Coronavirus Thread

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We're banned because we flattened the curve? False and nonsensical.

COVID-19 ravaged Europe like it did NYC. A large percentage of citizens got the virus. Look at their numbers now.

The rest of us had well under < 1% infected. So we had all those people available to infect once everyone’s bad behavior launched.

Back when they returned to school, their numbers were light years worse than ours are now. IIWII. The numbers are there for everyone to compare.
 

WreckinGT

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COVID-19 ravaged Europe like it did NYC. A large percentage of citizens got the virus. Look at their numbers now.

The rest of us had well under < 1% infected. So we had all those people available to infect once everyone’s bad behavior launched.

Back when they returned to school, their numbers were light years worse than ours are now. IIWII. The numbers are there for everyone to compare.
Only two European countries had a greater number of cases per 1M citizens than the United States. Andorra, and San Marino. Both of which combined have less cases than Cobb County.
 

TechPreacher

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I've been saying this on here for a while. The numbers are inflated. They have been inflated from the beginning. Infection rates don't matter, and death rates are dropping. In fact, the larger the gap grows between infection rates and death rates is a good thing. This virus isn't the boogie man that Fauci and all his useful idiots want us to think that it is. It's been political from the beginning.
 

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Only two European countries had a greater number of cases per 1M citizens than the United States. Andorra, and San Marino. Both of which combined have less cases than Cobb County.

Look back in May when they all started going back to school. Look at what Italy, France, the U.K., Spain and others were saying about people dying by the thousands at home, uncounted. Our situation in May wasn’t even remotely in the same galaxy as them. Anybody who says back in May the United States (outside of NYC) looked even remotely similar to those countries is flat out ignoring the TV and ignoring the data and ignoring the health officials. IIWII.
 

JacketOff

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I've been saying this on here for a while. The numbers are inflated. They have been inflated from the beginning. Infection rates don't matter, and death rates are dropping. In fact, the larger the gap grows between infection rates and death rates is a good thing. This virus isn't the boogie man that Fauci and all his useful idiots want us to think that it is. It's been political from the beginning.
The numbers probably are inflated marginally in certain spots around the country. But there are also parts where the numbers are being downplayed and undercounted, and that’s also been going on since the beginning. If they weren’t, why would pneumonia and flu deaths be so much higher this year than in previous years, in addition to the supposedly inflated coronavirus deaths? Odds are, the over-counted deaths and the under-counted deaths more or less even each other out, and the current number is close to accurate given the information that is currently available. As has been said before, no one will truly know the total damage the virus caused until 2-3 years from now. The answer is almost always somewhere in the middle. In this case, it’s not as bad as some media will lead you to believe, and it’s not nearly as mild as what some “anti-media” folks believe either.
 

RamblinRed

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And this article is already badly out of date and looks bad in retrospect.
No one can look at the numbers objectively and say we are not in a serious place. I don't think you would find many doctors in some of these states that would say that today.

Whether they came into the hospital due to the virus or not is irrelevant. You are supposed to count all the cases, even if that isn't the main reason you are there.

All you need to do is look at how other countries look at the US. They won't let us come into their countries - how bad does it have to be for a country to say, no we don't want you to come and spend your money here. How bad is it when people in Mexico block US entry in their country.
 

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And this article is already badly out of date and looks bad in retrospect.
No one can look at the numbers objectively and say we are not in a serious place. I don't think you would find many doctors in some of these states that would say that today.

Whether they came into the hospital due to the virus or not is irrelevant. You are supposed to count all the cases, even if that isn't the main reason you are there.

All you need to do is look at how other countries look at the US. They won't let us come into their countries - how bad does it have to be for a country to say, no we don't want you to come and spend your money here. How bad is it when people in Mexico block US entry in their country.

We are on vacation in Florida. So my opinion is they are just anti-science. As long as people behave responsibly you can do nearly whatever you want. Much of Europe has used us as an ATM for decades and loves to criticize us...so whatever really. It’s hard to blame them with how horribly ridiculously terribly they managed the virus - I’m sure they don’t want to go through that again.
 

RamblinRed

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With all the hoopla beginning about whether schools should re-open, it is surprising to me that none of the major media has spoken about the fact that many other countries have had schools open for quite a while already, without any disastrous consequences. Here's an article which goes in depth examining the topic:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...t-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaks

This is a great article but also speaks to why having a leader in the Executive Branch who likes to move like a bull in a China shop is a big negative.
it doesn't allow for the kind of conversations that need to be had that involve deep thought and nuance.

We have things to go on. While some countries in Europe have gone back, they also implemented lots of mitigation strategies as mentioned in the article. Alot of the countries didn't send all their kids back at once, they would only send a few grades and then go from there.

We have a bigger issue, our cases are getting worse as we want to send students back while in Europe they were getting significantly better in their countries.
They also went back and did things like social distancing, wearing masks, not eating in the cafeteria and other measures.
Most of the anecdotal data suggests that elementary school kids shouldn't be too much of an issue, but older kids - especially HS age could be more of an issue. College will be an even bigger issue.

There have been outbreaks in schools in other countries but they haven't been big drivers of spread of the most part. But right now the manner favored by the Federal Government for returning kids to school is not one that other countries did - which is basically just send them back no matter what.

As the article mentions, schools are seen are largely safe if there is little community spread and mitigation measures are used
"Early data from European countries suggest the risk to the wider community is small. At least when local infection rates are low, opening schools with some precautions does not seem to cause a significant jump in infections elsewhere."

But that equation potentially changes when you have significant community spread, which I would say is the current situation in roughly half the states right now.

IMO what we should do with schools is the same thing we should have done with re-opening back in May. It should have been controlled, with strong metrics, and done slowly and methodically. Just opening things up wide is a recipe for disaster. Be ready to pull back if things start to go bad. If they continue on a good trajectory then you open more. That process takes longer, but gives you a better chance of getting back to a more normal state without huge setbacks.
 

RamblinRed

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We are on vacation in Florida. So my opinion is they are just anti-science. As long as people behave responsibly you can do nearly whatever you want. Much of Europe has used us as an ATM for decades and loves to criticize us...so whatever really. It’s hard to blame them with how horribly ridiculously terribly they managed the virus - I’m sure they don’t want to go through that again.

if you are saying Europeans are anti-science I would have to disagree with you. They are much less anti-science than US citizens.
They actually followed scientific recommendatons made mostly by US scientists, the US government chose not to do that. Now after getting hit earlier than we did and having less time to prepare than we did, they are in a much better place while we trend all in the wrong direction.

They did terribly mismanage the virus but i'd argue we have managed it at least as bad if not worse. We had more time to prepare for it and still dealt with it badly and instead of truly getting it under control, we have allowed it to control us where we have a long, slow slog in front of us to get back to the normal we seek.
 

Deleted member 2897

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if you are saying Europeans are anti-science I would have to disagree with you. They are much less anti-science than US citizens.
They actually followed scientific recommendatons made mostly by US scientists, the US government chose not to do that. Now after getting hit earlier than we did and having less time to prepare than we did, they are in a much better place while we trend all in the wrong direction.

They did terribly mismanage the virus but i'd argue we have managed it at least as bad if not worse. We had more time to prepare for it and still dealt with it badly and instead of truly getting it under control, we have allowed it to control us where we have a long, slow slog in front of us to get back to the normal we seek.

No that’s not what I said.

I said, just like they are doing, that you can live and do almost anything you want right now if you behave. So their blanked ban is anti science. They could test everyone that arrives, require a quarantine, all kinds of things. But they like to poke us in the eyes.
 

Deleted member 2897

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Our cases went back up to the norm today. The last 7-10 days we’ve been pretty much flat. Hospitalizations in the last 5 weeks went from 400 to 1400. Weekly deaths have varied around 30-40 per week. In the last 9 days we’ve had 150. We have a ton in the ICU and a ton on ventilators. Many hospitals in the main metro areas are almost full. July will suck but if the numbers keep flat August will be a lot better.
 

iopjacket

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Ask yourself. We could make the same argument about you, but what’s the point? There’s no need to derail the thread by insulting people.

bwelbo, he has a point. Most, if not all, American industrial sites would fire you on the spot, if you refused to wear your personel protective equipment because you said God would protect you. Religion is very important in our lives, but we can't endanger others because of our beliefs.
 

iopjacket

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I'm talking about the here and now. You can't go there because of the vast difference in infection rates. Right now.

We banned Europeans and Chinese when their infection rates were high. They are banning us now because our infection rates are high. Europe and the US northeast infection rates are reduced now after being horribly elevated. Infection rates in the US SE and SW are very elevated now.
 

LibertyTurns

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bwelbo, he has a point. Most, if not all, American industrial sites would fire you on the spot, if you refused to wear your personel protective equipment because you said God would protect you. Religion is very important in our lives, but we can't endanger others because of our beliefs.
Interestingly three weeks ago I had a satanist claim he couldn’t wear a mask because of his religion. We told him he could put it on, go home so he could be mask-free to his heart’s content & wait until we no longer require them or stay onsite without his mask & be fired. He put his mask on.
 

bobongo

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We banned Europeans and Chinese when their infection rates were high. They are banning us now because our infection rates are high. Europe and the US northeast infection rates are reduced now after being horribly elevated. Infection rates in the US SE and SW are very elevated now.

That is exactly my point!
 

bobongo

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COVID-19 ravaged Europe like it did NYC. A large percentage of citizens got the virus. Look at their numbers now.

The rest of us had well under < 1% infected. So we had all those people available to infect once everyone’s bad behavior launched.

Back when they returned to school, their numbers were light years worse than ours are now. IIWII. The numbers are there for everyone to compare.

IIWII? You must think that stands for "It is what it isn't", because the E.U.'s infection rate has never been as high as the U.S. has right now. They never had over 50,000 cases a day - never.
 

Deleted member 2897

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bwelbo, he has a point. Most, if not all, American industrial sites would fire you on the spot, if you refused to wear your personel protective equipment because you said God would protect you. Religion is very important in our lives, but we can't endanger others because of our beliefs.

Right, but that wasn’t the point.
 

Deleted member 2897

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We banned Europeans and Chinese when their infection rates were high. They are banning us now because our infection rates are high. Europe and the US northeast infection rates are reduced now after being horribly elevated. Infection rates in the US SE and SW are very elevated now.

Yup, and we banned them after they were already here LOL. With as much as we know now, it’s unnecessary. Just require a paid for test or quarantine. Our infection rates are minuscule. They are only higher than they used to be is all.
 

Deleted member 2897

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IIWII? You must think that stands for "It is what it isn't", because the E.U.'s infection rate has never been as high as the U.S. has right now. They never had over 50,000 cases a day - never.

I had a typo. I meant to say when they sent their kids back to school, their numbers were light years worse than ours were at the time.

On a side note, comparing non population adjusted numbers is pointless anyway. Their countries were ravaged far worse than ours has been. All those countries reported thousands and thousands of dead uncounted people because they had no room in their hospitals. That would equate to 50,000 dead here at home uncounted for the same reason. Have we heard of a single person not getting a bed or ventilator? No.
 
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