Coronavirus Thread

[GTBatGirl96]

Haven't seen this posted yet

 

[GTRX7]

I don’t have cable news or watch it, so I don’t know what you mean. What I wrote about death notifications was from the CDC website itself. I didn’t get it off of World Fake News Daily LOL.

If you look on the CDC’s website and look around, you’ll find tons of information that backs up my question:

https://fox6now.com/2020/05/16/questions-raised-over-accuracy-of-us-coronavirus-death-toll/

Some states count presumed coronavirus deaths along with confirmed cases under the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidance issued last month. Other states don’t count those deaths.

Deaths have been classified as a COVID-19 death even after a physician or loved ones reported otherwise. And those who died “with” COVID-19 have been included in the count with those who died “of” COVID-19.

While there may be some instances of inaccurate reporting, no official guidance I am aware of, and certainly not the official CDC guidance, would count Floyd's death as a COVID death. The official CDC guidance is that a death may only be counted as a COVID death "if COVID-19 played a role in the death." Simply testing positive for COVID is NOT sufficient to list a death as a COVID death unless COVID actually played a role in the Death. More specifically, according to CDC guidelines, to count as a COVID death, a physician must certify that COVID was either the "Immediate Cause (Final disease or condition resulting in death)" or "Underlying Cause (Disease or injury that initiated the events resulting in death)." That judgment must be based on "an informed medical opinion that should be based on sound medical judgment drawn from clinical training and experience, as well as knowledge of current disease states and local trends." LINK TO CDC REPORTING GUIDANCE or CDC VIDEO EXPLANATION

As alluded to in the article you linked, the CDC guidance also allows for reporting of "presumed" COVID deaths. But, again, that is not any death where a patient was presumed to have COVID. That is still only to be used where a physician has made a medical judgment that COVID was probably a cause of the death: "In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely. However, please note that testing for COVID–19 should be conducted whenever possible."

The quote in your article as a basis for over counting is pretty funny to me as well: “I think a lot of clinicians are putting that condition (COVID-19) on death certificates when it might not be accurate because they died with coronavirus and not of coronavirus," Well, good for that one person for "thinking" that. Doesn't necessarily make it true, even if there is some anecdotal evidence.

I think most people on both sides of the political aisle consider Snopes a pretty reliable source: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cdc-guidelines-covid19/

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I think most people on both sides of the political aisle consider Snopes a pretty reliable source: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cdc-guidelines-covid19/

No, we don't.

That snopes article doesn't address the original point. Remember the CDC guidance can result in states reporting "those who died “with” COVID-19 have been included in the count with those who died “of” COVID-19." This is in the official COVID-19 death count, not what is on the death certificates. That is a completely separate issue - what is put on a death certificate for a primary and secondary cause of death.

 

[GTRX7]

No, we don't.

That snopes article doesn't address the original point. Remember the CDC guidance can result in states reporting "those who died “with” COVID-19 have been included in the count with those who died “of” COVID-19." This is in the official COVID-19 death count, not what is on the death certificates. That is a completely separate issue - what is put on a death certificate for a primary and secondary cause of death.

Please share that actual state guidance your conclusion is based on, and not the quote of a single doctor from an article who said "I think" before asserting your conclusion might be the case.

And, if you don't think Snopes is a pretty fair and unbiased fact checking source, I just don't know what to tell you. I need to leave this thread. Way way too many biased and preconceived notions of what people want to believe, instead of discussion of actual facts.

 

[cyclejacket]

Just watched some of George Floyd's funeral. I couldn't believe there were like several hundred people there from the looks of the church. I thought funerals were outlawed, so I looked up the regulations right now in Minnesota. Funerals are supposed to be limited to 25% capacity or 250, with 6 foot separation between households according to this: https://www.mnfuneral.org/page/coronavirus

So I guess these regulations only apply to whoever the state wants it to apply to, because they are not following any of those regulations. It seems like the entire lot of regulations on society with regards to social distancing and everything else are just being completely ignored with these protests. Which is fine, I guess in the future we all just need to know we can pick and choose whatever we want to do anyway.

Not sure why you think there is any hypocrisy involved in how these situations are handled: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2020/06/05/gretchen-whitmer-photo-n2570103'

Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, who enforced some of the most strict lockdown orders in the nation, was seen protesting the death of George Floyd in police custody on Thursday, disregarding social distancing guidelines and surrounded by people who were not wearing masks.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Please share that actual state guidance your conclusion is based on, and not the quote of a single doctor from an article who said "I think" before asserting your conclusion might be the case.

And, if you don't think Snopes is a pretty fair and unbiased fact checking source, I just don't know what to tell you. I need to leave this thread. Way way too many biased and preconceived notions of what people want to believe, instead of discussion of actual facts.

Sigh. What I said was Snopes on that page wasn't addressing the point at hand. We're not debating what's on death certificates. We're debating what's included in the overall COVID-19 death count. I've already linked to the information.

You're furious that people don't believe in actual facts, but you're furious about facts that aren't related to the current discussion. You gotta slow down just a bit.

Here is guidance from the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html
"A confirmed case or death is defined by meeting confirmatory laboratory evidence for COVID-19."

 

[Milwaukee]

Lmao

 

[684Bee]

Lmao

The hypocrisy and double standard over this is so glaring. Just before the protests, you were endangering others’ lives if you gathered in public. Now, it’s ok, because....well, ummm....

 

[ncjacket79]

The hypocrisy and double standard over this is so glaring. Just before the protests, you were endangering others’ lives if you gathered in public. Now, it’s ok, because....well, ummm....

So what would you suggest? Trying to arrest all protesters who don’t wear masks or social distance? I don’t know that I’ve seen any governors or mayors encouraging people to protest, they are trying to make the best of the situation and not make it worse.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

So what would you suggest? Trying to arrest all protesters who don’t wear masks or social distance? I don’t know that I’ve seen any governors or mayors encouraging people to protest, they are trying to make the best of the situation and not make it worse.

If you’re not willing to enforce your own laws and regulations, then why have them? Or even worse, only enforce them for certain people but not others. That’s ironically injustice.

 

[Jim Prather]

Apparently protests and riots are fine, but church services are a menace to society.

 

[ncjacket79]

If you’re not willing to enforce your own laws and regulations, then why have them? Or even worse, only enforce them for certain people but not others. That’s ironically injustice.

It’s just reality. If most people stay at home it’s easy to deal with those who won’t. It also means most people agree with the rules or are at least not bothered enough to protest. With the protests no government can enforce rules the citizens en masse decide not to obey without military intervention. You have to decide which is more of a problem, massive military crackdowns or the fallout from widespread disobedience.

 

[GoldZ]

You mean the tests and studies in Lancet? You might want to read this

In an open letter to the Lancet’s editors and the study’s authors, some 120 doctors, statisticians and epidemiologists write that the headlines about the study “have caused considerable concern to participants and patients enrolled in randomized controlled trials” evaluating the drugs. Thus many researchers have scrutinized the data, and the “scrutiny has raised both methodological and data integrity concerns.”-WSJ, 6/2/2020

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-la...arial-drugs-11591053222?mod=opinion_lead_pos5

Why is it that so many gullible people think that #science is settled and incontrovertible? There remains so much to learn about the human body, the virus, etc etc etc (same thing with climate change, and many other issues where one side screams #science all the time). I work in the field of chemistry. I know how much we DON'T know. You'd be shocked at how many new ideas and applications are being found every day.

You do realize what Lancet has now done....right? They have been all over the map on this---yes--no--yes--and now no. And people thought Fauci was a flipper! Well, actually he has been. It's the nature of this novel virus, so us msg brd docs need to stfu.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Hot off the inside press, I have a good friend who does daily call back COVID-19 test results for Charleston County. She said a high number of the new tests are mostly 20-24 year olds who reported being at the protests and out and about partying/bars/restaurants. Look at this trend. If these people don’t end up in the hospital because of their young age, we will be well on our way to herd immunity soon. If they do end up in the hospital, we’ll likely be walking back restrictions soon to stay under hospital capacity. But the larger point here is that you can expect similar spikes around the country from these protests (and returning more to regular life) over the next week or so, depending on how long the protests keep at it.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

So what would you suggest? Trying to arrest all protesters who don’t wear masks or social distance? I don’t know that I’ve seen any governors or mayors encouraging people to protest, they are trying to make the best of the situation and not make it worse.

Some of those same politicians were endorsing, if not enforcing, arresting people for not wearing masks or engaging in social distancing. So now it's ok, huh? Can you spell H Y P O C R I S Y ?

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Apparently protests and riots are fine, but church services are a menace to society.

Unless that church service is the funeral of a "celebrity". Don't get me wrong; I am not demeaning George Floyd or the fact that he was murdered, but the same rules should have been followed for his funeral that are in place for other gatherings and the funerals of other people not being used by the left to justify their hypocrisy.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Well, isn't this interesting? The highly touted Lancet study on hydroxychloroquine turns out to be bogus, and Lancet has withdrawn the study.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article243276796.html

 

[GT_EE78]

Hot off the inside press, I have a good friend who does daily call back COVID-19 test results for Charleston County. She said a high number of the new tests are mostly 20-24 year olds who reported being at the protests and out and about partying/bars/restaurants. Look at this trend. If these people don’t end up in the hospital because of their young age, we will be well on our way to herd immunity soon. If they do end up in the hospital, we’ll likely be walking back restrictions soon to stay under hospital capacity. But the larger point here is that you can expect similar spikes around the country from these protests (and returning more to regular life) over the next week or so, depending on how long the protests keep at it.

LOL , maybe protesters won't take hydroxycloroquine.LOL

 

[GT_EE78]

now they fire bombed the cops thread, geez

 

[ncjacket79]

Some of those same politicians were endorsing, if not enforcing, arresting people for not wearing masks or engaging in social distancing. So now it's ok, huh? Can you spell H Y P O C R I S Y ?

I guess I missed it but who was arrested for not wearing masks?