capacity. The largest hospital in Duval County, University of Florida Health, has 3 ICU beds (out of 97) available. While statistically it looks like the other hospitals in Duval are doing better, you're talking small hospitals with 90% that have less than 50 adult ICU beds total. Hopefully Duval county doesn't experience the wave of infections that South Florida. The good news is the Jacksonville area has reported less than 200 infections for the first time since the middle of June.

The reason no one is focusing on Florida anymore is that it's just beating a dead horse, and other parts of the country are getting just as bad in terms of infection and hospitalization rate. We are literally getting so much Covid news right now it's become normal and almost accepted. Personally, I don't really even check stats anymore because what's the point? Half the people think it's over blown, the other half think the Covid is the plague. We've become no numbed to the crazy Covid numbers in the United States that it's become normalized. People are starting to take on a new tack "Well, it's bad in other areas, but my area is OK!" As if one area doesn't affect the other...I hope some realize the virus is based on movement, and the last I checked, people move around. A LOT.

Our country is pretty much letting herd immunity play out, so it's almost better to just shut out the Covid noise and just worry about yourself and your loved ones.

Yes, South Florida is a mess. It will continue to be a mess until someone with a brain takes over that entire area. It’s plain old fashioned horrible leadership. Tampa spiked for about a week and is now back to normal. There are selected hospitals that intermittently get a surge but it’s short lived. It doesn’t mean the entire state is in a panic because South Florida is another version of NYC.

Interesting comments in the article- hospitals are required to get the staff off furlough before getting the state assistance with Nurses, etc. If they’re all plumb tuckered our why haven’t they recalled the Nurses they got sitting at home?????? There’s only a couple of reasons- they want crap for free and they have an agenda which is not public service.

Frantic to hire nurses, Florida spends millions on recruits

In the last month as hospitals filled up and cases soared, the Florida Department of Emergency Management signed $379 million in purchase orders for “staff augmentation” services to provide reinforcements to hospital staff facing burnout.

www.tampabay.com

 

[Techster]

Yes, South Florida is a mess. It will continue to be a mess until someone with a brain takes over that entire area. It’s plain old fashioned horrible leadership. Tampa spiked for about a week and is now back to normal. There are selected hospitals that intermittently get a surge but it’s short lived. It doesn’t mean the entire state is in a panic because South Florida is another version of NYC.

Interesting comments in the article- hospitals are required to get the staff off furlough before getting the state assistance with Nurses, etc. If they’re all plumb tuckered our why haven’t they recalled the Nurses they got sitting at home?????? There’s only a couple of reasons- they want crap for free and they have an agenda which is not public service.

Frantic to hire nurses, Florida spends millions on recruits

In the last month as hospitals filled up and cases soared, the Florida Department of Emergency Management signed $379 million in purchase orders for “staff augmentation” services to provide reinforcements to hospital staff facing burnout.

www.tampabay.com

Apropos to maybe nothing, just a personal anecdote. One of the budget analysts that works for me has a girlfriend that is a nurse. She works in the ER. She is being recruited to the Tampa area as a Covid traveling nurse because reportedly they have a shortage there.

I think there are definitely some who would rather stay home and get money for nothing (because humans tend to take the path of least resistance), but I also think there's less of that than we all think. Yale actually did a study of employment after UI benefits were enacted:

Yale study finds expanded jobless benefits did not reduce employment

The analysis, supported by Yale’s Tobin Center for Economic Policy, comes as Congress debates whether to extend the expanded unemployment benefits.

news.yale.edu

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

According to GEMA there are 34 ICU beds available in the twelve counties around Augusta.

Augusta, with 6 hospitals in the metropolitan area providing ICU beds, has the 3rd highest number of ICU beds per 10,000 in the country. Although what GEMA reports is apparently correct, even though the outlying counties to Augusta are currently coming up short, there is still (at least according to local reports) a sufficient number of beds in Augusta to meet their needs.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Yes, South Florida is a mess. It will continue to be a mess until someone with a brain takes over that entire area. It’s plain old fashioned horrible leadership. Tampa spiked for about a week and is now back to normal. There are selected hospitals that intermittently get a surge but it’s short lived. It doesn’t mean the entire state is in a panic because South Florida is another version of NYC.

Interesting comments in the article- hospitals are required to get the staff off furlough before getting the state assistance with Nurses, etc. If they’re all plumb tuckered our why haven’t they recalled the Nurses they got sitting at home?????? There’s only a couple of reasons- they want crap for free and they have an agenda which is not public service.

Frantic to hire nurses, Florida spends millions on recruits

In the last month as hospitals filled up and cases soared, the Florida Department of Emergency Management signed $379 million in purchase orders for “staff augmentation” services to provide reinforcements to hospital staff facing burnout.

www.tampabay.com

Many baseline nurses make the same amount they can get from unemployment. My wife’s hospital has a few in her group that got laid off at the beginning and never came back. They’re going to ride th unemployment train while it lasts. These people are not lazy greedy people, there is obviously a health risk being a nurse, so it’s a bit of both for why they are staying at home.

 

[GT_EE78]

The CDC has a huge institutional interest in maximizing the COVID problem, but it admits that the fatality numbers are misleading. They admit as much in its June 24 update of the data:

You read that right: not 97%, 7%.

so instead of the 150K dead media has been reporting, maybe 10K to 15K actually died FROM the virus?

 

[RonJohn]

so instead of the 150K dead media has been reporting, maybe 10K to 15K actually died FROM the virus?

COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned

Only cause mentioned. That means that if it was listed as pneumonia with an underlying cause of COVID-19, that it wouldn't be part of the 7%. How many people caught pneumonia because they had COVID-19? Should none of those be counted as a COVID-19 death simply because the virus caused pneumonia in the person? Many other causes could be listed and be ultimately caused by COVID-19.

I am all for being skeptical of information, but to believe that nobody has been sick from or died from this virus is absolutely tin-foil hat territory.

 

[GT_EE78]

Only cause mentioned. That means that if it was listed as pneumonia with an underlying cause of COVID-19, that it wouldn't be part of the 7%. How many people caught pneumonia because they had COVID-19? Should none of those be counted as a COVID-19 death simply because the virus caused pneumonia in the person? Many other causes could be listed and be ultimately caused by COVID-19.

I am all for being skeptical of information, but to believe that nobody has been sick from or died from this virus is absolutely tin-foil hat territory.

per the other post , the 7% was the CDC number. I didn't make that up.
Are you suggesting that those who read the CDC website wear tinfoil hats?

 

[LibertyTurns]

Leadership in South Florida need to be taken out and keel hauled.

COVID-19 test access disparities in some south Florida communities fall along racial, socioeconomic lines: ANALYSIS

COVID-19 test access disparities in some south Florida communities fall along racial, socioeconomic lines, an analysis has found.

abcnews.go.com

 

[RonJohn]

per the other post , the 7% was the CDC number. I didn't make that up.
Are you suggesting that those who read the CDC website wear tinfoil hats?

7% had zero other causes listed. If COVID-19 causes pneumonia, should pneumonia be left off of the death certificate? If COVID-19 causes septic shock, should septic shock be left off of the death certificate? If COVID-19 causes respiratory failure, should respiratory failure be left off of the death certificate? If COVID-19 causes organ failure, should organ failure be left off of the death certificate?

The tin-foil hat goes to those who believe that pneumonia appears by itself and believe that anyone who had COVID-19 and pneumonia should not count as a COVID-19 death.

 

[LibertyTurns]

7% had zero other causes listed. If COVID-19 causes pneumonia, should pneumonia be left off of the death certificate? If COVID-19 causes septic shock, should septic shock be left off of the death certificate? If COVID-19 causes respiratory failure, should respiratory failure be left off of the death certificate? If COVID-19 causes organ failure, should organ failure be left off of the death certificate?

The tin-foil hat goes to those who believe that pneumonia appears by itself and believe that anyone who had COVID-19 and pneumonia should not count as a COVID-19 death.

Isn’t pneumonia a bacterial disease and coronavirus a viral disease? I don’t know one way or the other but how does a virus cause a bacterial illness?

 

[GT_EE78]

7% had zero other causes listed. If COVID-19 causes pneumonia, should pneumonia be left off of the death certificate? If COVID-19 causes septic shock, should septic shock be left off of the death certificate? If COVID-19 causes respiratory failure, should respiratory failure be left off of the death certificate? If COVID-19 causes organ failure, should organ failure be left off of the death certificate?

The tin-foil hat goes to those who believe that pneumonia appears by itself and believe that anyone who had COVID-19 and pneumonia should not count as a COVID-19 death.

I didn't suggest that as you seem to want to imply.
The tinfoil hat should also belong to those who accept the media death toll without question.
dying with covid isn't the same as dying from covid.
I think you and i both understand that above the 7% is a gray area of uncertainty.

 

[GT_EE78]

Isn’t pneumonia a bacterial disease and coronavirus a viral disease? I don’t know one way or the other but how does a virus cause a bacterial illness?

i don't think it does directly, but a ventilator or intubation tube can.there's probably other ways too

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Isn’t pneumonia a bacterial disease and coronavirus a viral disease? I don’t know one way or the other but how does a virus cause a bacterial illness?

Pneumonia does seem to occur in Covid patients, but, as you said, being a bacterial disease, where does it come from? I got pneumonia shots 3 and 4 years ago (different "editions"), and my pulmonary specialist said, in light of Covid, that was a very good move on my part.

 

[RonJohn]

I didn't suggest that as you seem to want to imply.
The tinfoil hat should also belong to those who accept the media death toll without question.
dying with covid isn't the same as dying from covid.
I think you and i both understand that above the 7% is a gray area of uncertainty.

I don't understand that the 7% is a gray area of uncertainty. What you responded to provided a quote: “For 7% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned.” and stated that 7% is correct, it isn't 97%. That is basically saying that only 7% of all COVID-19 reported deaths are actually COVID-19 reported deaths because only 7% have COVID-19 listed as the sole cause of death. I understand that to mean a belief that only 7% of all deaths reported as actually being caused by COVID-19.

Your response to that indicated that you believe it means that only 10,000 to 15,000 of the reported COVID-19 deaths are actually related to COVID-19, because only 10,000 to 15,000 listed COVID-19 as the sole cause of death. That is basically what you said instead of just a vague indication.

Like I said, being skeptical is healthy. Believing that only 7% of what is being reported is actually true is tin-foil hat terrritory.